Wrain

Mandatory changes that NEED TO BE ADDRESSED in this game.

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     Several months back, I posted a quick review of my thoughts on the direction of Crowfall.  I got ALOT of feedback both good and bad.  Surprisingly, most people seemed to actually AGREE with me on my post(s)/topic and so I thought I would do a second update.  

     As many of you know, alot of players/backers have either quit or have lost interest in this games direction.  Not surprising as alot of players purchased this with HIGH HOPES OF THE NEXT SHADOWBANE.  I fully respect and understand this is  not shadowbane 2, (or it would be called that) but marketing a game with some very very similar catch phrases and ideas can get you into hot water with gamers as its misleading.   (aka look at Shroud of the Avatar..(cough cough) UO fail anyone???)

Changes NEEDING rework/revamp.

1.  While you did take the time to "speed up" harvesting and make it more "mario-esque", The game and amount of work is still just WAY to farming/survival dependent.  If you want you actual core playerbase (and yes I do mean the Shadowbane/pvp diehards), stop catering and turning this into the next "zombie (fill in the blanks here) survial game 2016/2017/2018.  If I wanted to play RUST/Conan Exiles/and the whole rest of these fad games I would be.

2. The game is about COMBAT/THRONE RULE.  Once again, less time in these janky simple-safe talent trees/skills.  UO/Shadowbane/(ORIGINAL VANILLA WOW!!) all let us make massive screwed up toons that were just trash!  But we had FUN doing it!!!  It was about experimentation and LEARNING/individuality.  This hand holding playing "safe" is boring and insulting.  If I want to make a mino/dual-wield/busted-stealth/healer...then let me do it.  Ya he sucks, but you know what??? I'm UNIQUE!!!

3.  Some players...DO-NOT-WANT-TO-HARVEST-FARM. PERIOD. As in PERIOD.  Give us starter weapons and give us mob camps and let us do what we do best.  Again, WAY WAY to much time into this crafting/harvest scenario.  You are FORCING us to an extent to do it.  I have NO..NO desire along with my friends to smash trees and rocks.  We want WEAPONS/KILLING.

4.  The stances really really need to be looked into.  1 Key should cycle between ranged/melee.  To be honest, even making it possible to just not leave your combat stance to go BANG ON MORE TREES AND ROCKS (as that's what seems once again to be the focal point of this game so far) should be possible.  It's not smooth, its not fluid, and its unnecessary. 

There are 3 Major MMO's pouring out in 2019/2020 (besides this game).  The truth is one or two of these games will take the market of core pvpers.  I actually FEEL the devs are listening/correcting/responding to our concerns but i'm begging the team to really REALLY look into reddit posts/old forum comparison posts/etc and take a good long hard look at what "core" base you are aiming for.  (My girl walked in and stared at this game while I was playing..her response??? "It looks like a kid's game...") 

I want this game to flourish, but when friends quit because the game feels like a "farm simulator" there's a MAJOR issue.  Mark the maps on next update with "mob locations", prime harvest area's etc.  If you want players to "stick" and actually STAY in testing...give us what we signed up for...WAR.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Even I’m not this prentious and rancorous.  I’m need to up my anger skill tree.  

Speaking as a diehard SB fan and hardcore pvp fanatic, even I can’t support most of your points.  You want a moba or pubg and Skyrim’s bastard child.  SB was still farming heavy.  It was a mistake in SB to allow so many people to invest time into the 200 trash builds people would make not knowing the game.  They need to at least mitigate the haves from custard over the have nots or the game dies just as quickly as SB; allowing noobs to invest weeks or months building some non viable trash and them leaving thinking everything is trash was one of the downfalls of 2003 SB.  

What three major games?  CU is RvRvR only so your allies and foes are predetermined.  AOC is currently testing as a MOBA and the projected PvP is so watered down it can barely be called PvP.  I can’t possibly think what you consider the other.  If CF fails it will be because CF failed not Bc some other trash game stole its players.  I’ve given money to all three; CF has the most to offer imo. 

Edited by mandalore

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Tell me...WHAT farming are you even speaking of in Shadowbane?  Ohhhh wait; you mean COMBAT FARMING.

Thank you for proving my point.

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There are plenty of monsters and critters out in the various maps to crush for EXP--plus the loot from which you can sacrifice. As to you lack of desire to to crush trees and other non-deadly things, you can certainly do that. Many people in guilds or smaller non-guild collections, are happy to do the harvesting to make gear for people to go out and kill with. I'm unsure if your post is genuine, or some sort of niche copypasta meme that I'm not aware of, but assuming your post is made in earnest, I would suggest you seek out such guilds/non-guilded collection of players, or even visit the trade stalls in the free city, or ask about in general chat for what people are willing to trade for in return for said armaments. There is more than one solution to your list of grievances. You need only seek them out.

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18 minutes ago, Wrain said:

Tell me...WHAT farming are you even speaking of in Shadowbane?  Ohhhh wait; you mean COMBAT FARMING.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

If you think that there wasn't farming in SB, you either were not in a guild/nation that participated in a lot of banes, you duped a ton, or someone else in your guild was shouldering the work of farming.

