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Phr00t

Ulti feels underwhelming

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So I've been playing a bunch of confessor and had to take a look at life on the other side of the fence, and checked out some ultis for other DPS classes:

Ranger:

  •  40% lifesteal until 30 seconds or 30% life restored (sustain)
  • Can continue attacking (offensive)

 Champion (Invincible Warrior)

  • Damage Barrier (sustain)
  • Massive Heal over Time (sustain)
  • Can continue attacking (offensive)

Confessor Ulti:

  • Blinds (defensive)
  • Invisibility (defensive)
  • Unable to attack (useless)

 

Compared to these other classes, with a Confessor being a primary DPS class, we have a completely different ulti than the others. Other DPS specs that can already self-heal or sustain, get more of the same from their ultimates, AND can continue attacking through them.

Confessors are left with a purely defensive ultimate. Yes it gets people off you in a siege situation and allows teammates to peel, but I feel like there should be some changes, or a second, more offensive, option that could be taken. 


If we were to change the original, I would remove the Blind and add something like a not-insignificant burst of fire damage when emerging from stealth, allowing the confessor to choose from retreating to a better position or using it offensively. Alternately, add a barrier to the ability or a similar lifesteal effect to ranger, if defense is the preferred use of the ultimate.


An offensive ultimate option could be a fire damage DOT, or some sort of damage+knockback or PBAOE cyclone ability. Unsure what would be useful but not game breaking on the offense side.

 

Edited by Phr00t

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Yes Confessors do good damage, because they have to. They have no sustain, have a very limited resource bar in Mana, and few built-in defensive options that don't need to be made up by Disciplines. I just think the ulti doesn't fit in their kit and something new would help round them out. A very short duration ability with no lingering effects, like gaining health back such as Ranger or Champion, feels out of place in comparison to the other classes.

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Posted (edited)
On 12/31/2018 at 11:49 AM, Phr00t said:

Confessor Ulti:

  • Blinds (defensive)
  • Invisibility (defensive)
  • Unable to attack (useless)

 

 

 

Yes this ult is odd there are some uses here. Casting Hellfire Aura into ult allows it to proc.  If you're the inquisitor class you can proc the feel the burn dot on multiple targets + the dmg is provides. Any debuff in the troubadour line works the same way.  Granted all those options are better suited toward the sanctifier line since you have plate.   If leather ever becomes descent any change to or ult will put us at the levels of the current plate confessor which would be broken.

Edited by MrErad
had the response in the quote

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9 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

U get to use it twice at a very short rate of “charge”, sins in comparisen get it once.  

 

Just being able to use it twice is good.

There are a few who can use their ult twice . My trapper can ult twice be invuln and life leech 40% of his attacks while dishing out damage where my confessor can poof out of existence while the rest of the crew does work not to mention it comes back just as fast.  So 10s of invlun with blinding people and no attacks.  So for 5 seconds someone can bandage for free if its a 1vs1 all the while the confessor gets to do nothing. Either the confessor ult  needs a mana regen component , damage increase after exit  , or maybe just increase the duration of the blind.  

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On 5.1.2019 at 7:02 PM, Soulreaver said:

U get to use it twice at a very short rate of “charge”, sins in comparisen get it once.  

 

Just being able to use it twice is good.

Would be kinda wonderful if sins could use 8sec i-frames, while being moved to the stealthtray 2 times in a row, isnt it?

-----

The value from the confessor's ulti is the ability to reposition himself while i-framed and stealthed. This is more as a templar for example gets. To be able to use this twice in a row, is extremly strong and doesnt need to be adjusted. Prolly less handy in 1v1 - smallscale, but insanly usefull in bigger groupfights. 

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Knights probaly have the weakest ulti tbh aoe pull that isnt very large range and small amount of dmg if even hits most times it doesnt, does make you immune for a second though.

templar seems kinda underwhelming aswell aoe blind and a bit of dmg isnt even alot, Would be nice if it gave some pips and maybe reset the charge CC since they cant realy gap close atm would be nice if they could double charge at the cost of there ulti at times.

Confessor ultis actually rather good tbh, they have huge dmg already but they are rather squishy so there ulti complements them there since they dont realy need more dmg. and there ulti almost guarantee and escape if they need to escape, also allows you to get through walls too

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On 1/7/2019 at 6:26 AM, veeshan said:

Knights probaly have the weakest ulti tbh aoe pull that isnt very large range and small amount of dmg if even hits most times it doesnt, does make you immune for a second though.

templar seems kinda underwhelming aswell aoe blind and a bit of dmg isnt even alot, Would be nice if it gave some pips and maybe reset the charge CC since they cant realy gap close atm would be nice if they could double charge at the cost of there ulti at times.

