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kajidourden

Leveling

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9 minutes ago, kajidourden said:

Except ACE literally said they did not want that to be part of the game and part of the reason people gave them money was for that reason.  It is %100 black and white, there's no other way to interpret it when they literally stated it themselves (as shown in earlier quotes in this thread).

Now, this system isn't set in stone...but as of today, the leveling system directly contradicts part of their initial design principles.  That is a fact.

And again, I don't necessarily want it to go away entirely....but it's broken as is.  The current implementation perfectly demonstrates why they wanted to avoid it.

Never read or interpreted what they said that way, though I can see how and why you do. I just think your wrong.  Every game has a progression. From PUBG where you have to run around like a maniac trying to find your first weapon, to EvE where it takes months of passive training before you are at all useful.

To be frank, it was way worse before when to be at all useful economically, you needed to wait out months of passive training, and combat stats were gated on both the profession combat buffs, AND the race/class buffs in a similar manner.   That to me was a way worse model that describes "filling some arbitrary XP bar" than this is.

Now the only gate is to active powers, and the time you are locked out can be measured in double digit only minutes.

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

Never read or interpreted what they said that way, though I can see how and why you do. I just think your wrong.  Every game has a progression. From PUBG where you have to run around like a maniac trying to find your first weapon, to EvE where it takes months of passive training before you are at all useful.

To be frank, it was way worse before when to be at all useful economically, you needed to wait out months of passive training, and combat stats were gated on both the profession combat buffs, AND the race/class buffs in a similar manner.   That to me was a way worse model that describes "filling some arbitrary XP bar" than this is.

Now the only gate is to active powers, and the time you are locked out can be measured in minutes.

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be.

You can do whatever mental gymnastics you need to, but the statement is there in literal black and white.

Nobody is arguing that this isn't an improvement over whatever you played before....in fact at no time has anyone mentioned going back to older systems except for the people defending the current iteration of leveling as they try and demonstrate that somehow I and those who agree with me want to literally take the game backwards.

This feedback is on what I'm playing today, it has nothing to do with anything before 5.8.

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I somewhat agree with the general idea of the post, the OP is right in that ACE did specifically mention things they didnt want in the game (things that might have swayed players like me into thinking this is the game i wanna back cause of the small amount of available play time of me and my friends who i would hope to be playing with) that they have now added to the game which is kind of messed up. But i do like the talent system and just wish it was changed slightly to be more inclusive to those of us who can only spare a few hours every couple of days (or an hour at like 1 in the morning before they pass out).

But @KrakkenSmacken you also seem to be caught in your own fantasy about how simple the current system is. It doesnt matter that it takes you 1 hour maybe 2 to level a basic vessel. Thats you, that is a person who knows everything already. You know your class skills, you know which mobs to fight when, you know generally where to find these mobs, you know the best ways to farm, you know not to run into keeps at level 5. You know what type of gear you need to be relatively safe. So yes it takes you an hour.

I spent about 4 total hours on the first 2 campaigns (1 of the EU, then the NA when it went up) and my champion is only level 10. Because after looking through and reading all my talents (which a new player would have to do to understand what their class is), i went out and killed the same 3 rank 3 spiders for 1 hour because i couldnt find any other mob groups that werent rank 8+ after spending a lil over 30 mins running around and i didnt feel like spending another 30+ mins trying to figure out where some good ranked mobs to kill were when was still at level 2. Then my last 45 mins or so i played i just kept taking the camps cause i was bored and wanted to see my score go up on the scoreboard.

For any person who doesnt have that level of experience, they have to figure things out. So what takes you 1 hour will take someone else up to 3 or 4 maybe. People that come in and read about a class and think they will like it then after spending 5-10+ hours leveling it, find they dont actually like it (or slotted in a rune they thought  they would like and turns out they hate it), now need to start from scratch and spend another 5 hours hopeing the next class is more their style. Players shouldnt have to do 20+ hours of research on every class + promotion + discipline combination before being able to jump into the game.