If you are trying to differentiate killing mobs vs hitting nodes, both are about equivalent in how exciting they are to do. Which is really not very exciting at all.

Even with higher gold drop rates, banes/bulwarks/siege weapons/control rods were all pretty pricey. Some people just were not aware of that due to someone else doing a lot of that farming for them or putting a lot of work into open cities.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Phylor.the.Jester said:

If you are trying to differentiate killing mobs vs hitting nodes, both are about equivalent in how exciting they are to do. Which is really not very exciting at all.

 

Please....just stop with these type of posts/comments.  ABOVE IS THE PROBLEM WITH GAMERS TODAY IN MMO'S.  You're basically stating its "boring and dry" but hey, you gotta drink alot of it before actually "enjoying" it.

No, there is a HUGE difference between farming mobs/npcs in a WELL CODED CHALLENGING combat game vs AN OBJECT THAT YOU JUST STAND THERE BEATING ON REPEATEDLY.  Does a tree somehow threaten your character?  Will it actually kill you? Or maybe those rocks you are pounding on and collecting pine-cones are going to attack as well?

I appreciate your feedback but this acceptance of something even LESS thought engaging is just not acceptable. In ANY product even outside of gaming.  Unless I want to farm watching a movie/tv/netflix OR possibly just load my brain up on drugs...POUNDING ON TREES/ROCKS IS NOT THE SAME NOR AS FUN AS RISK/DYING TO MOBS WHO ACTUALLY FIGHT BACK.

And I OWNED a full city in Shadowbane Live as well as a guild.  Having an NPC roll items while i'm out ACTUALLY DOING COMBAT is not the same as having me or my friends POUND ON TREES AND ROCKS FOR APPLES!!!!

Edited by Wrain

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You ever build a city in SB?  A trainer city?  Ever uodgeade your buildings?  Ever made a bane stone?  Played before mines? 

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46 minutes ago, Wrain said:

No, there is a HUGE difference between farming mobs/npcs in a WELL CODED CHALLENGING combat game vs AN OBJECT THAT YOU JUST STAND THERE BEATING ON REPEATEDLY

Lets be honest, farming in Shadowbane was more like "standing there beating on something repeatedly" than a "well coded challenging combat game."

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29 minutes ago, Jah said:

Lets be honest, farming in Shadowbane was more like "standing there beating on something repeatedly" than a "well coded challenging combat game."

Them macros on afk sentinals, druids and warlocks really made for some high level playing. 

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I wish the game went to a publisher - the locked hidden forum is not working to your advantage based on dangerously low community activity in this game compare to any other mmorpg out there like Atlas. And there are reasons of that, I only listed a couple things under the epic moments Zybak posted earlier.

And a happy new year and cross fingers that this project will be successful, but I really don`t know @mandalore

EA Atlas have 47k players this evening refering to steam stats  https://store.steampowered.com/stats/  Crowfall has barely 200 active players and that is a trending issue and very concerning at this stage of development. 

 

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Doesn’t atlas has horrible reviews?  SB got hikacked by its distributor and it had a failed launch in part because of UBIsoft, I’d hope he doesn’t repeat that with CF.  

It is still prealpha.  When I gave them money I expected 4-6 years; I know how long it takes to make a game.  CF isn’t a mass appeal MMO, it’s a niche game and I mean this from the bottom of my black decrepit heart: custard steam and custard fotm hogwash trends that lasso in gamers like the junkies we are.  I’ve played WoW off and on since 2003, I’ve played DAOC, Darkfall, GW, GW2, Albion, EVE and SB; Sb was by far my favorite.  It didn’t make the most money, it didn’t have the largest pop but it does have my favorite memories sitting in front a pc besides pornhub. 

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Posted (edited)

Mythx=gets it.

Look, i'm not slamming this company, devs, or the dream here...I'm slamming the DIRECTION/COMPASS the time/assets/money is leaning towards.

Mythx is EXACTLY right.  And this is my cause for concern because in business,

Quote

BAD PRESS IS BETTER THAN NO PRESS

.  This game needs a serious ENEMA and nostalgia is WHAT WAS CARRYING THIS FROM 2015.  You take away the Nostalgia and you lose over 1/2 of your playerbase.  Why? Because the majority of core playerbase is roughly  32-50 years old.  My memories are from WAR, fighting, being trolled, Loss and gain.  NOT FARMING/POUNDING MATS FOR HOURS/DAYS ON END!!!

This game NEEDS to really shake things up or its dead weight.  Coming in as the next CRAFTING/SURVIVAL simulator is the LAST thing that us nostalgic 35+ year olds want on our screens.  

 

 

Edited by Wrain

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Yes bad reviews I played Atlas on day 1 @mandalore and it was unplayable experience, but it was fixed really fast and it`s much better mmorpg now.

