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kajidourden

Leveling

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Just now, Zatch said:

Can the noobs all get together and figure out what they want? Last patch its that they wanted a progression. This patch its the opposite. 

Also the I speak for everyone hogwash is just that. Have a nice day!

Nice bait. Try harder next time.

2 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Anyone that gave them enough money gets a forum title and access to a private subforum where the devs actually interact with players, unlike the rest of the forums. You could check the devtracker to see how little they actually interact with players, but that function has been broken for a very long time.

You did miss when they changed the leveling system, a couple months ago.They wanted to give 'progression' like other mmo's and for players that play for 'achievements' in games

What Hamon said, it keeps powercreep down and honestly I'd be more open to the idea if players got experience killing other players and not mindlessly farming mobs that honestly have no real sense of a hitbox. Also if we have no influence, what's the point of us even backing then? 

But my previous statement stands, that leveling in most MMORPGs, this one included is Draconian. The only game I know of right now that pulls this off correctly and gets players on the fast track to PvP is Black Desert Online. Which I don't think Crowfall is trying to mimic, I could be wrong. 

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10 minutes ago, RhapsodyDownpour said:

Nice bait. Try harder next time.

 

It's not bait read the 4th post of this thread. This was one of the many posts on the forums of people constantly complaining they were bored and had no idea what to do. They added leveling so new people would have a sense of progression and be eased into the game. 

 

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The leveling system is designed very well in my opinion.

- It gradually introduces new players to their abilities and additional mechanics. Remember that a lot of us have been playing this game for years at this point and don't realize how much knowledge we've accumulated over that amount of time.

- Experienced players can blast through the leveling process on stock vessels. Even just purely killing mobs with no sacrificing it takes maybe 2 hours to hit max level playing with any sort of efficiency. 

- It gives the game a constant gold and resource dump. Epic and legendary vessels take A LOT of XP to level and also require high end sacrifice materials. This gives players moment-to-moment things to do when there's not a big event going on. Once disciplines get locked to the vessel you're going to see the value of gold and sacrifice items go WAY up!

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6 minutes ago, ZYBAK said:

The leveling system is designed very well in my opinion.

- It gradually introduces new players to their abilities and additional mechanics. Remember that a lot of us have been playing this game for years at this point and don't realize how much knowledge we've accumulated over that amount of time.

- Experienced players can blast through the leveling process on stock vessels. Even just purely killing mobs with no sacrificing it takes maybe 2 hours to hit max level playing with any sort of efficiency. 

- It gives the game a constant gold and resource dump. Epic and legendary vessels take A LOT of XP to level and also require high end sacrifice materials. This gives players moment-to-moment things to do when there's not a big event going on. Once disciplines get locked to the vessel you're going to see the value of gold and sacrifice items go WAY up!

All of this but especially the last bit. The game has to have a money sink, otherwise gold will just continue to come into the game and pile up. That helm that costs 2000 gold today will cost 2 million gold a year from now.

As players accumulate wealth, leveling a new vessel will take minutes at most. Sacrifice a bunch of gold, get to 30 and fill out your talents and disciplines. People aren't going to be grinding for every vessel.

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5 hours ago, Arkade said:

All of this but especially the last bit. The game has to have a money sink, otherwise gold will just continue to come into the game and pile up. That helm that costs 2000 gold today will cost 2 million gold a year from now.

As players accumulate wealth, leveling a new vessel will take minutes at most. Sacrifice a bunch of gold, get to 30 and fill out your talents and disciplines. People aren't going to be grinding for every vessel.

I won't disagree that the game needs a money sink.

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On 1/6/2019 at 4:35 PM, mandalore said:

So let’s pretend they remove it for a moment.  What personal progression is left?  The game is just a moba without a system to progress with. 

That is literally what they sold when they asked people for money though....

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So give me a detailed example of a better system that gives a progression system that interacts with all stages of the game.  Without some form of progression it’s jus gear that determines the power of your character.  The old skill system created a caste system with the oldest accounts at the top, which is trash for the new people we will need to eventually replace the people who left because they lost.  

