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kajidourden

Leveling

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The idea of levelling is fine, but the whole grind to sacrifice is an absolute Nonsense. It’s grind for grinds sake, if there has to be a levelling system at least let people level doing what they enjoy and plan doing when the game releases. If I want to level hitting rocks and trees then so be it, if I want to level crafting items so be it, if I want to level hitting other players so be it. Currently it’s a nonsense grind that is not fun and is a waste of f###ing time

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On 25/1/2019 at 8:26 PM, Synns said:

The idea of levelling is fine, but the whole grind to sacrifice is an absolute Nonsense. It’s grind for grinds sake, if there has to be a levelling system at least let people level doing what they enjoy and plan doing when the game releases. If I want to level hitting rocks and trees then so be it, if I want to level crafting items so be it, if I want to level hitting other players so be it. Currently it’s a nonsense grind that is not fun and is a waste of f###ing time

The thing is it hasn't to have a leveling system. ACE introduced it because people asked for a "more active progression". They can grant the stat and talent points at the time of creating to customize your character as the advantages / disadvantages were supposed to work.

I really don't like this grinding over and over again, several character slots, vessel upgrades ...

Edited by Extintor

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I don't mind leveling and do find it a fun way to learn more about the classes I'm playing, BUT the distribution of Rank 7+ Mobs is terrible at the moment and a real turn off for leveling 25 to 30. Yes I can go with guildies, but I'll need a decent level 30 to waste there time nannying us or else a single, half decent stealth class can take us out one by one with no problem. Plus there is plenty incentive for them to do so.

  1. They know they will get a good haul from the mobs the level group have been grinding. Gold + Hides etc
  2. As it stands there a very few places to do so and so the ganker(s) get high reward for time invested. Especially Rank 9 & 10 for levels 26 and up.
  3. OK I might be able to build a great leveling group to survive one or maybe 2 gankers, but very hard at current server populations.

"Yeah, get good" you might say, or "Dude, organise with your faction to hold control of the Rank 10 Mob location, it's in their interest to get its people leveled" (and an interesting resource control meta) and I would somewhat agree with these points in a fully released game. But not in pre-alpha test. I want to level lots of toons to try out different builds before release. That's one of the reasons I paid for early access. 

Maybe, leveling via frames was too easy and I'm not looking for an easy game. I just think at this stage in Aplha its too much of a pain. How is siege population looking since the change to frames ?

Just my 2cp.

Good Hunting.

 

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On 12/22/2018 at 7:20 PM, Puffs said:

You can literally reach max level in under an hour at the moment.

Can you link to a page on how to do that? The past two campaigns, PVP really wasn't much fun for my son and I because the max level on any of our characters is 12. I'd love to just hammer out the pointless level grind one afternoon with him so we have a PVP-ready character on each of our accounts.  

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1 hour ago, BucDen said:

Can you link to a page on how to do that? The past two campaigns, PVP really wasn't much fun for my son and I because the max level on any of our characters is 12. I'd love to just hammer out the pointless level grind one afternoon with him so we have a PVP-ready character on each of our accounts.  

Can't really be done now. At least not very easily.

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7 hours ago, BucDen said:

Can you link to a page on how to do that? The past two campaigns, PVP really wasn't much fun for my son and I because the max level on any of our characters is 12. I'd love to just hammer out the pointless level grind one afternoon with him so we have a PVP-ready character on each of our accounts.  

Max level is 30 on any character. There is no max level of 12 afaik. If you are killing mobs for xp, multiply the mob level x 3 that will give you the highest level you can get good xp without it going to crap. Kill mobs and save up the gold. Sacrifice the gold at a temple fire for xp. It is a 1 to 1 ratio for xp.

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IMO, both the leveling experience, and the rational behind it, is going to need a long hard look.

If you're leveling a white vessel as part of a group that knows what it's doing, with good access to a broad range of level appropriate mobs, it's easy. A few hours of grinding & you're done. If you have Level 30 friends that are going to be chewing on high level mobs anyway, you can pretty much group up, go AFK, & get carried.

