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Disciplines - Talents : Locked to vessel.   Meaning there is atm no way to redo things unless you relevel with a new vessel.

 

This isnt starting at the end game (as Dur so correctly put it), regardless of how fast you gain xp, regardless of how it can be done - its a major concern for those of us whom join this game at the prospect of avoiding this exact grind.

 

Can it be somewhat avoided?  No most likely not, the skill tree is a good addition and it brings some nice changes.  New options.  More flavor.

 

Being forced to relevel though - that should get changed imo.

 

Make a respec possible. A divine intervention in the beachhead, what ever.  Im sure there are some creative ways of doing this.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Soulreaver

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My post history will reveal multiple posts of me decrying or being wary of any kind of active leveling, but I currently feel like this is something that'll be annoying for maybe a few days or weeks and then something nobody cares about doing for however many months or years we play this game. Considering the sacrifice system will let us use all of the dozens or hundreds of castoff crafted items that are made by factory runs to gain EXP, for all we know it might end up taking minutes to level even purple quality vessels. I'm eager to see how this pans out.

Edited by moneda

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Can you only level of mob till lvl 10 still? cause thats a minor problem tbh if thats the case.

They could add a respec for X gold or X dust or something as an option i guess. Cost more the higher quality the vessel is.

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As moneda, i'm eager to see about the sacrifice of items crafted, if eventually the items flow from factory/guilds/crafters will annihilate the need of xp grind.

But i'm too concerned about this lock behind xp, just let see after some more testing than the snap test.

For the disciplines, in Shadowbane, if you had a character leveled, put disciplines in it and found it was GIMPED, there was no other choice than reroll too, so i'm not really concerned about this. Disciplines are meant to be a choice, actually it's easy to get them because "pre-alpha" but at term it's supposed to be an entire part of the game with risks/rewards.

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I think it is a wise choice for the design of the game. It doesn't allow people to immediately wipe their skills and start over to try something else. Therefore it should add to the diversity of the players and different characters with only putting a minor delay in being able to completely recreate a character build. I don't see any other way to add such variety without putting a minor effort to recreate your character. 

With that said, I would advocate for that skill reset option in the early testing phases to make sure they fully test out all of the possibilities - but removing that feature on later releases of the game.

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4 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

This isnt starting at the end game (as Dur so correctly put it), regardless of how fast you gain xp, regardless of how it can be done - its a major concern for those of us whom join this game at the prospect of avoiding this exact grind.

This ^^

When I backed this game almost 4 years ago the game was sold with passive progression and no grind. First the levels granting stats were introduced, I can live with that,  you can go and play with lower stats and participate in the campaign (this game used to be about campaigns I think). But now with the talents system you start with an useless character without powers until you level up, so go and kill one bazillion boars or whatever or drop 100k gold in the pit before you can start playing. If this is what people asking for active progression want it's ok, but this is not what we bought back in the day.

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One to two days doesnt sound like a lot but for players whom dont have a lot of time at their disposal its a lot longer time frame.  Your 2x 10 hours become my  10 days of 2 hours.  

 

Regardless its still also a huge step away from why many of us signed on - entering the end game from the start. 

 

The game is already a grind in sole respects - this particular grind is just over the top and it influence being able to join the game or not. U -have- to level the vessel for skills.  It has a huge impact.  

 

Having to level up to use skills etc. Come on - this isnt fun.  It is -exactly- what all other games are doing and imo a huge waste of time.  

 

Look I love the game and a lot of 5.8 is showing a huge amount of promise.   This small aspect shouldnt overshadow the fact that its a lot of great work.

 

 

Edited by Soulreaver

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34 minutes ago, Barab said:

One to two days to reach max level inst a grind.

To be fair, this was an estimate for regular vessels. We don't have one for green, blue or purple.

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3 minutes ago, moneda said:

To be fair, this was an estimate for regular vessels. We don't have one for green, blue or purple.

Correct me if I am wrong but in the video he said one to two days with legendary being closer to two days. 

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I don't really see the problem with leveling. We grind for gold, for harvesting leather, so at the same time we will level ;)

Now, we will be able the build a character by making choices which means less generic builds and more flavour and surprises in the game.

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32 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

One to two days doesnt sound like a lot but for players whom dont have a lot of time at their disposal its a lot longer time frame.  Your 2x 10 hours become my  10 days of 2 hours.  

 

Regardless its still also a huge step away from why many of us signed on - entering the end game from the start. 

 

The game is already a grind in sole respects - this particular grind is just over the top and it influence being able to join the game or not. U -have- to level the vessel for skills.  It has a huge impact.  

 

Having to level up to use skills etc. Come on - this isnt fun.  It is -exactly- what all other games are doing and imo a huge waste of time.  

 

Look I love the game and a lot of 5.8 is showing a huge amount of promise.   This small aspect shouldnt overshadow the fact that its a lot of great work.

 

 

I hear ya, I run my own business, shutter my kids back and forth seven days a week either to school, after school activities, or sports so I get it. Let's just see how it plays out. One thing we should focus on in feedback  is more access to gain experience options such as when capturing a POI are we getting experience, when we craft are we getting experience, when we gather are we getting experience, in pvp on death of a enemy are we getting experience etc. Lets help the team with solid feedback. 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

One to two days doesnt sound like a lot but for players whom dont have a lot of time at their disposal its a lot longer time frame.  Your 2x 10 hours become my  10 days of 2 hours.  