 

If you feel so betrayed email support and pray to Gordon.  He prefers human sacrifice but a good goat or mule will do in a pinch. 

Idk what to tell the people that are upset.  What do you want them to do? 

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28 minutes ago, mandalore said:

So give me a detailed example of a better system that gives a progression system that interacts with all stages of the game.  Without some form of progression it’s jus gear that determines the power of your character.  The old skill system created a caste system with the oldest accounts at the top, which is trash for the new people we will need to eventually replace the people who left because they lost.  

 

If you feel so betrayed email support and pray to Gordon.  He prefers human sacrifice but a good goat or mule will do in a pinch. 

Idk what to tell the people that are upset.  What do you want them to do? 

Gee, I don't know....maybe hold themselves accountable to the promise they made people who they took money from and made it possible for them to make their game?

This whole discussion went off the rails a while ago anyway.  Not matter how many times I mention it we keep coming back but I'll say it one last time and then bow out.  I don't think that leveling should be killed off entirely, it just needs to be iterated on so that it doesn't feel like i'm playing a PvE game for an arbitrary number of hours before I get to play the PvP game I invested in.

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Posted (edited)
On 22.12.2018 at 8:20 PM, kajidourden said:

Leveling doesn't seem to fill any real need or desire from anyone from a gameplay perspective.  As it stands, it makes no sense to run out into the campaign and start fighting until you have leveled to max.  You are missing critical skills and stats that puts you at a massive disadvantage vs players that have leveled their vessels.  What this translates to is a requirement for players to complete a task that some will see as a chore or barrier to entry in what is supposed to a PvP game.  Nobody is going to put themselves at the massive disadvantage that not having your full range of skills/stats unlocked will leave you with, so instead you will have players farming the easiest possible things (AI) in order to level instead of doing what they came to do.  Already in the test chat you have people decrying the fact that they are required to go out and harvest/craft sufficiently effective gear in order to get to what they really want to be doing....PvP.  Add to that the chore of having to level up your vessel and you have this awkward feeling in regards to gameplay where you start to wonder "Is this a PvP game or not?  Why am I having to do all of this Non-PvP stuff to play?"

Remove skills from the leveling process, regardless of whatever else you intend to do.  I understand the idea behind being able to take multiple talent paths to customize your vessel each time, but creating a chore to complete before you can play the game is not the way to go about it. Instead, I would suggest having leveling grant talents that are not tied to major things like skill unlocks and discipline slots (at least not the first Major/Minor).  Instead, everyone should start with the ability to jump into a battle and be effective...though the level of that effectiveness will be based on several other factors....but being completely hamstrung is not fun and not encouraging players to go out and PvP.  

Ultimately, leveling should be something that occurs naturally as part of participating in the throne war that this game is supposed to be simulating...not a pre-requisite to participation.  Requiring people to spend time leveling up from non-PvP activities before PvP is something PvE games do when they tack on a PvP mode...that should not be the case here.

Edit: For some additional perspective, let's put the shoe on the other foot.  Let's say you started up WoW or FFXIV and you're dropped in with one spell and told "You need to go PvP for a while to earn your skills, then you can go out and participate in PvE".  This would be totally unacceptable and people would be rightfully upset.

I`m not sure what u are trying to achieve with this topic since all mmorpg I can remember have a progression system with an experience curve, but talent system is new in CF. It was one of many design decisions which was poor executed recently due to the testing phase of Crowfall is over, and the active campaigns started in 5.8. About the wood & stone frames sac. value experience it need to balance with creature experience, but one of those things that ACE need to look at concerning the experience curve and items sac. values. We also need pvp experience, harvesting experience inside a campaign when u bang at wood, rock & stones - and not just unbalance ganking heaven when a harvester lose all resources due to a gank and get 0 experience out of 1-2 hours of harvesting for example. 

An that is a huge balance issue compare to combat & harvesting - my point is when you cut down a tree - u get better cutting down trees after u have done it for 1000 times so character experience. It`s just bad executed concerning the active level progression system now with new talents, and the sacrifice item value for experience with the current design.

