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Welcome, as of today and until further notice this is THE Crowfall mining thread, where we discuss mining, underground peril, and buried valuables.  Naturally we will be talking about the newly revealed voxel farm technology, and we will  be sharing ideas, good or bad, on how to make a fun and dirty mining experience for the average player.  Naturally, everything we speculate will be friendly suggestions for the Devs *wink* *wink*.
 
I will be dividing the initial discussion into sub topics in order to make this as easy to read as possible.  Sadly though, I can't find the "anchor" code for the index, so you'll have to scroll down for the time being.  Also, don't get scared by my lengthy mess, you can read one section and respond to that while ignoring the others, we must all contribute our opinions so the Devs can see into our hearts.  Don't shut up, I want to make mining a popular activity.
 
Index:
1)  Voxel Tech and Resource Distribution
2)  Character Fatigue
3)  Tools and Infrastructure

4)  Availability and Mobility
 

1) Voxel Tech and Resource Distribution

 

Ores, just like any other resource, will be distributed on a procedurally generated map.  Resources distributed on a terrain that was created through algorithms, is most conveniently distributed through algorithms.  The potential problems and concerns that come with this method are fairness, activity variety, and freedom of location.

 

Fairness.  Resources, in this case ores, should be distributed in a manner where players have relatively equal opportunity to find and extract basic ores.  I don't see any immediate flaws in this aspect when it comes to a procedural distribution though.

 

Activity variety.  The process of mining should be a varied and engaging.  While the classic raise mining pick, dig, repeat is a fair start, I would appreciate a more complex activity that takes the form of a project, and an individual or collective investment.  After the initial layer of mining, ores are gathered, the land is barren of wealth, the players wish to acquire more but do not wish to hunt for another location.  The most desired course of action is to dig deeper, a second layer of ores are waiting to be found, but they are outside of the miner's reach.  Now our mining friends must begin constructing tunnels, ladders, and perhaps carts to go deeper and deeper into the earth to plunder its riches.  Now miners have a lot more different stuff to think about, the construction of infrastructure to extract more riches, as well as doing some good old fashioned picking.  I will continue the talk about mine construction in "Tools and Infrastructure".

 

Freedom of location.  Can we dig anywhere or will Devs slap our qrists if we choose the wrong spot?  How limited should digging spots be in order to balance the intensely powerful power of mining.  Freedom is nice, but we don't want mining to dominate the economy.  Plus, PvPers need to join in on the fun, I mean steal all my stuff.

 

2)  Character Fatigue

 

Mining can be a very rewarding economic activity.  So rewarding that a player may consider, no...tempted to, no...be unable to stop mining without rest.  Mining turned to grinding.  An infamous aspect of the harvesting MMORPG profession.  What problems does this bring to Crowfall and its denizens?  The player gets bored.  The economy grows too fast.  Wait, aren't resources in Crowfall supposed to be PvP property?

 

No one likes limits, me included.  But I want to talk about limits, limits that will encourage the maintenance of mining facilities, limits that will ensure the market doesn't become overly saturated with resources from one dude mindlessly picking for hours on end, limits that will make PvP a primary factor in resource ownership.  A valve, a switch that will control sucking the land dry and allow time for RP and PvP, heck, even time for other crafting professions.

 

Should characters be limited to a certain amount of resource extraction?  Should it be a hard limit?  Should it be a soft limit? (Debuffs that reduce Strength, debuffs that increase chance of extraction failure, debuffs which weaken hitpoints)

 

This is a topic that heavily cripples one player or the other depending on the decision, should crafters be given the ability to extract significant amounts of resources?  Is the danger of being totally robbed enough to limit their greedy activities?  I think the idea of characters getting tired is fun.

 

3)  Tools and Infrastructure

 

Continuing from item #1.  When digging below the earth, the subterranean, players must construct artificial corridors and pockets in order to squeeze between the rocks and rob nature of her loot.  How expensive should such infrastructure be?  How much material should corridors require?  How long should corridors take to build?  How long will it take to transport lumber to a mine to construct the shafts?  Materials and time are the two resources which restrict mine construction, while they grant access to more ore quantity, and quality, how long should it take for players to mold, break, and manipulate the terrain?  Should players be able to take down rock with the touch of their finger, or should it take a solid amount of picking, and some darn good luck for the rock to give in?  Should some rockbeds be impervious to low quality mining picks?  Should resources be locked behind a tech barrier which can only be opened through economic progression?