Confessor ultis actually rather good tbh, they have huge dmg already but they are rather squishy so there ulti complements them there since they dont realy need more dmg. and there ulti almost guarantee and escape if they need to escape, also allows you to get through walls too

The knights ult is wonky with how the physics works.  I've seen it do its normal thing or launch players a mile away. The upside though is the knight still can continue the attack after his ult where the confessors is purely an escape. I can't think of any other class that makes it you cant do anything for 5s.

Funny you comment about the Templars but I find it actually acceptable.  You get the blind , aoe dmg, invuln for 4-5s (which you can get a skill off during that time) , max hp increase & if you're healer spec'd you can actually refill it during that time. It makes it very solid for the templars rotation in fights.   I guess thats my biggest gripe with the confessors is that every other class can choose to use theirs defensively while still combining some type of offense to press for a kill if they choose to.  Confessors get to relocate & sit for 5s during the whole thing or up to a whole 10s of doing nothing. In a pvp game that is a lot of wasted time .  Maybe allow us to break the invisibility portion so we can press the attack or use it for defense & escape if we choose not to attack.

 

The confessors skill set is rock solid other than the ult but at least this forum is actually having some posts debating the class and possible tweaks to it. You actually see more confessors in 5.8 than there were in 5.7 .  We view ourselves as the DPS class but last i knew we were supposed to be more of the AOE /Control.  We'll see how that pans out when the frostweaver makes its appearance.

@mandalore

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27 minutes ago, MrErad said:


Funny you comment about the Templars but I find it actually acceptable.  You get the blind , aoe dmg, invuln for 4-5s (which you can get a skill off during that time) , max hp increase & if you're healer spec'd you can actually refill it during that time. It makes it very solid for the templars rotation in fights.   I guess thats my biggest gripe with the confessors is that every other class can choose to use theirs defensively while still combining some type of offense to press for a kill if they choose to.  Confessors get to relocate & sit for 5s during the whole thing or up to a whole 10s of doing nothing. In a pvp game that is a lot of wasted time .  Maybe allow us to break the invisibility portion so we can press the attack or use it for defense & escape if we choose not to attack.

 

@mandalore

My issue with the Paladin Templar Ult is that if you compare it to the other healing ults it's not even close to as viable.  I could understand if it was a little under viable but still had legit uses that it shined in (brilliance joke there) but it doesn't even compete.  Lets break the ults down for context:

Miracle is the healing cleric ult and it's by far the largest heal in the game.  Miracle heals for upwards of 2.5-3k for your entire group, gives 5% crit for 15 sec, returns a decent amount of mana to the caster and does the typically ult abilities (invulns but that's being changed to a barrier based off HP,  cleanses CC and can be used whenever).

Essence Scram is the Earthwarden Ult and its the only healing ult that scales based off % of HP for its heal.  Depending on on how much essence you have when you cast it it does between 25-35% of the entire groups health over a few seconds, removes expose and dizzy effects, does a little dmg to enemies in the range and the the typical ult abilities. 

Brilliance blinds enemy with 5 yards (5 yards, just let that sink in), does fire (easily mitigated) damage based off your weapon damage (sad panda is sad) but it does give you 20% bonus HP but your effective HP doesn't increase with that 20% so you still have to be healed to get that 20% (gaining that 20% to your top end might lower your effective HP making you suddenly able to be executed or angel of death passive when you weren't before).  Yes, it gives the same typical ult abilities but it's not even in the same league as the other healers.

Druid healers have their own ult, cleric healers have their own ult, why doesn't the Paladin Templar?  They clearly intend for us to be healers, we use support power to scale our heals now (which we didn't before).  

Halashace is our templar dev, give us a little more love to make us closer. 

@mhalashace

 

 

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Yep thats a good question on the Paladin spec for templar it would be nice to have an alternative pick for it. I would probably still run the default ult if it was an option over more healing.  Hopefully as time goes on we'll get more options since we all have our grievances but the Templar still has other options during that time but it might be a moot point since all Invulns are barriers now.  I'm sure we're going to have a whole bunch of issues with that switch alone for all classes.  I expect to see more shield breakers now and might even try it in my confessor.