 

Regardless its still also a huge step away from why many of us signed on - entering the end game from the start. 

 

The game is already a grind in sole respects - this particular grind is just over the top and it influence being able to join the game or not. U -have- to level the vessel for skills.  It has a huge impact.  

 

Having to level up to use skills etc. Come on - this isnt fun.  It is -exactly- what all other games are doing and imo a huge waste of time.  

 

Look I love the game and a lot of 5.8 is showing a huge amount of promise.   This small aspect shouldnt overshadow the fact that its a lot of great work.

 

 

I mean there is still permanent passive skilltraining. The active skill training is only temporary for a vessel so i think it is not an issue. MMORPGs always have some form of grind so i dont understand your criticism why it is bad for the game. Maybe it is bad for you because it doesn't fit in your gaming schedule because of limited time, but than you have to ask yourself is an mmorpg the right game genre for your limited game time, maybe something more shortterm is better for you. No offense but you can't expect to be good in an mmorpg with very few time invested. I as a mid-hardcore player (i as a student have still very much time for gaming if i want to do it) would be very disgruntled if people get to be very advanced in the game by putting a lot less time in the game but getting easy catch up mechanics and free stuff thrown at them ( I think i would quit cf than). In the end cf is campaign based so maybe there is some time (holidays etc.) where you can play a lot and use the active system, and than there is a periode where you suffer from that because you only can play for 30 mins a day.

I think the talent game is a good addition to the current game and gives a good feel of progression and if you can't benefit from this system you should try to group up form a team and get support or maybe turn down your own expectations a bit and maybe look for a different game. But i am not a fan to simplify the game for people with less time because this people than should have a disadvantage in gameknowledge/personalskillwise and actual ingame progression because of less time doing something usefull ingame.

#nooffense


 
Edited by Kreigon

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I think as long as we can gain experience naturally by just playing the game it will be fine. I would hate to see it be some kind of mindless grind activity to power level vessels up like harvesting trees for wood to turn into arrows to sacrifice like we had before.

The most efficient way also needs to be fun. Gatherers should get XP for hitting nodes. Crafters should get XP for not only crafting items but also for sacrifice. Combat players should get XP from killing monsters, other players, capturing camps/forts/keeps, etc. Who cares if some of this stuff is semi exploitable (like killing an alt character for XP) - it should be pretty fast either way so why does it even matter? If someone wants to spend their time grinding up something as boring as killing an alt character - let them. That's not much different than crafting the same item over and over to sacrifice it.  

There's going to be loopholes in the leveling system. Who cares? Just give many, many different avenues to gain XP so that it's FUN and doesn't feel like a chore for those that don't want to make it one.  

Edited by blazzen

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The problem is this grinding isn't optional because, for example, a druid only have the basic lmb attack and no heals at all so the char is pretty much useless, before you "start playing" you need to level up.

In the video they said around 2 days for a free vessel (how many hours per day?) and more time for higher qualities.

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34 minutes ago, Barab said:

Correct me if I am wrong but in the video he said one to two days with legendary being closer to two days. 

"We were shooting at like 2 days for a White quality vessel... and the Legendary ones are on the far end of that scale of probably many days." ~ 31:27

Who wants to guesstimate what "many days" means? :lol:

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I wouldnt mind seeing a respec but ONLY during this testing phase. Then removing it when game goes live.

 

Maybe 1 respec per week or something like that. So people cant change builds all the time like we used to

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41 minutes ago, Kreigon said:

 Maybe it is bad for you because it doesn't fit in your gaming schedule because of limited time, but than you have to ask yourself is an mmorpg the right game genre for your limited game time,



 

Ive been playing CF for 2 years - choose CF because of their outview : Join the _end_ game day one.

 

So while its good for some its also BS for others.  I could ask the same thing - all those advocating active training for the past months - shouldn’t they have found a game profile to macth - instead of advocate to change this one to suit them and make the game -just- like every other game out there.

#nooffencetaken.

 

Im just debating the issue knowing Im not the only person in this situation - but using personal examples to illustrate points.

 

 

I dont expect to be good with limited time - I think my gameplay will speak for itself - good and bad.  So its off the issue to go down that path.

Edited by Soulreaver

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1 hour ago, Soulreaver said:

Ive been playing CF for 2 years - choose CF because of their outview : Join the _end_ game day one.

I think one of the biggest hurdles to that goal with these new trees, is the discipline unlock. Even running around my EK last night, it was pretty clear that I was not in end game. 

I think the point that the starting point could be too far back is probably valid.  For all we know, they will leave the arrow thing in for white vessels, and whacking a few trees can get you started.

One of the fixes for this however is the sacrifice system.  Day one, you can come into a guild that has a stockpile of sub par leveling gear and be effective.  For all we know, they will leave the arrow thing in for white vessels, and whacking a few trees can get you started, with green vessels needing green items, etc.

Another option would be to have the very first vessel you create, start the game with some levels. I could even see a passive training node like "Head Start", that would give all new vessels say 1 level per pip, for those that want to do multiple experiments. 

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