 

I personally hope that the process of digging deeper is a lengthy and laborious one, it adds meaning for the crafting showoff, a timing window for the loot-thirsty ganker, and a buffer for the growth of the player economy, which does not wish to become strong until much later in the Campaign.  The economy is much more fun when everyone is piss poor.

 

I became infatuated with the idea of mining because of Wakfu, a small Sandbox MMORPG which had an interesting mining mechanic.  Mining nodes were hidden behind rocks which players had to break using bombs in order to access higher quality nodes.  These bombs required rare resources, making rock breaking (The equivalent of mining in Wakfu) an expensive and valuable action.  Because it took a variable amount to take down layers of rocks depending on how thick they were, breaking rocks took a little more thinking than normal to get the most mineral node access for your money (Bombs).  I would like to see a similar resource access dynamic in Crowfall, where we work hard and intelligently to dig, dig, and profit.

 

4)  Availability and Mobility

 

Mostly the same talk in the previous item.  How easy should it be to take apart the voxel world?  I want the terrain in Crowfall to be friggin hard, not Minecraft's liberal displacement of matter.  Characters should be limited by their [im]mortal body, a puny humanoid cannot take down mountains and yell timber, it takes many Termites to take down a tree, and likewise should it takes many characters to carve and shape the land.  When mining underground, players shouldn't be progressing that quickly.  But don't take me wrong, neither should they progress too slowly.

 

My idea is this, hit the deck, the nutjob has an idea.  Make the bedrock, the layers, harder to access, through soft and hard limits, as the player reaches deeper levels of underground goodness.  The initial digging shouldn't be like digging knife into hot butter though.  Let's make the players work for it, and as they dig deeper, it gets increasingly harder, even impossible if you chose a bad spot.  Mining should be about effort, luck, and critical thinking.  Should I mine here in the plains where I won't find much and will probably reach a dead end?  Or should I craft in the mountains where there is harder level for entry but have the chance to coem across a concealed twisted cavern entrance?

 

I want some hard rock.  I want strong burly characters to be the miners.  Grrr.

 

Mobility.  Rocks are heavy.  I say we use Caravans with personal player Mounts.  That's right, shameless self promotion.  Just like we have seen in the Caravan concept art banner in the Economy update, we want beasts of burden to do our job and to keep us company, and to steal.  Why must is always be stolen?  I can feel the rush.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Very beautiful post and very good thinking, i want to make a suggestion.

 

I believe that landscape should have its own value aswell. If every land has their own advantages over another, this will greatly increase economy and trade between guilds.

 

 

Fairness.  Resources, in this case ores, should be distributed in a manner where players have relatively equal opportunity to find and extract basic ores.  I don't see any immediate flaws in this aspect when it comes to a procedural distribution though.

 

 

 

Instead, if mountains were richer with ore, yet forests had higher quality wood , if the fish were best food in game to take advantage of , if the herbs in one land would could be used for much greater alchemy and so on. I believe it would be very interesting. Even as the world gets more dangerous. You would have to travel, to get those valuable end-game resources. 

 

Yet this should not chance the tides completely. Every land should have wood and ores. But the end game items and special advantages that will make every nation have advantage over other nations in one part. 

 

I also think that amount of national advantage should increase as the tiers increase, as world gets more dangerous with hunger, traveling becomes difficult. the profit should increase. As the other nation will become more desperate with one kind of resource. Which probably will force players to forge safe-travelling routes between kingdoms. And perhaps players will even create neutral trade guilds. No benefit comes without risk, this also means more bandits.

Edited by Navhkrin

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i can fully agree to your stated points,most important thing is i think a voxel based world,that naturally expands in all 3 dimensions,to make everything else even possible.

 

but i would suggest one change in your overall very good concept.

i would let the spawn of resources be calculated via probabilities,to ensure randomness that is at the same time somewhat controllable.

lets assume a region got certain probabilities that resource spawn,for example 5% iron,10% wood,5%copper.to kep it simple il just use 3 different resources now,in the actual game it should be of course much more.