I guess indirectly this might be a buff to the confessors ult now.  Barrier + invisibility and ill still be able to stay alive.

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44 minutes ago, mandalore said:

My issue with the Paladin Templar Ult is that if you compare it to the other healing ults it's not even close to as viable.  I could understand if it was a little under viable but still had legit uses that it shined in (brilliance joke there) but it doesn't even compete.  Lets break the ults down for context:

Miracle is the healing cleric ult and it's by far the largest heal in the game.  Miracle heals for upwards of 2.5-3k for your entire group, gives 5% crit for 15 sec, returns a decent amount of mana to the caster and does the typically ult abilities (invulns but that's being changed to a barrier based off HP,  cleanses CC and can be used whenever).

Essence Scram is the Earthwarden Ult and its the only healing ult that scales based off % of HP for its heal.  Depending on on how much essence you have when you cast it it does between 25-35% of the entire groups health over a few seconds, removes expose and dizzy effects, does a little dmg to enemies in the range and the the typical ult abilities. 

Brilliance blinds enemy with 5 yards (5 yards, just let that sink in), does fire (easily mitigated) damage based off your weapon damage (sad panda is sad) but it does give you 20% bonus HP but your effective HP doesn't increase with that 20% so you still have to be healed to get that 20% (gaining that 20% to your top end might lower your effective HP making you suddenly able to be executed or angel of death passive when you weren't before).  Yes, it gives the same typical ult abilities but it's not even in the same league as the other healers.

Druid healers have their own ult, cleric healers have their own ult, why doesn't the Paladin Templar?  They clearly intend for us to be healers, we use support power to scale our heals now (which we didn't before).  

Halashace is our templar dev, give us a little more love to make us closer. 

@mhalashace

 

 

 

Holy Warrior w/ the Fanatical talent from the Paladin tree is closest analogue Templar has to "Miracle". It heals in the same ballpark as Miracle.

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11 minutes ago, mhalashace said:

 

Holy Warrior w/ the Fanatical talent from the Paladin tree is closest analogue Templar has to "Miracle". It heals in the same ballpark as Miracle.

That doesn't change that the ult is underwhelming.  I do commend you on the talent changes you made in the last pass over for Templar.  It needs a little more and it will be as good, its close now but still lagging behind. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MrErad said:

The knights ult is wonky with how the physics works.  I've seen it do its normal thing or launch players a mile away. The upside though is the knight still can continue the attack after his ult where the confessors is purely an escape. I can't think of any other class that makes it you cant do anything for 5s.

Funny you comment about the Templars but I find it actually acceptable.  You get the blind , aoe dmg, invuln for 4-5s (which you can get a skill off during that time) , max hp increase & if you're healer spec'd you can actually refill it during that time. It makes it very solid for the templars rotation in fights.   I guess thats my biggest gripe with the confessors is that every other class can choose to use theirs defensively while still combining some type of offense to press for a kill if they choose to.  Confessors get to relocate & sit for 5s during the whole thing or up to a whole 10s of doing nothing. In a pvp game that is a lot of wasted time .  Maybe allow us to break the invisibility portion so we can press the attack or use it for defense & escape if we choose not to attack.

 

The confessors skill set is rock solid other than the ult but at least this forum is actually having some posts debating the class and possible tweaks to it. You actually see more confessors in 5.8 than there were in 5.7 .  We view ourselves as the DPS class but last i knew we were supposed to be more of the AOE /Control.  We'll see how that pans out when the frostweaver makes its appearance.

@mandalore

I actually forgot bout the invun tied to the templar ulti, Max HP bonus is rather pointless cause you dont actual gain hp unless ur healed above it which you normaly wont be so it pretty much has minimal use. i can buff my hp to like 20k with like 3 hp buffs but doesnt change my current HP is still 11k

Edited by veeshan

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With the change of the ultimatemechanics, the templar and knight got actually a buff, while sins, myrms druids and rangers got screwed. Confessors are pretty much untouched by that tho ;)

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This ult is supposed to be used for positioning, you get a blink and several seconds of not just invisibility but INVINCIBILITY! More so than even the Invincible Warrior, you use this ability to make distance with which you press the attack, or, by contrast, to close in if you're using the subclass that has a range of 7m.

Although, I could see adding a little AoE damage to it at the cast location and end of invisibility location without any real problems, the ability itself is fine.

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