If you don't have a good group to level with, good mobs to grind on, PvP challenging your noob's access to level appropriate mobs, or if you are leveling a crafted vessel... Leveling is painful.

Frames were too easy, that needed to be fixed before the leveling system could be proven out. Soil was just begging to be afk macro'd. That leaves us with gold from established vessels & grinding r10s (if there are even r10s in the current campaign). High level mobs are supposed to be PvP magnets, so that's not a very friendly environment to be leveling in, and high quality vessels are limited as where they can gain experience.

I would love to hear from JTodd & Blair how they want leveling to play out for both new players and for crafted vessels. If we're supposed to HTFU & learn to not be a noob while leveling our 1st white vessel from 1-30, and if we're supposed to bank gold until we can level our crafted vessels, so be it but I'd like to hear them say it.

IMO, it's not going to be a good new player experience when you force new players to level up using the same locations & resources that you want guilds & factions to have wars over.

Edited by VaMei

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7 hours ago, BucDen said:

Can you link to a page on how to do that? The past two campaigns, PVP really wasn't much fun for my son and I because the max level on any of our characters is 12. I'd love to just hammer out the pointless level grind one afternoon with him so we have a PVP-ready character on each of our accounts.  

When @Puffsposted it was true. It involved crafting items with a sacrifice value far above the gold it cost to buy the required resources. That has since been whacked with the nerf bat.

Your best bet at this point is to ask in faction chat to join a leveling group. Get into a good group with access to high level mobs and you can be done in a few hours. I believe that the Order faction has access to R10 mobs for this campaign.

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Harken back to a time of Giant Turtles with one toon on macro and a pile of AFK toons close enough to gain exp but not aggro.    That is all that we get out of this levelling system...  AFK level grind, nothing else with any fun, choice, or consequence.

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9 hours ago, BucDen said:

Can you link to a page on how to do that? The past two campaigns, PVP really wasn't much fun for my son and I because the max level on any of our characters is 12. I'd love to just hammer out the pointless level grind one afternoon with him so we have a PVP-ready character on each of our accounts.  

BucDen is saying that the highest they have got is level 12 with their toons. After the frames nerf you could still do a combination of meat, axes, the three part charm recipie and a few other odds and sods and get to about level 12. I used to get to level 15 with bandages 

But now, the free axes, the meat and the bandages don't give xp and the Sacrifice parts no longer drop. If you farm the starter area spiders to level 5 you should end up with about 800 gold and so you can buy yourself a couple more levels,  Im trying to remember if the piggies in the temple forest are R2 ? Either way you will need to hit the PvP area somewhere between Level 6 and 9 now.

Good Hunting

 

EDIT: Yes - I have been trying to level lots of toons :)

Edited by Raindog
Addition

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22 hours ago, VaMei said:

IMO, both the leveling experience, and the rational behind it, is going to need a long hard look.

If you're leveling a white vessel as part of a group that knows what it's doing, with good access to a broad range of level appropriate mobs, it's easy. A few hours of grinding & you're done. If you have Level 30 friends that are going to be chewing on high level mobs anyway, you can pretty much group up, go AFK, & get carried.

If you don't have a good group to level with, good mobs to grind on, PvP challenging your noob's access to level appropriate mobs, or if you are leveling a crafted vessel... Leveling is painful.

Frames were too easy, that needed to be fixed before the leveling system could be proven out. Soil was just begging to be afk macro'd. That leaves us with gold from established vessels & grinding r10s (if there are even r10s in the current campaign). High level mobs are supposed to be PvP magnets, so that's not a very friendly environment to be leveling in, and high quality vessels are limited as where they can gain experience.

I would love to hear from JTodd & Blair how they want leveling to play out for both new players and for crafted vessels. If we're supposed to HTFU & learn to not be a noob while leveling our 1st white vessel from 1-30, and if we're supposed to bank gold until we can level our crafted vessels, so be it but I'd like to hear them say it.

IMO, it's not going to be a good new player experience when you force new players to level up using the same locations & resources that you want guilds & factions to have wars over.