 

now that region is divided into smaller districts,like a mountain range a riverbed or whatever.each of this district got his own probabilities,that more or less fit the region probabilities over all,but still with exceptions.

for instance the mountain district in that region,would have 20% probability for iron to spawn per voxel,now take the average between the region probabilities and the district probabilities and you got the final probability for resources to spawn in a district.

we can now roughly estimate that 15%(average between 10% and 20%) of this mountain is made up out of iron ore.

but to enhance this system you will need a second modifier to change probabilities.

if a voxel has turned into a resource the probability for that same resource to spawn in all adjacent voxels should be increased,to simulate any accumulations of resources(rich ore veins,forests,seas and rivers)

so thanks to this,that mountain will probably have more than 15% of iron.

 

at the same time this modifier allows for formerly rich deposits to deplete to a point where they may become unprofitable to operate further,since harnessing this riches in an organized manner,will come with quite a lot of fixed and variable costs.

 

why would they deplete?

 

well lets stay with the iron ore mountain example.

at the start there will be a lot of iron there,people harness it in masses.at the end there isn't a single voxel or just very few voxels with iron left,thus the increased chance for new iron to spawn in adjacent provinces has less and less impact.every time that process is repeated the amount of ore inside that mountain will get less,until its really just the 1/6 that we roughly estimated at start.

on the other hand this would also allow to enrich such a deposits.

if you would just mine the stone and earth around the iron voxels,so they would have to respwan ,and thus get the increased probability because iron voxels are adjacent.

 

to make it easier for people who want to open up a gatherers business,there should be passive skills available,that allow people to get a glimpse of the probabilities for a certain type of resource in a district.

 

i also talked about that this topic in my threat about economy

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2055-general-suggestions-focus-on-economy/

Edited by kampfbock

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Crowfall_ResourceMapConcept.jpg

 

From this image, we can know that there will be 3 types of mining/resource "structures": Quarrys, Mines and Lumber Mill.

 

We don't know if there will be more yet.

 

From here I will speculate a lot so don't take what you read as a real thing for the game. And I know is just a concept art the map, but the sizes are probably more or less as I would expect them to be in the game.

 

The procedural map generation I expect it to be not fully random. I mean, I expect that the devs will build/design big zones that then will be put in random places from eachother.

 

They might pre-desing some quarry zones, and then the algorithm place them over the map.

 

If we see the image of the map, we can guess that the size of the map is pretty big.

 

I more or less expect that each square is about 1min mount trip maybe a bit less. In the Centaur Pre alpha footage we can se a Stronghold, at least what it seems like a Stronghold, It seems big, probably it takes around 30-1min to go from one edge to the other.

 

In the left bottom you can see the Red Mine and Fort, I expect a 1min or 1.5min to get from the Fort to the Mine, that means supply caravans will take aprox 4-5 min to get from the Mine to the Fort, and another 10-15min to the Stronghold.

 

That adds really interesting strategys to move your suplies between structures, oportunities to ganks, etc.

 

Going back to the mining thing, I don't expect ores all over the map as tend to happen in other MMOs, I expect that the most part of the ores/minerals will be concentrate in the Quarrys/Mines positions as you see in the map, there will probably be some random ores around the map, but if you wan to gather resources to keep a Stronhold or a Fort, you will need to build/conquer a mine/quarry, that will allow for more faster and massive gathering.

 

About how mining will work, I expect 2 systems, one for Mines (usual mining, people with picks) and a different one for Quarrys, maybe more automatized.

 

I think they won't allow ground destruction in all the areas. People running around with picks destroying the enviroment seems a pretty bad Idea for me in this game, it is fine in Landmark were the ground heal over time and it is just a building game, but this is a pvp game, and they need to handle the voxel destruction really carefully.

 

That is why I expect ores not to be in random areas but in concrete areas where people will mine/are allowed to mine.

 

The last thing I want to say is that gathering resources shouldn't be something that needs people 100% focusing their time in doing it, of course should be people that is better at mining/crafting, but basicly the system should work for the purporse of adding strategy to the game so people have a reason to fight over those places.

 

The mines/quarrys/lumber mills need to be important for a guild that hold and stronghold, so when they are not beeing sieged they still need to fight over other objectives, keepen the routes safes for the ores to come to the stronghold because they need them, but they shouldnt be 100 focused on mining.

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So I just read this from the Economy FAQ

 

2. Where do the resources come from?

Resources can be harvested from the environment, and sometimes found on certain monsters.  Materials come from particular types of POIs (Points of Interest) called resource factories: Quarries, Lumber Mills, and Mines.

