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McTan

IMO: the two biggest problems with Crowfall

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Wowesque stealth mechanics seem to either dominate an entire pvp system or are completely worthless, with pretty much nothing in between. Once all the anti-stealth mechanics are finished it will probably flip the switch to worthless, which I'm fine with

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thetruth.jpg?resize=400,266

 

Col. Jessup : Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with stealth counters. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Mctan and you curse the Ranger Class. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that McTan's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty, stealth counters. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a stealth counter and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a *damn* what you think you are entitled to!

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If you are a stealth class and you are planning on taking on a pack of 4 people, you should know you can take all 4 of them before being able to get back into stealth before you choose to engage. Or you should have your ult available that can re stealth you.

That is the choice an assassin makes. To engage or not, not to engage, then just disengage at will. 

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39 minutes ago, SmokeTrail said:

If you are a stealth class and you are planning on taking on a pack of 4 people, you should know you can take all 4 of them before being able to get back into stealth before you choose to engage. Or you should have your ult available that can re stealth you.

That is the choice an assassin makes. To engage or not, not to engage, then just disengage at will. 

Why are you letting them restealth?

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20 hours ago, Mikki said:

Has anyone suggested noise cues as a compromise on the stealth issue? Encountered it for the first time today and it looks like a neat mechanic. I certainly wouldn't want to lose it. But maybe hearing footsteps so you know there's something there might be a solution? You know, you hear footsteps, so you can start triggering the relevant abilities, which means you aren't completely up the creek. But if you're not paying attention, or you're too slow, or didn't invest in perception, they still don't lose the advantage they based their class around.

I mean, it's not perfect, but it might be something?

The compromise is the many ways to counter stealth already in game.

1. Rangers promotion specialty Warden has built in

2. Elken has built in reveal as racial

3. Mole-hunter and Illusionist grants the reveal power that also gives to your group

4. Tracking will be added at a later date that will show who is near you and track to them

5. Being a tankier player, or having heals will help negate opener. At this point counter abilities will keep them out of stealth or allow you to run and try and reveal

6. Scarecrow

7. Any other disc that lets you immune that dmg type or ones that remove exposed

 

 

Like, how many more compromises people need to have to have? Just come out and say you don't want to deal with stealth. It will be more honest than pretending there are no counters to it because you don't want to use any one of these many counters to deal with it.

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10 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

The compromise is the many ways to counter stealth already in game.

1. Rangers promotion specialty Warden has built in

2. Elken has built in reveal as racial

3. Mole-hunter and Illusionist grants the reveal power that also gives to your group

4. Tracking will be added at a later date that will show who is near you and track to them

5. Being a tankier player, or having heals will help negate opener. At this point counter abilities will keep them out of stealth or allow you to run and try and reveal

6. Scarecrow

7. Any other disc that lets you immune that dmg type or ones that remove exposed

 

 

Like, how many more compromises people need to have to have? Just come out and say you don't want to deal with stealth. It will be more honest than pretending there are no counters to it because you don't want to use any one of these many counters to deal with it.

Oh I want stealth! It's just, as a new player, there was no one and then I was dead, even with a mole hunter disc.

I don't know how to use any of these other options yet. My character isn't a warden or an elken and while I'm assured that eventually my champion has the option to be unkillable it does take time to reach that stage. I've googled, but every guide is months or more out of date so I've no idea how good the information is.

I'm sure I'll eventually learn, but it might be nice if, when someone was using stealth within a 75m radius, you at least knew there were there? I'm happy to have to work out roughly where around me they are, but it might feel more even if there was some clue? Kinda feels like going from 0 to 100 as is. 

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2 hours ago, mandalore said:

Why are you letting them restealth?

Also, how do I get them out of stealth? Let alone let them not restealth?

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1 minute ago, Mikki said:

Oh I want stealth! It's just, as a new player, there was no one and then I was dead, even with a mole hunter disc.

I don't know how to use any of these other options yet. My character isn't a warden or an elken and while I'm assured that eventually my champion has the option to be unkillable it does take time to reach that stage. I've googled, but every guide is months or more out of date so I've no idea how good the information is.

I'm sure I'll eventually learn, but it might be nice if, when someone was using stealth within a 75m radius, you at least knew there were there? I'm happy to have to work out roughly where around me they are, but it might feel more even if there was some clue? Kinda feels like going from 0 to 100 as is. 

Someone unclear on what the concept of stealth actually is.

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

Someone unclear on what the concept of stealth actually is.

Don't be mean, pet. Help or don't, but this sort of childishness isn't worth either of our time.

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13 hours ago, Mikki said:

Also, how do I get them out of stealth? Let alone let them not restealth?

Let me break some things down for you. 

1.  You need a guild.  You're trying do play a game designed as a group game solo.  It doesn't matter what you do because you will always be behind the people working as a guild.  You need a guild so you can ask questions about the meta. 

2.  Every ranger has an ability to see stealth.  There are two major discs that let you see stealth, Illusionist and Molehunter.  There's an entire race who can see stealth, Elken.  Every choice you make in this game has pro's and con's.  You have to choose what you want to be able to do.  This is your choice. 

3.  Some classes have dots, dots prevent stealth. 

4.  We will have track.  We don't know what it will do.  In SB track was a tool to let you know who was in the proximity and the direction they were in.  JTC will get to track eventually.  We don't have a full system to counter stealth without track but all of the systems to reveal them are in. 

13 hours ago, Mikki said:

Don't be mean, pet. Help or don't, but this sort of childishness isn't worth either of our time.

Don't say ridiculous things.  This whole thread is people bitching about a play style they don't want to play against and nothing else.  Choices limit what you will do and how you will do it. 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Mikki said:

Don't be mean, pet. Help or don't, but this sort of childishness isn't worth either of our time.

Facts are not mean.  Not having a clue where someone is, is the very definition of stealth.  Wanting to have some additional detection system that applies universally for stealth when there are plenty of options available to all races and classes, is simply asking for the removal of stealth.

Regardless, I'll help the discussion.

It seems like there is a major hang up on the ability to "instant restealth" so let's focus on that.  ACE could for example treat without change to the mechanics, stealth similar to how they treat CC.

In CC every player has a pool of points, that the first time you are hit with CC gets depleted, and the more depleted it is, the less time you remain in CC, up to the point where you are CC invulnerable for a time. Over time, your pool replenishes itself. 

So for stealth, I could see a similar mechanism put into play. 

You get a stealth pool, based on your stealth attribute.  When you come out of stealth for whatever reason, this pool is depleted by a certain amount(E.G.35) and over time, this pool rebuilds, (E.G. 1 point per second), and whatever the score in the pool is, is what your true stealth score is. You never really know it, unless you have played enough to intuitively feel where your pool is at. That score is used to determine spot against players that have it.  So the effect would be that well skilled spotters would see people who stealth/reveal/stealth too rapidly and are just plain sloppy, but they would eventually fade from sight of even them after a period of time.

So everyone could theoretically spot a sloppy, constantly flipping in and out stealther, but the careful ones would know how to time the effect for maximum impact. 

All without changing or blocking the mechanisms for going into and out of stealth. In fact, with that mechanic in play, the whole purpose of forcing stealthers into the survival tray first would not even be needed, so long as the effect and recovery were well tuned.  Why not let a stealther flip in and out of stealth attempts, when if they keep doing it everyone will see what they are up to anyway.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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1 minute ago, Atome said:

Biggest problem with the game...performance. Until this is nailed nothing else matters.

I agree 100% with this balance can be addressed later. 

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