McTan

IMO: the two biggest problems with Crowfall

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Just now, McTan said:

For the last time, my problem is not 4v1 only. It is 4v1 with complete control over when and where a battle (the point of the game) happens. I am saddened by the reading comprehension on this thread. As for me, I'm out.

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Just now, McTan said:

For the last time, my problem is not 4v1 only. It is 4v1 with complete control over when and where a battle (the point of the game) happens. I am saddened by the reading comprehension on this thread. As for me, I'm out.

You all could have recalled, left the keep, sacrificed 1 of the 4 to harass him while the rest escaped, and any number of other things to avoid him all together.  

 

Quote

Art of War:

If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

It's a war game, and part of war is trying to gain control of the when and where a battle happens.

If you had any of the above mentioned counters, the Assassin would have either quit the field or been killed sooner, then you would have had control of the when and where.

 

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

You all could have recalled, left the keep, sacrificed 1 of the 4 to harass him while the rest escaped, and any number of other things to avoid him all together.  

 

It's a war game, and part of war is trying to gain control of the when and where a battle happens.

If you had any of the above mentioned counters, the Assassin would have either quit the field or been killed sooner, then you would have had control of the when and where.

 

Is the in game kill board working?  I looked and I don't see Krakken on it. 

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12 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Thanks, I'm glad you could see it!   You ready for another 5 years of sub par dwarf charters? 

You know we had some old HoA members join us under our Dwarf charter on Darkbane SB emu for a few ? Really cool guys....Honestly always was cool with Cyjax going back a ways and Soulien was always helpful with asking for advice on builds. Regardless of what happen, still unclear on that, with HoA and LoD & UDL etc we never really felt HoA was just a pile of trolls running their mouths constantly. Not sure what changed....

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Didn't the dark of elves of Menzoberranzan conquer Mithral Hall? 

 

What you're asking for is fundamentally flawed.  No need to get personal because nobody can take your claims of anti stealth mechanics serious.  I don't play stealth, I'm a healer and I think stealth is fine.  I don't see a problem with being forced to pick your composition based off what you want to counter.  You are demanding that your lore charter be competitive. 

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Anytime you try and force Balance into the Lore box, you'll find that it doesnt fit more often than not.

 

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@Barab

@McTan

Hammers High!  Having been on the receiving end of these roach assassins I have to agree with some of your points.  As others have mentioned, tracking will go a long way to help dial back the effectiveness of stealth ganks.  When leveling of discs comes in we will likely be able to increase the effectiveness of mole hunter.  I think Ace should adjust keep/fort guards to have a mixture of dmg, including weak dots, and potentially stealth detection.  As it stands right now you can equip scarecrow and get 15 seconds of pierce immunity which is plenty of time for assassins to get off a gank and utl out to safety.

Edited by cyjax

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I keep seeing remarks about the game's population will suffer unless this perceived problem is fixed.

I think the reality is that the population of players who wish the game mechanics to conform to their role-play preferences will in fact go extinct at some point in the future.

Nothing about the game's design has ever suggested to me that sub-optimal gameplay choices/tactics will be rewarded with success. I was waiting for the video of Todd telling people to "get good" to be posted. I think that about sums it up. This thread was targeted at the same two guys in this video who essentially said don't blame the game for your losses, blame your poor tactics/choices/understanding-of-the-game, so I doubt you will get sympathy from them.

There are hundreds of thousands of gamers out there that love PvP-focused team games that require proper team comp respective to the context of the current battle in order to win. Overwatch is an example of that.

I believe that Crowfall stands to lose more players by watering down the PvP and catering to demands for a kiddie pool, there are already plenty of options for that kind of experience in the MMO market.

 

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9 hours ago, McTan said:

For the last time, my problem is not 4v1 only. It is 4v1 with complete control over when and where a battle (the point of the game) happens. No single Myrm, played at maximum skill level, is diving into a Keep with no back-up for ten minutes of harassing a group. I am saddened by the reading comprehension on this thread. As for me, I'm out.

Lmao actually.... Yes they can......

