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xphlawlessx

Defending keeps

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I'd like to see some sort of incentive for defending keeps and castles, even outposts ... the current game loop appears to be one faction running round the map, followed by another faction a few keeps behind, rarely bumping into one another. I've not seen anyone defend anything. It's possible this is already in the works, or something the Devs aren't as passionate about, or have a different way to solve...but personally I'd love to get points for fighting off an attack...

 

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6 minutes ago, xphlawlessx said:

I'd like to see some sort of incentive for defending keeps and castles, even outposts ... the current game loop appears to be one faction running round the map, followed by another faction a few keeps behind, rarely bumping into one another. I've not seen anyone defend anything. It's possible this is already in the works, or something the Devs aren't as passionate about, or have a different way to solve...but personally I'd love to get points for fighting off an attack...

 

O its very much about back capping, its a problem.

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I don't think we have a way of determining intent in how things are playing out, but the mechanics do lead to a lot of missed opportunities. The fact that a faction's only notified of a fort assault when the enemy's siting pretty next to the big chair, and that the NPCs currently don't put up anywhere near a decent fight (for multiple reasons), leads to people arriving too late to do anything about it. Then what, are you gonna run to your other fort in the area hoping to meet them there before they've already taken it? Of course not, you're gonna take back the fort you just lost, because points!

Now that they're is back at work in the new year Todd and Blair have a lot of feedback to absorb and act upon. I hope that process leads to good changes.

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I'm so confident it will , have you watched any of the videos of Todd ? Or met him... That guy knows his poorly made socks ! The biggest thing is that the Devs are building a game because they want to play it... That makes such a difference in the way things are handled Vs a company making a game strictly for the amount of possible income... I mean this is gonna be a cash cow anyway, based on quality but it doesn't seem to be the focus. It feels in everyway like a passion project, a very early version but a passion project none the less :)

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Forts and keeps are undefended mostly because there aren't enough people to defend them. Increase the population and that becomes much less of a problem. 

Also, there is still a good amount of crafting being done in EKs rather than in forts and keeps. Part of that is because those forts and keeps are undefended and part is because the spirit bank makes it easy to move stuff in and out of the campaign. Once exports are tied to the actual campaign results, people will have to craft inside the campaign. And if people are crafting in campaign, they will need other people defending them.

Beyond that, there isn't a whole lot of organization. Some guilds/people are actively trying to win the campaigns, but I don't think most really care at this point. People aren't really interested in 4 day campaigns. The bragging rights aren't worth anything and there are no rewards tied to victory or defeat. The first sanctioned campaigns should include more people and more organization/effort from the larger guilds. Let's see how those go before we start worrying about incentivizing fort/keep defense.

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14 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Forts and keeps are undefended mostly because there aren't enough people to defend them.

Forts are undefended because the only people really using them are harvesters banking goods. When a war party comes around, they're in and gone before there's opportunity to defend.

Outposts are worse. No reason to go there unless it's flying the wrong flag.

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19 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Forts and keeps are undefended mostly because there aren't enough people to defend them. Increase the population and that becomes much less of a problem. 

Also, there is still a good amount of crafting being done in EKs rather than in forts and keeps. Part of that is because those forts and keeps are undefended and part is because the spirit bank makes it easy to move stuff in and out of the campaign. Once exports are tied to the actual campaign results, people will have to craft inside the campaign. And if people are crafting in campaign, they will need other people defending them.

Beyond that, there isn't a whole lot of organization. Some guilds/people are actively trying to win the campaigns, but I don't think most really care at this point. People aren't really interested in 4 day campaigns. The bragging rights aren't worth anything and there are no rewards tied to victory or defeat. The first sanctioned campaigns should include more people and more organization/effort from the larger guilds. Let's see how those go before we start worrying about incentivizing fort/keep defense.

Bragging about winning these 4 day campaigns has become a meme.  Think we are all waiting on ACE to make the much needed adjustments to POI captures and keep sieges.

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Oh of course, I'm not saying this is a priority... Just that's what this forum is for no? Posting suggestions? There's plenty of people posting about all that other stuff.... I guess it's just a perspective thing... Coz my score was 0 first campaign I played and we lost, then we won the next one and my score was like 30 or something ... Not impressive but I was well happy with myself just for helping out..

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a way to buff the guards with mats like donating woods give better weps to the guards, and if owning the keeps had some benefit besides crafting like providing a harvest bonus in the surrounding area or patrols of tougher guards in the area would make people actually care about them 

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Ah, now that's smart. Both those ideas would do a lot to combat this, I'm sure they'll come up with something as cool. I have a lot of faith in ACE. They're everything I want from a developer ! 

