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Soulreaver

The 5.8 Assassin

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With 5.8 all the different classes have received a new skill tree.  It brings a whole new dimension to builds and how to play a class.  So what I would love to see with this thread is for the sin players to toss up their thoughts on aspects of the tree that could use some attention.  Ideas and thoughts.

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So many abilities gated behind the expansion classes making it a more “forced” way to play a specific sub-class.

 

For specifically the assassin especially their stealth tree is very cut down and the removal of some of the abilities even prevent entering combat from stealth in a “smooth” manner.

The gating of abilities has also prevented doing something depending on which situation you are in.  

- Need a stun to open with? Too bad if you are the wrong advanced class.  Need damage?  Too bad as well.

It removes a lot of the fun - by removing choices you also remove player creativity on how a class could be played.  A shame.

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I would like in general for all the classes to let us mix between trees. At the end they force you to chose between 3 "closed" options intead of opening up the "infinite" portfolio of mixing.

I feel that is not that much choice right now. It might be my limited knowledge of the game.

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Easier said then done tho. The Devs must have some measure of control and allowing anyone acess to everything would have consequences. Mainly nerfing everythin because one or two builds are super OP.

Someone raised an example of the Myrm's whirlwind power where combining the buffs they get from both promotions would be completely broken.

 

I do think they could make promotions themselves more varied tho. At this point there is not really anymore choice after you pick a promotion. It is a complete waste to not buy everything there and -- at least for now -- we have more than enough points to buy the whole thing without looking twice.

Altho to be fair the same is true for the whole talent tree. There really isnt much choices you can actually freely make. A side effect of the line layout they decided to use. Major example are the points you have to waste to get all the minor slots.

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The 8% lifesteal seems to work best for the solo assassin picking of single targets, maybe a player that like to go solo, roaming around without a group or healer, otherwise they lose a bunch of combat abilities.

I think the big question for me is how good will poison be?

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Weapon types hinting what type of weapon you should use with each advanced class.

 

Cutthroat 10% Piercing damage.

Blackguard 10 Slashing

Vandal 10% Crushing...

 

Why not just give the assassin a 10% damage boost in general - remove these boosts adn let ppl invent / creat their own specs based on Weapon Masteries.

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Has anyone come up with any interesting discipline combinations they'd be willing to share?

Black Mask looks like it will be a staple for cutthroats because of Call Darkness (attacks count as attacking from behind, triggering the cutthroat's +damage% modifiers) and the extra crit from Shadows Linger giving you 50% extra crit chance to land some high damage Kidney Shots/Backstabs. Not sure what to pair with it yet, but Agent Provocateur looks like a decent complement to any stealth build (all the more so when targeted AoEs casting is more reliable).

Not sure how viable it would be, but a condi focused vandal with Poisoner or Knife Grinder could also be fun.

 

Edited by Attolis

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On 11/12/2018 at 3:12 PM, Soulreaver said:

Weapon types hinting what type of weapon you should use with each advanced class.

 

Cutthroat 10% Piercing damage.

Blackguard 10 Slashing

Vandal 10% Crushing...

 

Why not just give the assassin a 10% damage boost in general - remove these boosts adn let ppl invent / creat their own specs based on Weapon Masteries.

main reason i can think of if symbolism for other players ill use WoW example here since more people are probaly familiar with it. Lets take paladin for example whats the difference bwteen there 3 main specs (Healer, Dmg/Tank) If they all wore the same armor/weapon type you wouldnt know what one they are which is a little unfair in PvP senarios. You know the paladin with the big 2hder weapon will be wanting to hit you, Healering spec weapon and shield look alot different than those made for tanking with (Most tanking weapons were sword while healing were maces there are some exceptions however they do look different from there general counterparts.)
Crowfall atm there only one type of appearance for armor and weapons atm so there approach for this has been weapons they used or armor they can use.

Giving assasins a 10% dmg accross the board and all look the same is like a Moba where all the assasins classes looked identical but did completely different things/playstyles they wont be fun for the person your attacking cause they have no idea what to expect. atm all they know is your 1 of 4 stealth classes when you ambush them (Cant forget the ranger stealth class)

 

Edited by veeshan

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Attolis, some major changes coming to Disciplines in 6.0. I'd hold off on trying to find good combinations post-talents. It'll be short lived.