Also your not taking into consideration the population density. Yes its easy for you to go out and level right now cause there are not hundreds upon thousands of players on your server also trying to farm what your farming. When i first logged in on the first Live EU campaign i had to leave the Temple instantly just to level because there were like 20+ people killing all the rank 1 spiders and 2 people in the boar area killing all those. So in the future when leveling takes longer (cause its probably sped up now) and there are a bunch of people (allies or enemies) killing what you need to kill, then your gonna be wasting alot more time just finding spots to farm (or respawning if you ended up in a bad place), and that time spent looking could be someones entire amount of playtime for one session if they arent lucky. Also just cause someone is max level, it doesnt mean all max levels are gonna stop grinding certain mobs for resources/hands/golds/other things, so even when a good portion of people hit that point where (for the moment) they dont need to level, its not like all these mob spots are gonna become empty for the people falling behind already.

And in terms of progressing vessel grade, players who can only spare a small amount of time (1-3 hours each of their play sessions) now have to continuously grind for more and more hours any time their vessel gets better. What takes 1-3 hours on a basic vessel could take 2-5 hours on a white and 4-7 on a green and so on and so fourth. People who play less or dont win as often are already at the disadvantage of not having as much stuff to dump as people that play more/win more, so you dropping 17k gold might be a drop in the bucket, but that could be weeks worth of another person times to save up enough to sacrifice enough to get a white level vessel at a playable state. Sounds alot like a strong getting stronger while the weak falling behind kind of thing right there, the "Uncle Bob" problem.

Lastly, we dont know if ACE plans on keeping the current XP method for groups or not. It might be viable to just group up with high level people and have them kill rank 10 mobs to speed level you know, but we dont know if it will stay that way. ACE may or may not keep it the same and thats something well have to see later down the road.

But the point is, for people who came to this game to fight (and who dont have much time to do much else), the current system is a Grind to them even if it isnt a grind to you, and its a grind they have to do multiple times over any time they upgrade their vessel. And for people like me who like options, that means i now have at the very least level 3 basic vessels, then wait till i get a legendary version of each to level 3 more times while taking longer to do it (and thats only if i go straight from basic to legendary, for any other grades i might obtain along the way thats even more pointless grinding). Not everyone/group is gonna be able to OR want to fund each individual persons personal practices with their characters. If my guild is in a drought and running low on funds, they aint gonna drop me 200k golds to level my new vessel, which means im back to doing a mindless grind that i didnt wanna do.

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1 hour ago, ShadowwBoi13 said:

I somewhat agree with the general idea of the post, the OP is right in that ACE did specifically mention things they didnt want in the game (things that might have swayed players like me into thinking this is the game i wanna back cause of the small amount of available play time of me and my friends who i would hope to be playing with) that they have now added to the game which is kind of messed up. But i do like the talent system and just wish it was changed slightly to be more inclusive to those of us who can only spare a few hours every couple of days (or an hour at like 1 in the morning before they pass out).

But @KrakkenSmacken you also seem to be caught in your own fantasy about how simple the current system is. It doesnt matter that it takes you 1 hour maybe 2 to level a basic vessel. Thats you, that is a person who knows everything already. You know your class skills, you know which mobs to fight when, you know generally where to find these mobs, you know the best ways to farm, you know not to run into keeps at level 5. You know what type of gear you need to be relatively safe. So yes it takes you an hour.

I spent about 4 total hours on the first 2 campaigns (1 of the EU, then the NA when it went up) and my champion is only level 10. Because after looking through and reading all my talents (which a new player would have to do to understand what their class is), i went out and killed the same 3 rank 3 spiders for 1 hour because i couldnt find any other mob groups that werent rank 8+ after spending a lil over 30 mins running around and i didnt feel like spending another 30+ mins trying to figure out where some good ranked mobs to kill were when was still at level 2. Then my last 45 mins or so i played i just kept taking the camps cause i was bored and wanted to see my score go up on the scoreboard.

For any person who doesnt have that level of experience, they have to figure things out. So what takes you 1 hour will take someone else up to 3 or 4 maybe. People that come in and read about a class and think they will like it then after spending 5-10+ hours leveling it, find they dont actually like it (or slotted in a rune they thought  they would like and turns out they hate it), now need to start from scratch and spend another 5 hours hopeing the next class is more their style. Players shouldnt have to do 20+ hours of research on every class + promotion + discipline combination before being able to jump into the game.