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Going to repost some thoughts I had in another thread because it probably fits better here.

 

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Here is my biggest gripe with the current system. It is terribly un-fun. The way it is set up currently, the most efficient route to victory is not to fight the other side but to just have the 3 factions running in a circle behind each other recapping the fort that they just took. It's like a dog chasing its tail.

Outposts - Take way to long to capture solo. I would suggest something like 2-3 minutes to full cap it regardless of number of people there. Have outposts send out a call for help in the zone they are in. A toggle we can turn on that shows all outposts under attack on our compass. With a 2-3 minute cap time this give people the chance to actually fight at these nodes, or at least get closer to the people capping them.

Forts - This is where the dog chasing it's tail really shines. I want forts to be more like mines were in Shadowbane but with a faster turn around time. I would make it so that a fort can not be recapped for either 1, 2 or 3 hours, chosen randomly. This would be plainly listed on the map. Give the fort a 15-30 minute period where the throne can be claimed by the other sides. Get rid of having people stand in the center to cap and bring back the long channel to claim like we had on dragon statues. If the opposing factions do not claim the fort with-in that 30-60 minute period the defenders keep it for the next 1, 2 or 3 hours.

These changes to outposts and forts would make me actually want to do them and organize for them with my guild.

I know I would get PvP if I was doing outposts. I'm guaranteed to find someone looking for PvP or have someone find me when I'm looking for PvP. Yay! PvP.

The changes to the forts would make it so that there was almost always going to be organized GvG PvP on the hour and adds a layer of strategy to the game. Do we defend our fort(s) or claim another? Right now claiming forts is just 3 factions each running up to a different fort, standing in the center uncontested while alt-tabbed, rotate clockwise. Make this style of play not the most effective of getting points. Make the entire playerbase's option only to either defend or attack a combination of only about 5 forts each hour, instead of attack or defend a combination of 20 forts 24/7. Funnel us towards each other, not spread us out.

Keeps - I'd Say these are mostly fine the way they are. 3 that all are active at the same time once per day. Only thing I would do is rotate the times each day so that PST and EST all get a shot at prime time keeps throughout the week.

 

I'd engage in all of these activities even if my side was losing horribly. PvP is still PvP.

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I'm  onboard with almost all of that, although the newest news article from Todd (bonus points for keeps that have been held for too long) mayactually fix this unfun loop anyway. The one thing I take issue with is the speed of capping solo, I think it's fine as is for everything except maybe outposts, it's presumably to discourage solo play, which I totally get.. it's a team game. I think a solo capping outposts could be faster, as it's dangerous enough to balance it's self. As a few people have said In this thread , a lot of this will change purely by having more players. I do think you're onto something though. 

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I would say bring back the channel to capture an outpost as well.
This would speed up the uncontested captures and be more realistic with the idea of taking a flag down to put your own faction's up.

Make it so that Fort walls too need Siege equipment to break down, watching some 5.8 TEST footage and it looks great barraging the walls or invaders with the catapults.
(of course something would need to be done regarding Stealth/Port captures but this next point could work with that)

I would also like to see Guards deal HOLY damage until a better implementation comes around.
This would ensure that guards, especially higher rank ones, can not be completely ignored based on gear or discipline set ups and keep higher rank guards as a threat that needs to be neutralized.

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Make all guards level 10 with 100 perception , add more guards throughout the camps and keeps . So 2-3 players can't take forts and 1 player can't take outposts . I just to easy to take these landmarks and not enough defense

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6 hours ago, xphlawlessx said:

I'm  onboard with almost all of that, although the newest news article from Todd (bonus points for keeps that have been held for too long) mayactually fix this unfun loop anyway.

I don't think so. I agree that it is a good thing, but it will just make it so that the losing side has a reason to continue running the loop. It doesn't change the fact that the current system encourages running in a circle and avoiding PvP.

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Yeah, I see your point... But the way I see it. If a keep has been held for ages and is worth a bunch of points immediately , that should be a good incentive to protect it, especially in winter during the final rush, because one capture of a keep or caslte could be what wins the game at that stage... I guess we'll see :)

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Yeah, I see your point... But the way I see it. If a keep has been held for ages and is worth a bunch of points immediately , that should be a good incentive to protect it, especially in winter during the final rush, because one capture of a keep or caslte could be what wins the game at that stage... I guess we'll see :

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Oh, really ? Any links to back that up? Not that I don't believe you, just trying to read everything I can, and I've not seen that anywhere. If that is the case, then they really need to speed up the cap speed on those... Coz I'm decent at fighting them, but the time it takes to capture is excruciating... It's not like you can really do much with the time ,y'know?

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