 

So yeah, kind of what I was thinking, if you want to build siege stuff and city stuff you will need to conquer Quarries, Lumber Mills and Mines. But there will be still other ways to gather resources from monsters and enviroment to craft the equipment. I should read this before my other post.

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I really hope we can hire laborers from the towns to mine ore, chop wood, and cut stone block. Then players can spend more time in PvP and Crafting as is their wont. 

 

That said, a player with mining skill should have equal prospecting skill, in case we can find veins of ore and dig new mines.

 

Extracting ore from a mine should also produce some stone resource as well as a by-product. Another additional benefit to mining veins of ore is that it hollows out potentially useful structures. We will also need to consume lumber as the mine progresses to shore up the ceilings.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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I really hope we can hire laborers from the towns to mine ore, chop wood, and cut stone block. Then players can spend more time in PvP and Crafting as is their wont. 

 

That said, a player with mining skill should have equal prospecting skill, in case we can find veins of ore and dig new mines.

 

Extracting ore from a mine should also produce some stone resource as well as a by-product. Another additional benefit to mining veins of ore is that it hollows out potentially useful structures. We will also need to consume lumber as the mine progresses to shore up the ceilings.

 

I really like this.

 

Especially the last part, about having by-products of mining and consuming lumber (and other materials, even) to progress mines and such.

 

This will give a more definitive role to mining/ crafting guilds, by allowing them to really dedicate their time to their work - and seeing the fruits of their labor - not just in the items they craft.

 

Seeing a mine winding all the through a mountain because you dug it and reinforced it? Priceless.


"The blade isn't the only part of a sword."

9 years of Ragnarok Online, 9 years of EVE Online -- Beta tester of Planetside 2, ESO, RIFT, Warhammer Online, SWTOR, and Elite: Dangerous.

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         These are just some things I thought of while reading the posts on this topic. What if the mine/quarry/lumber mill POI are only locations that have been discovered by the inhabitants of the world before the players get there, and the player can find land that just appears to be just like any other areas/land on the surface but is another place fit for a mine/quarry? Kind of like an invisible heat-map of resource concentration that the player can build up a new mine/quarry on and these areas will likely have better resources and/or more of a given resource. Presumably the player would find these hidden resource caches with some kind of Survey/Prospecting skill and these areas would be fairly rare to make the player need to invest potentially a lot of time for long-term profit. This would go well with some of the other ideas suggested here like using lumber to shore-up the ceilings and walls in mines but to build the entire mine rather than just improve it. This may give players/guilds incentive to commit resources to areas that may not be easy to defend or may be kind of far away from their main stronghold, this would make players weigh risk vs. reward and danger vs.profit when considering weather or not to commit what would likely be a sizable about of resources of various types of other resources they may need to be transported to the new site. Maybe mines/quarries/lumber mills that already have established infrastructure (weather or not player built or pre-existing) could be able to hire NPCs to gather resources passively for the player/guild for some gold(or whatever the currency will be) and you can hire some NPCs that will cost more gold per a predetermined period of time but they will be able to gather more of the given resource a day(like more experienced = better gathering ability but their wage goes up). It would add some interesting play scenarios if, say, a guild (Guild A) commits resources to a hugely profitable new site, but its a ways away from their nearest stronghold and another, closer, guild (Guild B )takes note of this, and waits for guild A to finish constructing the initial infrastructure for the mine or quarry or whatever it is and guild B sends in a group of PvP/Seige players to flip the fresh site and its new infrastructure for them and because guild A could not react in time due to distance, poor organisation or communication delay, and guild B is allowed to pluck the fruit of guild A's labor and resources. This scenario is reminiscent of some of EVE online's gameplay  and is something i have always been attracted to, the waiting for a time to strike in order to reap the rewards of another's hard work, and i feel if things at all similar to this are allowed to or even possible to have happen it adds a great deal of depth and interesting gameplay. I really, really hope something along these lines can happen in crow fall. I know some of the things i said here were already said, or at least touched upon by others here previously, but i felt the need to add my thoughts to them and also because i'd like to know what others think of these ideas.

Edited by DeusRex

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The devs already said the mines and quarries and lumbermills will "generate" wood so i think it's safe to say that hard resources will be generated there only to have to be loaded on a caravan and brought back.