Also your not taking into consideration the population density. Yes its easy for you to go out and level right now cause there are not hundreds upon thousands of players on your server also trying to farm what your farming. When i first logged in on the first Live EU campaign i had to leave the Temple instantly just to level because there were like 20+ people killing all the rank 1 spiders and 2 people in the boar area killing all those. So in the future when leveling takes longer (cause its probably sped up now) and there are a bunch of people (allies or enemies) killing what you need to kill, then your gonna be wasting alot more time just finding spots to farm (or respawning if you ended up in a bad place), and that time spent looking could be someones entire amount of playtime for one session if they arent lucky. Also just cause someone is max level, it doesnt mean all max levels are gonna stop grinding certain mobs for resources/hands/golds/other things, so even when a good portion of people hit that point where (for the moment) they dont need to level, its not like all these mob spots are gonna become empty for the people falling behind already.

And in terms of progressing vessel grade, players who can only spare a small amount of time (1-3 hours each of their play sessions) now have to continuously grind for more and more hours any time their vessel gets better. What takes 1-3 hours on a basic vessel could take 2-5 hours on a white and 4-7 on a green and so on and so fourth. People who play less or dont win as often are already at the disadvantage of not having as much stuff to dump as people that play more/win more, so you dropping 17k gold might be a drop in the bucket, but that could be weeks worth of another person times to save up enough to sacrifice enough to get a white level vessel at a playable state. Sounds alot like a strong getting stronger while the weak falling behind kind of thing right there, the "Uncle Bob" problem.

Lastly, we dont know if ACE plans on keeping the current XP method for groups or not. It might be viable to just group up with high level people and have them kill rank 10 mobs to speed level you know, but we dont know if it will stay that way. ACE may or may not keep it the same and thats something well have to see later down the road.

But the point is, for people who came to this game to fight (and who dont have much time to do much else), the current system is a Grind to them even if it isnt a grind to you, and its a grind they have to do multiple times over any time they upgrade their vessel. And for people like me who like options, that means i now have at the very least level 3 basic vessels, then wait till i get a legendary version of each to level 3 more times while taking longer to do it (and thats only if i go straight from basic to legendary, for any other grades i might obtain along the way thats even more pointless grinding). Not everyone/group is gonna be able to OR want to fund each individual persons personal practices with their characters. If my guild is in a drought and running low on funds, they aint gonna drop me 200k golds to level my new vessel, which means im back to doing a mindless grind that i didnt wanna do.

This has been my experience. I spent hours trying to level a few different classes to see some of the difference. Never got any past lvl 15. Only one or two up to lvl 10.

It’s easy to say “farm spiders” to get sac items and gold. However these same guys are the ones waiting to gank the cloth wearing lowbie and take your gold. You can stomach some of that but when it’s the same guys over and over it gets old.

Even more hilarious to me is later some of these same guys complaining no one to fight. Well stop whacking the lowbies so they can level. They still have the equipment advantage which is far more of advantage than skill. 

Seems to be no realm pride therefore no incentive to help others beyond saying “find a guild”. Well not many if any guilds playing that aren’t “hard core”. Hope that changes.

 

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Maybe the point distribution should be changed so that more talent points are distributed at early levels (and more stats distributed at later levels) so that Vessels get to access all the class powers by level 15 (for example).

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On 12/24/2018 at 2:49 PM, ShadowwBoi13 said:

 

mes over any time theyBut the point is, for people who came to this game to fight (and who dont have much time to do much else), the current system is a Grind to them even if it isnt a grind to you, and its a grind they have to do multiple ti upgrade their vessel. And for people like me who like options, that means i now have at the very least level 3 basic vessels, then wait till i get a legendary version of each to level 3 more times while taking longer to do it (and thats only if i go straight from basic to legendary, for any other grades i might obtain along the way thats even more pointless grinding). Not everyone/group is gonna be able to OR want to fund each individual persons personal practices with their characters. If my guild is in a drought and running low on funds, they aint gonna drop me 200k golds to level my new vessel, which means im back to doing a mindless grind that i didnt wanna do.

Read the whole thing, and it's a pretty good post, minus the fact there was not a single suggestion/request about what to do about besides scrapping the whole thing, but I figure I should respond to this paragraph specifically

Quote

 But i do like the talent system and just wish it was changed slightly to be more inclusive to those of us who can only spare a few hours every couple of days (or an hour at like 1 in the morning before they pass out).

How exactly?  What do you mean changed slightly?

 

This is a competition game, against other players, who will be devoting more time to in that casual players, to do one thing, beat you when they meet you on the field.  Unpracticed players are always going to be at a disadvantage in any game, regardless of gear, because of lack of experience playing the game. 