I'm hoping for a ton of them to be deleted and replaced with interesting alternatives myself. It could be as minor as a few tweaks though. We know for sure Weapon Disciplines are being deleted in 6.0 though. We also know that players will have access to two gathering and any two of crafting or combat disciplines going forward. Should make for a more diverse field.

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1 hour ago, Scree said:

We also know that players will have access to two gathering and any two of crafting or combat disciplines going forward. Should make for a more diverse field.

Could you elaborate on this? 

Also, what is a combat discipline?  LIke the soon to be legacy Master of Sword,hammer,bow, etc disciplines?

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4 hours ago, Zage said:

Could you elaborate on this? 

Also, what is a combat discipline?  LIke the soon to be legacy Master of Sword,hammer,bow, etc disciplines?

Well, combat discipline is pretty much any discipline focused on making you better at fighting. So, yeah, those would fit.

Gathering Discs are the same. Here:

https://malekai.org/disciplines/connoisseur

Check the disciplines and write 'gathering' on the tags filter for all of them.

Crafting Discs arent a thing yet AFAIK. Should be coming online soon.

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All disciplines should come with a negative impact. 

  • bonus to healing gives a negative combat
  • bonus to range, give a negative to melee
  • bonus to speed gives a negative on speed

Etc. It should be a tough choice, especially for someone wanting to be really good at one thing...because they will be really vulnerable at another.

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I am going to have to politely disagree with the benefits of predetermining weapons for classes/ prestige classes( or whatever they are going to call them now) citing Shadowbane as a model. The beauty of that game was you could spec into absolutely absurd combination with the amount of character customization it had, Warriors for example, could be sword and board, use any two handed weapon, dual wield or even in some cases throw daggers, all of which while not perfectly balances were viable but with the implementation of different disciplines could come out with very unique and sometimes powerful combinations. 

 

It all depends though, my biggest fear with this project regarding skills is that because of the large number and diverse number of choices that some weapons skills will be down right better then others as opposed to being equally powerful but situationally different  (perhaps hammers offer more CC, but daggers offer more DoTs and exposes etc). Shadowbane (while a great game with very fond memories) was a good example of what not to do in this regard, every class would have about about two dozen potential skills to invest in, but there was always a core of 5-8 skills which you couldn't live without (and taking up the vast majority of your available points) thus making the rest novelties as opposed to diverse options.

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On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 2:31 AM, veeshan said:

main reason i can think of if symbolism for other players ill use WoW example here since more people are probaly familiar with it. Lets take paladin for example whats the difference bwteen there 3 main specs (Healer, Dmg/Tank) If they all wore the same armor/weapon type you wouldnt know what one they are which is a little unfair in PvP senarios. You know the paladin with the big 2hder weapon will be wanting to hit you, Healering spec weapon and shield look alot different than those made for tanking with (Most tanking weapons were sword while healing were maces there are some exceptions however they do look different from there general counterparts.)
Crowfall atm there only one type of appearance for armor and weapons atm so there approach for this has been weapons they used or armor they can use.

Giving assasins a 10% dmg accross the board and all look the same is like a Moba where all the assasins classes looked identical but did completely different things/playstyles they wont be fun for the person your attacking cause they have no idea what to expect. atm all they know is your 1 of 4 stealth classes when you ambush them (Cant forget the ranger stealth class)

 

This is a terrible comparison for two reasons, one it isn't 100% true in wow (mage, warlock, sub/as rogues, etc look the same) where depending on the tier and expansion holy can look like either like ret or prot. The other major reason is that functionally a ret paly and holy paly fulfill two different rolls. You play against a damage dealer differently than a healer. Here especially with the assassin all three are damage focused (with the blackguard being a little more cc heavy and durable). While each style will require different approaches to counter the best, they all function in a similar role so it is much more important to see the class rather than sub class.

I think it is around cutting down middle ground builds. If you look at the specific weapon trainings (one handed weapons for mace, sword, etc.) they tend to line up to certain play styles. Crushing in general tends to focus on cc where as slashing is damage. It seems like they are trying to focus players into certain styles like pure cc for blackguard rather than letting someone choose a sword and find a middle ground of damage and cc.

By far the worse case of this is the knight where you must wield certain types of weapons to proc their sub class passives. I would welcome these restrictions being removed to open up more gameplay choices.

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