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ACE_JackalBark

The Talent System - Official Discussion Thread

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On 11/21/2018 at 12:24 PM, ShadowwBoi13 said:

Also quick question. Arent Disciplines supposed to eventually be worked into Runecrafting and be  craftable with an actual resource cost? So with the current set up of not being able to remove disciplines, wouldnt that mean any time someone was finally able to get a better stat Disc they would have to completely remake their character and remake every single discipline they already had? Then after that have to re level their vessel just to be able to slot in the discs? 

I don't think this is a bad thing, considering that choosing to replace vessels is the only sink in the necromancy vessel economy, and destroying discs is the only sink in the disc economy.

This necessitates players have multiple reasons to want to do these things, as the only other alternative is to have vessels and discs decay, which is a step too far consider they're the framework upon which all of the decaying gear is laid.

If I have to choose between having more reasons to choose to destroy discs and vessels, or having discs and vessels decay, I definitely choose the former.


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7 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

I don't think this is a bad thing, considering that choosing to replace vessels is the only sink in the necromancy vessel economy, and destroying discs is the only sink in the disc economy.

This necessitates players have multiple reasons to want to do these things, as the only other alternative is to have vessels and discs decay, which is a step too far consider they're the framework upon which all of the decaying gear is laid.

If I have to choose between having more reasons to choose to destroy discs and vessels, or having discs and vessels decay, I definitely choose the former.

I think you missed the part where disciplines aren't currently removable. If they're craftable with varying stats, that means any time you slot a discipline you are committing to that (likely suboptimal) stat line until you make a new vessel. That's a terrible system. It's not such a big deal for less permanent vessels where you can just slot anything, but when you get a good vessel that you want to keep you're encouraged to essentially never slot a discipline until you find a perfect one. 99% of the time it creates a lose/lose situation where you either never apply a disc or give in and apply one you don't want.

Craftable with set stats is fine, but variable stats along with discs being unremovable is unacceptable. 

Edited by Cirrusstrafe

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28 minutes ago, Cirrusstrafe said:

I think you missed the part where disciplines aren't currently removable. If they're craftable with varying stats, that means any time you slot a discipline you are committing to that (likely suboptimal) stat line until you make a new vessel. That's a terrible system. It's not such a big deal for less permanent vessels where you can just slot anything, but when you get a good vessel that you want to keep you're encouraged to essentially never slot a discipline until you find a perfect one. 99% of the time it creates a lose/lose situation where you either never apply a disc or give in and apply one you don't want.

Craftable with set stats is fine, but variable stats along with discs being unremovable is unacceptable. 

Yeah, I agree with that logic as well. I think they made that decision to support the necromancy economy - but at the expense of the reasons you mentioned above. My addition is that if disciplines are also a craftable item it may make sense to make the disciplines "unsocketable". That seems like a fair compromise that would 1) Benefit those who make disciplines and make it a popular trade, 2) Still allow necromancy to be relevant due to the improved vessel system, and 3) Still allow diversity between characters. As a final thought, they could make that compromise but still make it necessary to contribute a talent point in order to "unlock" a discipline slot - but still make it where you can change that discipline if necessary while still retaining the talent point spent.

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3 hours ago, Cirrusstrafe said:

I think you missed the part where disciplines aren't currently removable. 

Where is this coming from? They can still be removed in 5.8. Did ACE say that is going away?


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7 minutes ago, Jah said:

Where is this coming from? They can still be removed in 5.8. Did ACE say that is going away?

Yeah I believe once you have to put talent points into disciplines they won't let you remove them. That's not in for 5.8 though but I believe is coming in the near future. 


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25 minutes ago, Jah said:

Where is this coming from? They can still be removed in 5.8. Did ACE say that is going away?

Live stream Q&A at this point.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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3 hours ago, Cirrusstrafe said:

I think you missed the part where disciplines aren't currently removable. If they're craftable with varying stats, that means any time you slot a discipline you are committing to that (likely suboptimal) stat line until you make a new vessel. That's a terrible system. It's not such a big deal for less permanent vessels where you can just slot anything, but when you get a good vessel that you want to keep you're encouraged to essentially never slot a discipline until you find a perfect one. 99% of the time it creates a lose/lose situation where you either never apply a disc or give in and apply one you don't want.

Craftable with set stats is fine, but variable stats along with discs being unremovable is unacceptable. 

 You can see why they would be locked in, from a technical side. Keeping the talents after changing the disc, the system would lose some of it's charm.

The game has too much variance. Does everything really need to go from 1-1000? The games needs to hone in on what should be highly variable and what should be static.

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Considering how hard to get Discs were said to be planned to be, I don't think this will be a issue. I doubt we will see people with acess to discs which are only marginally better than the previous version easily.

No one will use a disc in a vessel only to find the same version slightly better 2 days later. Discs should also follow the color grading so don't go using a white disc in a orange vessel and you should be fine...

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