What you are describing here, is being able to be on par with a dedicated player, without putting in the work to be effective, and I don't know of any competitive game where that is a reasonable expectation.  Even MOBAS like League of Legends, take a month or more of heavy play "grind" to reach the level 30 standard, and weeks/months of playing each champion to get a handle on all the neauces. Complaining about leveling, is really not that much different than complaining about wanting to try to learn a new champ in LoL.  It takes time, practice, and failure to eventual figure out if you like it, or how to play it.  And getting access to those champs are gated by BOTH time and money. The difference here is, you get the race/class for free, but you have to learn how to use it as you go.

Expecting ACE to have come up with some magical system that suddenly makes players who don't play frequently competitive with players that do is totally unreasonable.

I see here you expectine 

  • 3 different classes "basic vessels".
  • That you took enough time to understand and like
  • Eventually moving up to legendary vessels and gear, 
  • Competing with the best players/guilds in the same worlds.
  • All on 1-3 hours a week.
  • Without the support of a guild.

That's just unreasonable, plain and simple.  Just as unreasonable that a player hitting level 30 in League expecting to be playing against platinum ranked players on day one. You wouldn't want to, because it would suck getting beaten that badly all the time.

Fortunately ACE does have a mitigation for that, that is not currently available due to population.

Faction worlds, with lower tiers of resources, that will be ignored by the dedicated guilds and expert players.  Right now, we are all crammed in together, in one world, fighting for everything from rank 1-10, with everyone from noob to people who have played since hunger dome. Of course there is going to be a huge imbalance now. One that can not be overcome by trying to turn this game into a MOBA v2.

Even if ACE gave you level 30 any toon from the start, with capped passive training, a 1 hr a week player is still going to be just another sheep amongst wolves, just better dressed. I  have watched that happen all the way since big world, when skilled players would roflstomp unskilled, prior to any vessel leveling, and with basically the same gear.

If you want advice on how to level effectively.  Find a group of 3-4 heading out to do that specifically, or a guild with a couple of players, and don't rely on playing a group game solo.

 

Oh and for the record, the plan used to be that vessels along with everything else would decay.  Way way worse than a level once, live forever, from a grind point of view.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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I've not really played pre-alpha content since hungerdome - just to set the tone...

I leveled three classes in the last four days - almost entirely solo and in 2-3 hour sprints with the holidays and family here... Templar to 15, confessor to 25, and cleric to 28 - not been ganked once, not run into any issues getting mats to try my hand at making things (other than needing to ask if wells were actually in the game as I'd never seen one), fought in two sieges, taken countless outposts, had a few world-pvp encounters that were a hoot...

I guess from where I'm standing I just don't see the issue(s)?

Edited by raeshlavik

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On 12/24/2018 at 1:11 AM, mystafyi said:

If one can bypass this mechanic so easily then why even have it?  This is something ACE specifically said they would NOT do.

The game was promoted as not having levels and not having pve grind to open up combat skills that are gated by levels. Filling up a xp bar by doing meaningless pve tasks was also something that was NOT going to be in this game as per ACE. 

In any event All I can do is post my feeling towards this issue and hope ACE will take into account those of us that don't like this new direction.

The mechanic exists for two basic reasons:

1) To provide a money sink. Veteran players can level vessels very quickly by spending gold. Getting new disciplines for a vessel will be more difficult than actually leveling the vessel.

2) To provide new players with direction. Leveling gives new players easily identifiable goals and gives them the chance to learn the game in a safe environment. This is important for player retention. 

Yes, they said there wouldn't be leveling, but this isn't even close to what other games had, and it is something the game needed for the reasons I outlined. Leveling in Shadowbane was a much longer process.

So no, this isn't a bait and switch, as Kaji suggested. Going back to the kickstarter, they had mentioned that there would be both active and passive progression. Sometimes the needs of the game require design changes. Vessels weren't even a thing in the kickstarter. Adding them had ripple effects that required other changes.

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9 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I see here you expecting

  • 3 different classes "basic vessels".
  • That you took enough time to understand and like
  • Eventually moving up to legendary vessels and gear, 
  • Competing with the best players/guilds in the same worlds.
  • All on 1-3 hours a week.
  • Without the support of a guild.

