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Jubenei

What is supposed to be the role of a knight at this point?

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I played a knight since long ago and now i roled a templar, cause its much more easy to play. I mean the knight is pretty tanky and has some interesting defense abilties but, they don`t help if you are not attacked. And you do little damage compared to other classes. I did some pve and the templar is so much more easier and convinient to play i have to say. Can really see a reason for the knight existence unlike they come up with some sort of protecion mechanic for the healers. This is just my first impression of both classes. And i had elekin race for both classes, which give you a second charge for both classes, but the parry of the templar is so much better then the block of the knight in my opinion.

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Well Swordsman can do alot of dmg, Sentinels CC the fk out of people, tanky one im not sure about thought now.

Im playing Sentinel myself atm and i can lock people down quite easily and people physical have a hard time getting away. And when they do you can out run them on a moutn due to talents.
You cant do anything bout stealthier atm though since u get 0 perception so they could be standing on your head and u still wont see them

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Posted (edited)

The role of Knight with the current build potential is to be a brute of sorts for your teammates. You take some hits but you can dish out some hits as well. Knights are excellent initiators and can also chase targets fairly easy to stop them from escaping. I don't believe Knights will ever be top dps, but I do see them as being one of the most tanky in the game. I would love to see better tank tree options that buff the team to make that spec trade off the damage for the more supportive abilities.

Edited by KanashiGD
corrected my statement

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2 hours ago, KanashiGD said:

The role of Knight with the current build potential is to be a brute of sorts for your teammates. You take some hits but you can dish out some hits as well. Knights are excellent initiators and can also chase targets fairly easy to stop them from escaping. I don't believe Knights will ever be top dps, but I do see them as being the most tanky in the game. I would love to see better tank tree options that buff the team to make that spec trade off the damage for the more supportive abilities.

Based on what?

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52 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Based on what?

50%+ Resists, 15k+ HP when buffed, and a skill called Block. In mid-tier gear.

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1 minute ago, KanashiGD said:

50%+ Resists, 15k+ HP when buffed, and a skill called Block. In mid-tier gear.

What buffs? 

Other classes can wear plate too and their heals are infinitely better than block.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Arkade said:

What buffs? 

Other classes can wear plate too and their heals are infinitely better than block.

Cleric Holy Aura and Juggernaut Toughness.

Other classes may have better self sustain. A knight in a party, which is how I consider balance, doesn't need self sustain. However classes like Champ have a bit too much self sustain and "appear" to be super tanky. If you are going to balance off of 1v1 then we may have to agree to disagree.

Edited by KanashiGD

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32 minutes ago, KanashiGD said:

50%+ Resists, 15k+ HP when buffed, and a skill called Block. In mid-tier gear.

well my paladin is sitting on 12k hp unbuffed can heal alot of dmg, had parry which reduces dmg taken and then retaliate with an aoe knockdown (Not quite as much as much dmg as block though) he can buff himself to 20k HP where knight cannot.
imo pitfighters, paladins and mymradon are all tankier than knights they all sustain themself realy well where knight can not self sustain, maybe with a couple healers spamming heal on them they be tankier but so will the other classes too.
Knight roll right now is to be annoying with there chain pull more than anything else which isnt a good spot for them imo

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9 minutes ago, KanashiGD said:

Cleric Holy Aura and Juggernaut Toughness.

Other classes may have better self sustain. A knight in a party, which is how I consider balance, doesn't need self sustain. However classes like Champ have a bit too much self sustain and "appear" to be super tanky. If you are going to balance off of 1v1 then we may have to agree to disagree.

Holy Aura and Toughness aren't that great as neither increases your HP, just your max, and any class can get those.

It's not just about 1 vs 1. If you are putting together a group and have to choose between taking a Champ, Myrmidon, Templar or Knight, are you honestly going to take a Knight? What does a Knight bring to a group that those other classes don't? Chasing down a runner maybe, especially with the Swordsman spec, but all of those other classes do more damage and have self sustain, meaning your cleric won't have to work as hard.

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3 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Holy Aura and Toughness aren't that great as neither increases your HP, just your max, and any class can get those.

It's not just about 1 vs 1. If you are putting together a group and have to choose between taking a Champ, Myrmidon, Templar or Knight, are you honestly going to take a Knight? What does a Knight bring to a group that those other classes don't? Chasing down a runner maybe, especially with the Swordsman spec, but all of those other classes do more damage and have self sustain, meaning your cleric won't have to work as hard.

Increasing your max HP is increasing your HP. I assume you are asking for some permanent bonus? I did say buffs, and it would be nice if toughness was a toggle ability. Unless I'm being outnumbered 2-3 my healers are not working hard TMK. So either the class is tanky or I'm just really good. Take your pick.

4 minutes ago, veeshan said:

well my paladin is sitting on 12k hp unbuffed can heal alot of dmg, had parry which reduces dmg taken and then retaliate with an aoe knockdown (Not quite as much as much dmg as block though) he can buff himself to 20k HP where knight cannot.
imo pitfighters, paladins and mymradon are all tankier than knights they all sustain themself realy well where knight can not self sustain, maybe with a couple healers spamming heal on them they be tankier but so will the other classes too.
Knight roll right now is to be annoying with there chain pull more than anything else which isnt a good spot for them imo

Do we have tests showcasing all of those class/specs and their efficiencies? If not then we are all just spouting personal experiences. I would be down to do some tests, I'm not in the business of being right I'm in the business of data. If you have the data link or post it here. I would be down to dive more into that info a bit more as I've not extensively tested outside of Knight and Ranger.