However Gordon Walton need to look at the whole player base - and he needs to do the right things and adjustment needed to get Crowfall interest going also on Twitch and in the media, but the game need to fuction and be rock solid as he mentioned in the last interview with Gordon Walton this month, and 80% on bug and polish related to netcode and server performance related to large scale pvp events inside any active campaign worlds. 

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Not sure I have ever seen "well coded" and "Shadowbane" mentioned together in a sentence. Going to assume it is a full troll then.

I loved SB and played it for a very long time but it was so bad in terms of bugs and other issues.

 

I won't say I like the harvesting in Crowfall because I don't. It is boring and there is way too much of it needed. I also do not think that SB was anywhere close to gods gift to gathering resources and PvE interaction.

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Posted (edited)

I'd have to agree with the OP's stances overall.  My experiences are limited to only 5.8 but I have definitely spent more time gathering than I have spent PVPing.  Part of that is because of the low population, pre-alpha stage, etc.  However, I wish it was mostly spent PVPing.  I look at it this way:  I have a full-time job.  I don't want an evening job.  Been there, done that as far as MMO's go (haven't we all?).  However, I do like the premise of having gathering and crafting be an important aspect in the game, as far as keeping a macro economy going and whatnot.  But it needs to be more about the strategy and less about being the guy swinging the axe/pick/etc.  [Action harvesting?  Are you kidding me?  If I want real action harvesting, I will go chop real firewood outside my house or shovel the snow off my driveway].  Incorporating these types of tedious actions funnel the game play towards one direction and one direction only: buy to play, microtransactions, or macro/third-party farmers selling in-game resources online and against the ToA.  Because most people would rather spend 1 hour working their real job and skip 5 hours of clicking LMB over and over unless you somehow make it mentally engaging.

My understanding of the importance of gathering in the game is to bring to life a real-world economy, and create incentive for area control, defense, and disruption by way of resource harvesting;  to incorporate a sense of loss in the game when you die and your big haul is taken away.  I think this can be achieved in a better way.

I suggest something like this:

I would prefer that players act more like foremen and deploy gathering teams (NPC's or devices etc.) that harvest resources for you, and you have to protect them.  They can operate on their own but can be overtaken by enemies, thus creating local points of interest and control.  Natural control points, if you will.  Perhaps there are limited numbers of teams you can deploy per day unless you spec into gathering etc.  Maybe gatherer specialists can build turrets or NPC guards for their harvesting teams.  I haven't thought this out that much yet.    Resources would be collected by players from their harvesting teams, thus maintaining the risk of dying and losing your stuff while transporting your goods back to the beachheads or the nearest fort.  Fort and Keep ownership would also thus serve as a real advantage by providing a local safe-haven for banking resources, increasing universal player interest in actually owning keeps and forts.   Crafting would remain pretty much as it is.  This idea would (hopefully) mean more people in the fields engaged in combat and fewer people stuck doing work they don't want to do.  To ensure that this semi-automated style of resource harvesting does not create an overabundance of resources the game already has resource-sinks that can be tweaked such as durability/item decay, and resource abundance on maps.

Also, having to protect and/or attack other players' mining camps creates HUGE incentive for small-scale warfare, as zerging around to take one mining node of resources would be highly inefficient.  Guilds would need to have raiding parties of their own for timely resource acquisition and disruption.

Edited by Dern

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Another point is which I wrote a little about in another thread @mandalore - a ring or necklace item drop on a Rng mob is not game breaking in CF, nor will it ruin the economy for a guild crafter, but it`s a good surprise if your Jewel crafter is on vacation on Bahamas for two weeks who the guild itself rely on in the current 5.8 patch :) And that is a bad game design hence why we had item drops in Shadowbane - not the best of items or legendary crafted, but a lot better compare to basic items which get your character competitive in small scale pvp. I know it`s Rng and that is not always great related to pvp, but a guild crafter can micro manage items until the guild member is happy with the weapon or armor stat. Items need to drop with our current activity in 5.8, because there almost no economy at the moment due to low activity.

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Posted (edited)

Recruit players who enjoy crafting and farming if you hate it so much or join a guild that has an already established gear pipeline.  Less QQ more pew pew.

Edited by cyjax

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Posted (edited)

The farming/crafting side of CF allows for more depth to the overall game by allowing groups to win by more than just their capability to make a bigger zerg and wash over their enemies.

Look at even one of the most popular PvP games in the world, League of Legends. Despite being just a MOBA, LoL matches routinely last over an hour and have a lengthy farm/soak phase during the first half of the match where players are basically laning and accumulating gold, getting fed - rather than just jumping straight into fights like say - Heroes of the Storm. Many would say this gives LoL much more depth to its game where matches can be decided by more than just mechanical skill.

I mention this to underscore my first point, that by having a component of the game that leads to power ramping augmented by essentially non-combat activities allows players with a multi-faceted skillset succeed at a level surpassing their linear-minded foes (perhaps good at straight up PvP but not much else).

In short, by asking for crafting/harvesting to be drastically reduced you're saying you'd rather play checkers, than chess.

Edited by DocToral

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