All of these people playing solo (2-3 close friends is basically playing solo) versus HoA or Blazzen LoD or Winterblades and then complaining about not winning is just good fun.  Get a guild, its a guild game.  If you are insistent on playing solo you have wasted your money; get a guild you filthy animals. 


This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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1 hour ago, Arkade said:

Yes, they said there wouldn't be leveling, but this isn't even close to what other games had, and it is something the game needed for the reasons I outlined. Leveling in Shadowbane was a much longer process.

So no, this isn't a bait and switch, as Kaji suggested. Going back to the kickstarter, they had mentioned that there would be both active and passive progression. Sometimes the needs of the game require design changes. Vessels weren't even a thing in the kickstarter. Adding them had ripple effects that required other changes.

I didn't see it as dedicated leveling as the levels were a byproduct of gathering stuff to make things with... I didn't pointlessly farm spiders; I killed enough to figure out the ranges, play with some of the abilities, and get enough hide to make a set of leather armor. Then I discovered that making food is the key to early success as it's easy to 'press F' on every mushroom you see while you're gathering stuff you actually need, you make way more food than you can use even with basic skill, and Malekai seems to really dig leftovers.

So in the process of Learn2Play I made level 15 on a templar, decided I didn't like running up and whacking things, and started over. But in getting to 15 on character #1 I made enough stuff to get character #2 to level 10 in about 5 minutes at Malekai's recycling center.

Then I heard over chat that I should have a mount; cue the great pig slaughter of 2018... I think I spent two hours just rinse-repeating pigs, but in doing this I made about 3000 gold and that financed character #3 to like level 20 as I wanted to try my hand at a healer...

20 to 29 has been purely through staying alive and learning the in's and out's of crafting. Malekai is easily my favorite mechanic in Crowfall, and I literally end each play session by finding ways to combine nonflammable stuff into flammable for fun and exp before logging out.

During all of this I think I've killed a hundred pigs, two dozen spiders, 5-6 R3/R4 things in the world, and exactly two R5 cats. All of my levels have come from simply playing the game versus specific "leveling".

 

Edited by raeshlavik
Typos

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13 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Read the whole thing, and it's a pretty good post, minus the fact there was not a single suggestion/request about what to do about besides scrapping the whole thing, but I figure I should respond to this paragraph specifically

How exactly?  What do you mean changed slightly?

My bad on that part, but i did put in my thoughts on the matter in 2 other posts and didnt feel like making an already long post even longer by rehashing what i had already said. The posts im referencing that i made are Here and There . The gist of the 2 posts i made in terms of the first post was that i liked the OPs suggestion to basically remove the tree layout (cause ive always hated tree layouts) and give the players a little more freedom in getting what they want when. If i can get all my skills by level 5ish by only taking skill nodes then thats fine, but locking me behind what turns into 3+ hours of grinding to get the main feature of my class while still missing a skill or 2 is just kinda trash.

The second post was just a suggestion to change the current skill allocation in the talents tree to skill upgrades OR entirely new skills for the classes while allowing the classes to have their base kits so that people have the ability to actually fight with a new vessel and still be able to "try out" a class without dumping a bunch of time into finding out its not what you want.

14 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

This is a competition game, against other players, who will be devoting more time to in that casual players, to do one thing, beat you when they meet you on the field.  Unpracticed players are always going to be at a disadvantage in any game, regardless of gear, because of lack of experience playing the game. 

What you are describing here, is being able to be on par with a dedicated player, without putting in the work to be effective, and I don't know of any competitive game where that is a reasonable expectation.  Even MOBAS like League of Legends, take a month or more of heavy play "grind" to reach the level 30 standard, and weeks/months of playing each champion to get a handle on all the neauces. Complaining about leveling, is really not that much different than complaining about wanting to try to learn a new champ in LoL.  It takes time, practice, and failure to eventual figure out if you like it, or how to play it.  And getting access to those champs are gated by BOTH time and money. The difference here is, you get the race/class for free, but you have to learn how to use it as you go.

Time =/= skill , What you call a "dedicated player" i call a "No lifer". Just because i dont play a game 60+ hours a week doesnt mean i cant be competitive unless the game adds mechanics that make my lower play time a determent to me overall. Just because i dont know every characters abilities in LoL doesnt mean i cant quickly pick up on them while playing against them. The ability to read a situation and adapt is also a competitive skill. Not every person who plays LoL 60+ hours a week is a professional player getting payed hundreds of thousands of dollars to play the game. Some of those people that play that much are probably still Gold or lower in ranked (if they even play ranked). Competitive is a mind set to do what needs to be done with what you have and what you can do, not something that should be dictated by time.