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/sign

stealth in CF is OP,  easy mod, for no balls players. if ACE keep current implementation - this will be big fail I sure (well, I will switch to stealthers or leave this project like alot of others).

best way to fix it at current situation - flat cooldown on restealth (except stealth  ultimates ofc) after switching from combat mode to gathering mode or just cooldown on whole entering stealth. both - assasin and duelies have ults which give em 100% chance to escape any fight they want (ultimates).  this mean they press button and keep inventory stuff.

stealthers already have initiative advantage and burst out of stealth damage advantage over other classes.

all normal games usually bring "in-combat" mode which prevent going to stealth for some time if you are fighting + give stealthers some active skills WITH cooldowns which give em possibility to restealth in combat. Out of combat they can stealth without any problems.

 

speed diff is not so big issue due access to mounts. no more I think. well, mounts will make Trailmaster and such not so must have now. other speed buffs, well, force players to make a group with supports and limited to group which are small.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Barab said:

 

Two words, Bounty Hunter 

I think you've kinda hit the nail on the head. Crowfall is missing Tracking. Its been all over the skill trees for literally years now. Complaining about Stealth when we don't have the full stealth mini-game is seriously premature. Once Tracking is in, your ability to locate and AoE the socks off of that location (or use actual reveal powers) will make Stealth trivial to counter. 

I think Mandalore made enough of my points without needing to reiterate over them. The chief one being, what anti-stealth tech were you running? Sounds like nothing. If anything Stealth is far too fragile right now for my tastes. Its also lacking any serious depth or level of interest to me. It lacks utilization of positional-based technology they now have in the game. It is by far one of the most vanilla interpretations of Stealth to date for me. It's also incredibly easy to counter and skill training to become "experts" in it is basically non-existent. 

I'm completely okay with them taking a hammer to the whole system and rebuilding it from the ground up. I just know they don't have any plans to do so anytime soon (if they do they've done a really good job of keeping it quiet).

If you are complaining that something needs to be nerfed during the pre-alpha, then stop treating this as a complete game. Envision having all of the systems in place and what the impact of those systems might be one another. In this case, Tracking will almost assuredly make stealth trivially easy to counter. 

Edited by Scree

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Even if u don't run easy 0815 counter strats u could have actually employed the very thing u keep ignoring: tactics and strategy.

The whole threat I just hear u complaining and actually not really going for a productive conversation, face it man.

a) this game is not finished yet

b ) the chance of u and ur friends actually making a lot of mistakes is very likely,due to chill group interactions

c )  if somebody dictates when and where to fight, why did u not set up the conditions in ur own frame during the time he took his distance?=

d ) take a lot of skill to be mad at the game, but not really ask for what could have been possible ? aka -> tactics

e ) uk, a productive discussion goes like this : u describe what happened, u point out what went wrong on both sides ( which u tried to, but mostly stuck to game mechanics ) , then u ask for different perspectives ( aka not sticking to ur own point and going from a different angle of argumentation ) , and then u try to find a better conclussion.

To sum it all up , u wanna feel proven right and validated, sorry man, that's not what's gonna happen in such a community. We want this game to be hardcore pvp , so we go for what's needed and if we run sth different, we enjoy it. If u start attacking the yet unfinished system ( note, not having a productive discussion )  and just defend ur position, nothing much is going to change, cause they are either for or against u ( with this kind of discussion) , but not really trying to work out something even better for everyone.

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7 hours ago, FloTS09 said:

Even if u don't run easy 0815 counter strats u could have actually employed the very thing u keep ignoring: tactics and strategy.

The whole threat I just hear u complaining and actually not really going for a productive conversation, face it man.

a) this game is not finished yet

b ) the chance of u and ur friends actually making a lot of mistakes is very likely,due to chill group interactions

c )  if somebody dictates when and where to fight, why did u not set up the conditions in ur own frame during the time he took his distance?=

d ) take a lot of skill to be mad at the game, but not really ask for what could have been possible ? aka -> tactics

e ) uk, a productive discussion goes like this : u describe what happened, u point out what went wrong on both sides ( which u tried to, but mostly stuck to game mechanics ) , then u ask for different perspectives ( aka not sticking to ur own point and going from a different angle of argumentation ) , and then u try to find a better conclussion.