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The devs already said the mines and quarries and lumbermills will "generate" wood so i think it's safe to say that hard resources will be generated there only to have to be loaded on a caravan and brought back.

 

I truly hope that isn't the case. I realize it may be. I just... really, really hope that gathering requires more activity than waiting and loading. Especially if full-time gatherer is going to be a viable role. I get that there's still strategy involved, but, anything that you can do full-time (by design -- you can stand around staring at walls full-time, if you so choose, but I'm not arguing for something like that) should really allow some kind of performance-based variance, instead of PURELY strategic choices indirectly pertaining to the actual process itself.

 

Also, what if there were underground dangerous areas (crypts with undead and such, for a cliche example), that you could only get to via tunneling to them? Imagine Minecraft, only, "Oh crap! I just opened up a tunnel into a big, underground network of catacombs, and now things are REALLY not happy! I'm going to need some reinforcements from the city to continue mining here!"

 

It would add another element to both exploration, AND to the maintenance of mining/harvesting operations. Not only would you have to defend your operation from the enemy (players), but you'd have to deal with the dangers of these subterranean chambers.


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...

Fairness.  Resources, in this case ores, should be distributed in a manner where players have relatively equal opportunity to find and extract basic ores.  I don't see any immediate flaws in this aspect when it comes to a procedural distribution though.

...

 

A PvP war on a randomly generated dying world.... the only fairness we should expect... is an equal opportunity to PvP... live or die.

 

I don't expect nor hope for anything fair beyond that.  Challenge accepted!


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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A PvP war on a randomly generated dying world.... the only fairness we should expect... is an equal opportunity to PvP... live or die.

Well, in all fairness (see what I did there? :) ), that's what that segment of sneaky_squirrel's quote is talking about.  If team A spawns into a meadow filled with plants that grow solid-iron flowers every 5 minutes, and team B spawns into a desert with not a rock in sight, you don't get much of an equal opportunity to PvP. Team A gets oodles of ways to make you dead, and Team B just gets a lot of ways to die.


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Well, in all fairness (see what I did there? :) ), that's what that segment of sneaky_squirrel's quote is talking about.  If team A spawns into a meadow filled with plants that grow solid-iron flowers every 5 minutes, and team B spawns into a desert with not a rock in sight, you don't get much of an equal opportunity to PvP. Team A gets oodles of ways to make you dead, and Team B just gets a lot of ways to die.

 

No, Team A will eventually discover Team B's mining site and there will be some great PvP there!

 

There will be quite a bit of time in a fresh CW before the resources are needed.  Enough time for scouting, claiming, and battling for locations.  This will be followed by fortifying... which new armor may be needed around this time as well.  So, it's not necessary to have equal fairness locations.

 

If you go back to the discussions where that original map concept originated, Ace WANTS to see players to locate and fight for the most optimally placed POIs.  They're still randomly placed and not all fair either.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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I think your idea of fairness keeps leaping far broader than what I'm trying to touch on. You wouldn't give Team A a population cap of 100 players, while allowing Team B to have 1,000 players, would you? No. So, you'll want to give both teams the "same" (not mathematically exact numbers, but just, in general...) opportunity for basic resources.

 

What I mean isn't "Just make sure they get a bunch of free resources without any trouble." But, as I said above, you wouldn't want to start a campaign with Team A's stronghold surrounded by 77 mines, while Team B is in the complete opposite corner of the map, and there are only 3 POIs (much less mines, specifically) within 10 miles of them.

 

The PvP that occurred by Team B's lack of choice to do anything but try and assault Team A's conveniently located resources would be anything but "great."

 

That isn't to say there shouldn't be lots of fighting over a lot of the resources. But, there's a difference between "you just start with everything conveniently located within your keep's walls," and "one team can't find any resources unless they jog around within range of the other team's archers atop the keep walls."


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I don't think there will be mines in the traditional MMO sense.  I believe they're going more for POIs with extractors, rather than nodes that you pick axe.  You will need caravans to move the extracted resource in bulk.

 

It's a PvP sandbox with these POIs randomly placed throughout the world.  Expect that there may be CWs where some POIs are optimally placed, while others not so much.  Regardless of placement, players will be fighting to control the POIs... or at least they should be.