I dont have nearly as much time to play Comp in overwatch as i used to, but im still diamond basically every season (except a few where a really long break had me playing a little lesser than normal), and i still play at a diamond level (most of the time) even though i dont play everyday like other people in diamond. Hell im still a bronze border and most comp games i get in people are silver to gold borders and maybe a few plats, they play way more than me but im still able to compete with them having 1000+ hours over me because that time doesnt put them at any more of an advantage. My Skills, My Decisions, and sometimes my ability to aim (only sometimes though) dictates that im just as competitive as them even if i dont have the time to play that they do.

14 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Oh and for the record, the plan used to be that vessels along with everything else would decay.  Way way worse than a level once, live forever, from a grind point of view.

Except thats fine cause back then you didnt have to do anything with a vessel either. Trading out vessels every 2 weeks woulda been fine when you dont have to constantly redo everything from scratch. Make sure your runecrafter has an extra set of the 6 runes you use, pop in your new vessel grab your gear out of a box and slot your runes and you have your character back in full force, 30 seconds of work. It also stopped people from rolling 1 good legendary vessel and just using it forever which i was fine with, gives more use to necromancers and runecrafters (when disciplines actually get added to them and arent free).

 

14 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Expecting ACE to have come up with some magical system that suddenly makes players who don't play frequently competitive with players that do is totally unreasonable.

I see here you expectine 

  • 3 different classes "basic vessels".
  • That you took enough time to understand and like
  • Eventually moving up to legendary vessels and gear, 
  • Competing with the best players/guilds in the same worlds.
  • All on 1-3 hours a week.
  • Without the support of a guild.

That's just unreasonable, plain and simple.  Just as unreasonable that a player hitting level 30 in League expecting to be playing against platinum ranked players on day one. You wouldn't want to, because it would suck getting beaten that badly all the time.

 

Yes, your first points are exactly what i expect. I want to be able to play 3 different characters with moderately different play styles so i have a few option when deciding my plan of action for a session (They have this). Thankfully ive had experience with all of them so i dont have to learn much about them, this cant be said for newer players though. I do plan on upgrading vessels whenever the option arrives because it keeps my power level slightly closer to those ahead of me (But now im screwed if i do cause of leveling). Yes i plan to compete with whoever is my groups enemies in every world, better or worse is subjective (My ability to compete should be based off of my Skill and the Decision i make, not dictated by the time i have). The 1-3 hours isnt a plan its just something ill have to live with intermittently whenever my schedule changes to force it on me. My plan is for at least 15 hours a week BARE minimum if i can help it.

But who said i didnt have a guild or wanted to play guildless? I do have a guild (although a couple of them have scattered into larger groups) im just currently screwed out of playing with them currently cause of work. Also not every guild magically has enough stuff to instantly bolster their entire group or have large groups of people online at every hour of every day to make sure a drastic schedule shift doesnt leave someone out of the loop.

Final note, as i know ive drawn this out way to long. The idea that adding leveling as a resource sink is kinda dumb. Every crafting profession is a forver ongoing resource sink (except necromancy) so why would we need to add another arbitrary sink for resources. And when Stone masonry actually becomes the foundation for building up defenses thats gonna be a MAJOR resource sink, cause that stuff will be breaking constantly.

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31 minutes ago, ShadowwBoi13 said:

But who said i didnt have a guild or wanted to play guildless? I do have a guild (although a couple of them have scattered into larger groups) im just currently screwed out of playing with them currently cause of work. Also not every guild magically has enough stuff to instantly bolster their entire group or have large groups of people online at every hour of every day to make sure a drastic schedule shift doesnt leave someone out of the loop.

What do you consider a guild?  If you can't compete with any of the current "superpowers" of the testing world (HoA or BlazzenLoD or Winterblades) then whats the point? 

 

Actually I have a better question for you:  whats going to happen when they allow "free building" in the dregs and somebody comes and smashes your buildings with 30+ bros?  By free building I mean shadowbane place your city where you want.  What's a 5 man guild going to do when they can't control the lands they want to claim?  When they can't protect themselves?  So whats the point of being a guild where you purposefully and willfully choose to not be able to contend on your own and instead REQUIRING that a faction protects you? 