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1 minute ago, KanashiGD said:

Increasing your max HP is increasing your HP. I assume you are asking for some permanent bonus? I did say buffs, and it would be nice if toughness was a toggle ability. Unless I'm being outnumbered 2-3 my healers are not working hard TMK. So either the class is tanky or I'm just really good. Take your pick.

Do we have tests showcasing all of those class/specs and their efficiencies? If not then we are all just spouting personal experiences. I would be down to do some tests, I'm not in the business of being right I'm in the business of data. If you have the data link or post it here. I would be down to dive more into that info a bit more as I've not extensively tested outside of Knight and Ranger.

Knight has 10k hp with same gear paladin had 12k (Knight also using a blue vessel compared to paladin base vessel)
I started as a knight got knew vessel for it and then quickly went to paladin as my main, Knights do get much more mobility than the paladin though. easier to get away from a paladin compared to a knight (almost impossible to get away atleast from sentinel).
Knight are pretty good in super small scale since u can lock somone down fairly well or stop them doing what they want to do.

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9 minutes ago, veeshan said:

Knight has 10k hp with same gear paladin had 12k (Knight also using a blue vessel compared to paladin base vessel)
I started as a knight got knew vessel for it and then quickly went to paladin as my main, Knights do get much more mobility than the paladin though. easier to get away from a paladin compared to a knight (almost impossible to get away atleast from sentinel).
Knight are pretty good in super small scale since u can lock somone down fairly well or stop them doing what they want to do.

Specifically is that base vessel hitting the same resists? The HP is good but if it burns faster it doesn't help as much as it may seem.

I can agree with you on those extra points. I consider mobility as an orthogonal point to tankiness because it is a bit more universal but being able to avoid damage is still important in that calculation. The OP was asking the purpose, I feel like I clarified that. I'm not saying Knight is the strongest class, I made an edit to my first post to "one" of the most tankiest.

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19 hours ago, veeshan said:

Knight has 10k hp with same gear paladin had 12k (Knight also using a blue vessel compared to paladin base vessel)
I started as a knight got knew vessel for it and then quickly went to paladin as my main, Knights do get much more mobility than the paladin though. easier to get away from a paladin compared to a knight (almost impossible to get away atleast from sentinel).
Knight are pretty good in super small scale since u can lock somone down fairly well or stop them doing what they want to do.

Paladin is the healing spec of Templar.  You're tanking on a healer? 

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5 hours ago, mandalore said:

Paladin is the healing spec of Templar.  You're tanking on a healer? 

There naturally tankiers than knights thats the problem

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As somebody who only plays paladin and crusader you’re out if you’re damn mind if you think that’s true.  Paladin crumbles  like a wet napkin if targeted by ranged or coordinated dps. 

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6 minutes ago, mandalore said:

As somebody who only plays paladin and crusader you’re out if you’re damn mind if you think that’s true.  Paladin crumbles  like a wet napkin if targeted by ranged or coordinated dps. 

you have met good frind mr tree or mr well anything that block los realy cause u can fully heal behind that while they cant get LoS on u to do enough dmg.

I play both a paladin and a Sentinel (Although sentinel suffers from E spam like all CC focused classes atm) paladin is clear winner in survivability compared to sentinel in large and small scale however knights do get a pull so one more gap closer than paladins they also do less dps though than a pali

 

Edited by veeshan

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Trying out a Knight currently (swordsman spec) and if I’m honest I’m finding the class very underwhelming and quite boring to play really. Out matched by many dps classes but not as tanky as others. It seems to have very little that other classes can’t also offer 🤷🏼‍♂️

Tried out the shield spec aswell, more shields and hp but even in epic vessel it’s terrible. Where the hell is the tankiness, do better with a 2 axed Myrmidon 

Edited by Synns
Extra info to add

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On 1/8/2019 at 4:30 PM, Arkade said:

What does a Knight bring to a group that those other classes don't? Chasing down a runner maybe, especially with the Swordsman spec, but all of those other classes do more damage and have self sustain, meaning your cleric won't have to work as hard.

I think this is the crux of the problem here. I run a knight in my guild groups and I am the only one. What I bring to the table in big fights is dropping the standard more frequently, soaking some damage and having the ability to initiate the large group fights by being pulled and surviving. Once the fight gets rolling I usually find myself alternating between running in the assist train trying to lock down targets (dodge remove, chain pull, shout root, obliviate knockdown, etc; and peeling for our called targets with a suppress slam or slashing reflect and body blocking. I've built a lot of variations of dword and CC but every single one of them has the standard with surging spirit because despite having good armor values I feel somewhat squishy. Perhaps that has something to do with my awful positioning and overconfidence :P

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On 1/9/2019 at 7:21 PM, mandalore said:

As somebody who only plays paladin and crusader you’re out if you’re damn mind if you think that’s true.  Paladin crumbles  like a wet napkin if targeted by ranged or coordinated dps. 

Isn't true of anything that's focus fired save myrms and and put fighters?  Issue with the comparison (keep in mind limited experience on my  part):

Block is inferior to righteous party as far as an RMB goes?

Paladin spec can buff more hp and has some self sustain?

On the flip side, Templars have very little CC.  Which does matter.

Templars and knights are both pretty squishy though compared to the other two tank classes. 

 

 

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