 

I suppose that ... with the fact that we all start the CWs in complete fog-of-war, that we all have an innate fairness to locate and use the POIs... as long as you can PvP control the location.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Yeah, I'm not so sure there will be mines like that either (but I hope so... well, not quite in the "traditional MMO sense," but... more manual/active control over harvesting of resources).

 

And I understand the POIs aren't going to all be perfectly measured as equidistant from each team's starting position. That's not what balance is about. It's simply about preventing significant imbalance. The example I gave is obvious imbalance, not "Oh no, technically Team A had 4 mines that were a little closer to them, while Team B only had like 3 mines, and had to go farther and fight Team A for extra mines!". But, the point remains that, some kind of balance has to be in place in the "random" spawning of POIs, or you'll have that rare situation where Team A can get 10 mines up and running in 3 seconds, and Team B has to search for an hour before they even find a single mine.

 

PvP isn't any fun when the foundation of it isn't fairness. Sure, you're allowed to tip things one way or the other, via your actions. But, even if everything were perfectly balanced (I mean "perfectly" as in "mathematically, everything is equal," and not "balanced in the best way"), Team A could just rush for one of Team B's mines to gain an early advantage, much like how players will head to far-away expansion areas in strategy games, and that would still allow imbalance to exist in the game. But, you want the foundation to be pretty close to even. Team A gets a mountain? Maybe Team B gets a moat. A moat isn't exactly the same defense as a mountain, but it's blatantly not one Team getting a defense while the other is just down in a hole or something, granting any attacker an advantage just for attacking.


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... But, you want the foundation to be pretty close to even. Team A gets a mountain? Maybe Team B gets a moat. A moat isn't exactly the same defense as a mountain, but it's blatantly not one Team getting a defense while the other is just down in a hole or something, granting any attacker an advantage just for attacking.

 

I don't think any of that is really necessary.  Players won't enter a CW assigned to a specific POI cluster, they will scout and locate a place to plant.  It's quite possible that one group misses a strategic opportunity on the mountain above them because they wandered too far around and away from it, while another group stumbles across it while scouting down the middle, and seizes it.

 

POIs are all neutral and up for grabs.  If anything, I can see Ace, at the minimum, requiring the 3 different types of POI (resource, respawn, and summoning cricle) located within # radius of each other.  This would ensure that the 3 are at least somewhat clustered in a region.  Sometimes they're close, sometimes the furthest radius distance out.  This would be a decent amount of fairness.

 

We all start blind and eventually discover the world and fight to claim and control POIs, which will support our ability to win the campaign objective.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Not to be the pessimist, but I imagine that mining will not be this complex. In order to maintain that mines are important for the entire campaign and something worth fighting over constantly, they have to be able to generate the same or, at least, similar amounts of resources the entire campaign (at least into Fall and Winter). 

Unless they devoted almost an entire game's resources to creating a mining system that would take several months to set up to reap the entirety of a mine's rewards, this means a simpler system of respawning rewards would be the easiest route to go. 

 

If not, then players would all resource CRUSH during spring and summer and absolutely kill all the resources, leaving Fall and Winter bare. While this would be cool and fit in with the lore of the game, it would kind of out crafters and gatherers for something to do for the entire second half of the Campaign. Unless they were to actually JOIN the fighting that is...


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Not to be the pessimist, but I imagine that mining will not be this complex. In order to maintain that mines are important for the entire campaign and something worth fighting over constantly, they have to be able to generate the same or, at least, similar amounts of resources the entire campaign (at least into Fall and Winter). 

 

Unless they devoted almost an entire game's resources to creating a mining system that would take several months to set up to reap the entirety of a mine's rewards, this means a simpler system of respawning rewards would be the easiest route to go. 

 

If not, then players would all resource CRUSH during spring and summer and absolutely kill all the resources, leaving Fall and Winter bare. While this would be cool and fit in with the lore of the game, it would kind of out crafters and gatherers for something to do for the entire second half of the Campaign. Unless they were to actually JOIN the fighting that is...

 

Ace has mentioned that resources will become more rare through the seasons.  Some have interpreted this as just finite resources that will eventually get fully mined, while others interpret it as a reduction of resource creation.  Regardless, it's up to the guilds/crafters to stockpile resources early and plan their use to make it through winter.  Otherwise, yeah, they may have to join the fight... or they may just log out of the campaign and play in another with their other character.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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