10

I have not posted much over the last couple years as most people say what needs to be said already.  Most of the big bugs we find go directly to support in email as to not perpetuate the faulty systems. But I think this case is special and needs a bit more attention - As I really "dislike" the current direction.

I read that this whole thing came about because a few spoke out for the need for some type of Achievement satisfaction - I find it VERY difficult to believe this is satisfying in any way to anyone.

So I just started framing out everything I would like to say about the leveling system and the current nerf and the total waste of time to try and even get a green vessel to 30.......but it would turn into a book and 95% of it has been stated in this and/or other threads.

One thing i did not see mentioned though was the fact that this "Created Uncle Bob" or at the least a bigger divide between the haves and haves not - Those that had the logistics early on are all now running in Epic Vessels already and those that would like one will either "fail" or grind themselves into oblivion.  My son and I will be fine but I really feel for the new guys taking a look into the game.  If I was new, I guarantee that I would not play this game past lvl 15.  This is not to say that that others should not…… just not “Me”.  I would simply call the investment a write off and move on. 

I "heard" it mentioned that ACE/Blair thinks that now people will need to fight for the Leveling areas and creating this conflict is a desirable method to encourage PVP.   Do I even need to explain how impossible it will be for a person to "PVP" without even having skills?  The idea of a talent tree is fine but I honestly the full kit should be acquired by level 10 and rest some new gravy.

For "Me", even aside from the recent 5.8.2 sacrifice nerf, I have not had any "Fun" at all with the talent system.  To be honest, I think it is a joke and feel sorry for whom ever planned it out.

Luckily, I believe ACE will see the foolishness of all this and fix it soon and if not soon – “We” will simply take a break until someone pulls head from @$$.

I know ACE gets tired of only negative feedback so let me say – “My son and I are still with you and believe you are creating something quite amazing that we plan to enjoy for A LOT OF YEARS”.  But recently, every time I see the “CF” acronym in my mind I think – Cluster Fudged.

Just honest “Personal” feedback -

Edited by Mayhem_

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On 2/7/2019 at 7:41 AM, Mayhem_ said:

 The idea of a talent tree is fine but I honestly the full kit should be acquired by level 10 and rest some new gravy. 

This is the main thing. Level 10 should take 10-20mins to acquire,and give you the necessary class toolkit to PvP. The extra 20 levels should be about character refinement not whole pieces.

Edited by Zatch
I derped

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9 hours ago, Zatch said:

This is the main thing l. Level 10 should take 10-20mins to acquire,and give you the necessary class toolkit to PvP. The extra 20 levels should be about character refinement not whole pieces.

I would be happy with removing skill gating behind levels. All skills should be available at the start, level 1. Let levels 2-30 be refinement and improvements. I hope this whole iteration of leveling post 5.7 is just a bad dream we all will wake up from in 5.9. Grind for the sake of grind just to pvp was not a core concept, in fact one could argue it was just the thing ace wanted to avoid. https://crowfall.com/en/faq/gameplay-and-systems/combat/

Quote

 

Since Crowfall is a very different game, we’ve approached this problem from a few different angles.

First, we are using a skill-based system; there are no levels. Without levels, the difference between a “maxed” character and a starting character is far less severe.

Second, we designed the game to have a much flatter power curve, meaning that your biggest gains for any skill (or attribute) come early and the remaining gains are all on a steep “diminishing returns” curve.

Additionally, access to equipment will be largely based on acquiring it rather than an arbitrary “level” restriction. To add to this, the power curve for equipment has been dramatically “flattened,” as well. Power gained from equipment is much smaller than in a level-based game, but still meaningful enough that players aren’t running about naked.

More action-related mechanics such as dashes and blocks will create opportunities for new players to avoid damage that isn’t based on a random number generator. Additionally, terrain and position make a huge difference, making the game much more tactical.