Edited by mandalore

This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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1 hour ago, mandalore said:

What do you consider a guild?  If you can't compete with any of the current "superpowers" of the testing world (HoA or BlazzenLoD or Winterblades) then whats the point? 

 

Actually I have a better question for you:  whats going to happen when they allow "free building" in the dregs and somebody comes and smashes your buildings with 30+ bros?  By free building I mean shadowbane place your city where you want.  What's a 5 man guild going to do when they can't control the lands they want to claim?  When they can't protect themselves?  So whats the point of being a guild where you purposefully and willfully choose to not be able to contend on your own and instead REQUIRING that a faction protects you? 

Sounds like poorly made socksty design.  You shouldn't be required to join one of two mega-guilds in order to play the game.  

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6 minutes ago, kajidourden said:

Sounds like poorly made socksty design.  You shouldn't be required to join one of two mega-guilds in order to play the game.  

I think this is what the fealty trees are for...

Back in ye olden Shadowbane if you were a smaller group and wanted to play the city game, you had no real choice but to get in with a bigger group to have the muscle to defend it. And that made for some amazing game play when xXBr0F0rceXx decided to roll some 10-man city and in turn got erased by the continent's superpower. :)

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1 hour ago, kajidourden said:

Sounds like poorly made socksty design.  You shouldn't be required to join one of two mega-guilds in order to play the game.  

It’s sad that you think 20 people is a mega guild.

 

The devs have made it clear through all stages of development that the core of the game is group vs group. 

Edited by mandalore

This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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3 hours ago, mandalore said:

It’s sad that you think 20 people is a mega guild.

 

The devs have made it clear through all stages of development that the core of the game is group vs group. 

So first you say that if you're not part of the biggest guilds that exist today you might as well not join one and now you are trying to trivialize their numbers?  Pick one.

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7 hours ago, ShadowwBoi13 said:

Time =/= skill , What you call a "dedicated player" i call a "No lifer". Just because i dont play a game 60+ hours a week doesnt mean i cant be competitive unless the game adds mechanics that make my lower play time a determent to me overall. Just because i dont know every characters abilities in LoL doesnt mean i cant quickly pick up on them while playing against them.

...

Except thats fine cause back then you didnt have to do anything with a vessel either.

...

Yes, your first points are exactly what i expect. I want to be able to play 3 different characters with moderately different play styles so i have a few option when deciding my plan of action for a session (They have this). Thankfully ive had experience with all of them so i dont have to learn much about them, this cant be said for newer players though.

It takes months of dedicated play just to make silver, and from experience, the last thing any non-competitive player want's is to try to face off against a platinum player.  If you have ever played with or against one, (I have done both) the difference in skill from even what you consider a "no lifer" is pretty astounding.

After you have a good base of about 30-40  games (20-45 min each) of 5-10 champions, you could probably "quickly pick up" as you put it, on new ones, at least a defensive strategy on how to deal with them. 

Time does equal skill, more so in games than any of the other suddied domains.

Quote

What's really surprising is how much it depends on the domain:

  • In games, practice made for a 26% difference
  • In music, it was a 21% difference
  • In sports, an 18% difference
  • In education, a 4% difference
  • In professions, just a 1% difference

 

I think you have never actually tried to get your hands on an advanced vessel if you assume that you "didn't have to do anything" with it.  It takes hours more, by a very large margin, including groups of players who work together, to even get the resources to try to roll a single green vessel.  In the quest for new vessel parts, you will probably have played enough time to naturally level 3-4 different vessels while you acquire the parts.

How exactly do you expect to have even the barest of understanding of a "plan of action" if you haven't played the race/class at least the minimal time it takes to level one?

Given your experience in Fortnight, I can see exactly why you want to remove the achievement part of the game.  All champs coming with a fully baked kit, on even ground, is what a MOBA is all about. 

CF is not a MOBA.

 

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3 hours ago, kajidourden said:

So first you say that if you're not part of the biggest guilds that exist today you might as well not join one and now you are trying to trivialize their numbers?  Pick one.

Lol never mind, stay solo so you waste your investment.  I bet you hear “I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed” a lot. 


This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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7 hours ago, mandalore said:

Lol never mind, stay solo so you waste your investment.  I bet you hear “I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed” a lot. 

Right, you can't manage to put together a cohesive argument....quick, better deflect!  

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