Edited by mythx

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3 hours ago, mythx said:

I`m not sure what u are trying to achieve with this topic since all mmorpg I can remember have a progression system with an experience curve, but talent system is new in CF.

 

They don't want to level, they want insta -ready moba pvp but they think they want an RPG. 

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Posted (edited)

 

I think the biggest issue is crowfall was sold like a game of thrones with full loot, but when the player starts playing it looks like a farm game. You start by killing pigs instead of killing enemies. I do not know exactly who had the ingenious idea of creating a PVE grind without any PVP in a full-loot game of thrones... I want to start the game already in a competitive environment, where I have to fight against real enemies, even if indirectly for resources like food, wood, ore, but I want to compete against PLAYERS in a PVP open map e with many PVE elements to progression.

Edited by hamon

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8 minutes ago, hamon said:

 

I think the biggest issue is crowfall was sold like a game of thrones with full loot, but when the player starts playing it looks like a farm game. You start by killing pigs instead of killing enemies. I do not know exactly who had the ingenious idea of creating a PVE grind without any PVP in a full-loot game of thrones... I want to start the game already in a competitive environment, where I have to fight against real enemies, even if indirectly for resources like food, wood, ore, but I want to compete against PLAYERS in a PVP open map e with many PVE elements to progression.

You'll probably like Dregs campaigns a lot more than the current God's Reach campaigns we are testing.

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 7:14 AM, mandalore said:

They don't want to level, they want insta -ready moba pvp but they think they want an RPG. 

I just want class skills not to be locked to vessel levels. Perhaps if those skills scaled up at certain levels I could be happy with, but not the ability to use the skills at all until a certain level. Cant we meet halfway? :)

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17 hours ago, mystafyi said:

I just want class skills not to be locked to vessel levels. Perhaps if those skills scaled up at certain levels I could be happy with, but not the ability to use the skills at all until a certain level. Cant we meet halfway? :)

Leveling vessels is part of the sink for gold and resources.  It's part of the economy. 

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 11:44 AM, mandalore said:

Leveling vessels is part of the sink for gold and resources.  It's part of the economy. 

Locking class skills behind vessel levels is not needed to have gold sinks. You seemed to miss the fact I am not speaking of leveling vessels but gating basic class skills behind levels. While I agree gold sinks are important, it could be better implemented. Perhaps having access to spirit bank would require resources and/or gold. This example would allow gold sink via vessel levels, without gating class skills behind levels, and would add a sink for those wanting to access spirit bank. In addition it would stop players from importing everything into a new campaign on day 1 since they would need to use gold/resources gained in that campaign in order to make SB available. 

Edited by mystafyi

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Can't say I'm a fan of being in low level gathering areas such as a tier one to two harvesting area and getting ganked by a level 30 on my level 7 and having him take EVERYTHING. I'm used to getting ganked and taking/having stuff taken on Albion Online and such but usually if you're low level theres 'safe areas' for you to not get ganked by max level players. It's quite the turnoff to the game because 1) You cant do anything to stop them. 2) There is no way to retaliate. 3) I'm just trying to gather enough stuff to barely be able to make some better tools so I can even play the damn game.

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3 minutes ago, Xillrosh said:

Can't say I'm a fan of being in low level gathering areas such as a tier one to two harvesting area and getting ganked by a level 30 on my level 7 and having him take EVERYTHING. I'm used to getting ganked and taking/having stuff taken on Albion Online and such but usually if you're low level theres 'safe areas' for you to not get ganked by max level players. It's quite the turnoff to the game because 1) You cant do anything to stop them. 2) There is no way to retaliate. 3) I'm just trying to gather enough stuff to barely be able to make some better tools so I can even play the damn game.

Where were you that you thought was "safe" and got ganked.  Temples are faction safe zones, and the newbie spider area is that way as well.

You can fully suit out to white gear in the temple area if you stick to tier one iron nodes, pigs, and birch I believe.

If you got ganked in the temple, then report it as a bug.

Anywhere else is not a newbie zone.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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