Lastly, because we use passive training as the primary mechanism for advancement, there is no grind for player powers or camping of monsters to find that “one rare item”. Players will essentially have a full arsenal of powers to use from the beginning.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I would be happy with removing skill gating behind levels. All skills should be available at the start, level 1. Let levels 2-30 be refinement and improvements. I hope this whole iteration of leveling post 5.7 is just a bad dream we all will wake up from in 5.9. Grind for the sake of grind just to pvp was not a core concept, in fact one could argue it was just the thing ace wanted to avoid. https://crowfall.com/en/faq/gameplay-and-systems/combat/

 

They are only meeting the request of VETs players who have asked to take advantage of allowing them to easily win a battle with grind and more grind wall. For me, the game returned to the original base: a game focused on battle of thrones where everyone can win and no one can trust anyone with very much betrayal.

Edited by hamon

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6 minutes ago, hamon said:

They are only meeting the request of VETs players who have asked to take advantage of allowing them to easily win a battle with grind and more grind wall. For me, the game returned to the original base: a game focused on battle of thrones where everyone can win and no one can trust anyone with very much betrayal.

 

6 minutes ago, hamon said:

They are only meeting the request of VETs players who have asked to take advantage of allowing them to easily win a battle with grind and more grind wall. For me, the game returned to the original base: a game focused on battle of thrones where everyone can win and no one can trust anyone with very much betrayal.

The dev partner boards are in alignment with the posts here.  Nobody likes the leveling system. 

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I think the main problem with the leveling system is that the gap between a "low" level and a maxed character is too damn big. If it was about not being at your best but being able to compete while leveling things would be a whole lot better, but, as it is now, running with a non-maxed character is suicide. You will get wrecked 10 out of 10 times.

There is no actual feeling of progresion 'cuz all levels before Max suck. Level 1 you suck real bad, level 10 you suck just bad, level 15 you unlock the first shinnies but still sucks, level 25 you suck a bit (but just enough that being competitive isn't really viable). There is no progression because anyone who isn't a masochist (not judging) will have to do the leveling before playing the real PvP game and get some real fun.

The worst ofender iMHO is, like people said before, the gating of powers -- Class defining powers in some cases -- behind an un-fun leveling process.

I woud like to reccomend giving acess to the basic powers from lvl 1 but have them be downgraded (?) versions. Where the player could, using the same tree we have now, unlock the normal power whilist leveling. So an assassin would get a stealth power that has some sort of drawback (worse movement speed or a stealth penalty), a druid would get healing powers but they would, I don't know, generate more essense or heal less (No idea what is going on with druids anymore)?

In a certain way it would be like the power upgrades we have in the promotions tree but earlier and not as game changing. Basically you would downgrade the basic powers and create "new" upgrades (that would really just be the powers we have now thus avoiding powercreep and balance changes).

Would that solve the leveling problem? No way. But it would help quite a bit with how that leveling is perceived. Worst case it would at least make the leveling process more interesting. Havin to kill boars is bad, but having to kill boars using only auto-attacks is just wrong.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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I'm in favor of the leveling system only to the extent it gives new players an on-ramp to learn the game, or for veteran players to learn a new class.

In the context of making leveling spots important to fight over, there's better ways to make people fight over them, which are already in game. Those high rank mobs are already valuable for their gold, hide, and other resource drops. If there needs to be more motivation, find another way to make them valuable apart from level grinding.

I would suggest that any vessel or new character for which the player has already played the class to level 30 just be instantly leveled to 30 on creation for that player.

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f9nbMS7.jpg


...  fill another experience point bar

...  fill another experience point bar

...  fill another experience point bar

...  fill another experience point bar

guess what we get to do again today!  Kill (rats) or spiders or cats or zombies to


...  fill another experience point bar

/fin

 

Edited by Frykka

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You should be gaining the base abilities each early level to 10. Refinements and additions to 20. Final class choice and specials to 30. New upgraded vessel. Have a choice. Same build as before and level to 30 again but get improvements in the stats, but lose nothing from the original vessels build and level.  Or a respec and level to 30 again with only gaining the stat point difference in the new run to 30. 

You should not forget how to play a class just because of the new vessel. In fact I would say once you build a white body of a class it gets saved that you mastered that class, and any new vessel of a class you mastered, would start at that "level". Saved account wide, so you never have to do that "starter" again. Any new levels with a new body and mastered class would just be refining what you already know. 

 

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