To sum it all up , u wanna feel proven right and validated, sorry man, that's not what's gonna happen in such a community. We want this game to be hardcore pvp , so we go for what's needed and if we run sth different, we enjoy it. If u start attacking the yet unfinished system ( note, not having a productive discussion )  and just defend ur position, nothing much is going to change, cause they are either for or against u ( with this kind of discussion) , but not really trying to work out something even better for everyone.

Let’s not forget they were running in a 4 man group with no healers.  

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We had cleric, the duelist dropped  him, we dropped the duelist even naked, not fully leveled, and not geared but if the duelist wanted to he could have just avoided his death harressing infinitely,  we had anti stealth discs, they suck. 

Bottom line, Stealth currently is mostly reward with little risk. I get why many of you defend it. 

Far as track goes, far as I am aware, not once has the skill ability description been addressed. We know it's in the passive tree for training but beyond that we do not know the mechanic specifics. It may not even detect stealth.

Edited by Barab

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14 minutes ago, Barab said:

We had cleric, the duelist dropped  him, we dropped the duelist even naked, not fully leveled, and not geared but if the duelist wanted to he could have just avoided his death harressing infinitely,  we had anti stealth discs, they suck. 

Bottom line, Stealth currently is mostly reward with little risk. I get why many of you defend it. 

Far as track goes, far as I am aware, not once has the skill ability description been addressed. We know it's in the passive tree for training but beyond that we do not know the mechanic specifics. It may not even detect stealth.

Neither radical or arbiter cleric is a healer.  One is damage and the other trades most of their heals for improved CC.  You didn’t have a person capable of healing your group.  Eventually you’re going to have to force your guys to play to the meta.  

Stealth by its very nature is about picking the fights you want.  They are inherently weaker by design.  They are built around a strong opener and strong burst but when focused must retreat or hope to win the race but they can’t stand up in the front and expect to win.  In every game stealth and it’s classes all function around the same concepts, from tabletop rpgs to mmos and mobas.  

None of us know what track will be.  We don’t know if it would be a straight SB replica or if it will be similar or just a 100% fresh idea.  Track in sb wasn’t very impactful at revealing stealth chars but it 100% let you know they were there and where there might be.   

I don’t benefit from the stealth system.  I’m a healer; I’m their main target in fights.  I think it’s mostly fine.  There’s some balance issues with the classes themselves I’d like to see resolved but the stealth mechanics themselves I’m good with.  The assassin and duelist classes could use some tweaks.  I’m confused what the custard is point of the melee stealthing Ranger with an aoe passive.  I just don’t see a squishy stealth char aoeing in somebody’s back line and that working well. 

Lastly, @MJayed is such a good ganker every patch there’s a post of him touching somebody’s no no spot and them wanting him nerfed.  He’s done it on duelist, assassin and ranger.  It’s an ongoing joke in HoA coms and every patch it happens.  He’s a gentleman though, I hear he always leaves a roll of quarters on the nightstand. 

 

 

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Stealth isn't hard to combat, especially for a duelist. All you need to do is dot them. A dot will force them to stand and fight for 15 seconds or waste their ult to run away. 

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The stealth ranger is a swiss army knife. A fun one to play.

Currently testing one now and the pleasure of having 3 aoe bombs hit someone is immense :)

3 large dots and stun for an aoe opener! You can easily set traps move away and bow targets down after they set off the traps. 

Or go toe to toe once the traps hit.

The class is decent with the bow, decent with melee, subpar in stealth, but man those traps are a fun sight to see when they hit :)

Edited by Deernado

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2 minutes ago, Deernado said:

The stealth ranger is a swiss army knife. A fun one to play.

Currently testing one now and the pleasure of having 3 aoe bombs hit someone is immense :)

3 large dots and stun for an aoe opener! You can easily set traps move away and bow targets down after they set off the traps. 

Or go toe to toe once the traps hit.

The class is decent with the bow, decent with melee, subpar in stealth, but man those traps are a fun sight to see when they hit :)

Sounds OP,  should just remove stealth.  

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