Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Rikutatis

Hybrid Druid (Archdruid) Feedback

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Vanilla Druid has always been my favorite CF class since it was first introduced in HD, mostly because of the essence management yin yang mechanic. So I finally gave Hybrid Druid a try this campaign. I love the concept of a bomber spec for niche siege situations, but there's definitely a couple things holding it back at the moment. 

Atm, Hybrid Druid does two things in a fairly mediocre way: bombing and healing. 

1) Bombing is the theme for Hybrid druid, so I'll address it first. I don't mind that it's a niche class and a niche ability for siege/choke point situations only. I dig that. But the bombs have approx 4m range and that's less than melee range. It's just too short and inconsistent, specially considering ppl can just ult through it. Also once you activate Blight and the bombs trigger they become invisible to you and you cannot see them anymore. Bug? 

So Hybrid only really becomes viable when he can hit someone with 3 bombs and get the buff (it's actually 4, because the 3rd orb is not counting for the buff atm, is that a bug?). Hitting someone with 4+ bombs requires a lot of setup, I feel like the bombs should have at least around 7m range. It's still less range than a dodge. The damage values of the bombs and the buff you get from hitting someone with 4+ are all perfectly fine, it just needs more explosion range to be more consistent. I mean, c'mon, melee has better range. And it takes a lot of setup and time to make it happen. Realistically you need to hit someone with at least 6+ bombs to have a meaningful impact that can change the course of a fight, and I'm talking intermediate armor here, not even the high end stuff. Extra range is needed to make the class more viable and less of a fun gimmick. 

2) Healing: I get it, this is the earthkeeper's job. But I feel like archdruid should at least be given the option to use the Surging Spirit disc (or something similar) in order to become more competent at healing. Earthkeeper has his passive, you can just keep on healing all day long. Hybrid will still need to swap trays, do bombing, etc. Plus the hybrid needs to make a choice, use his orbs for healing or his bread and butter bombs. And he has less healing powers available too. With surging spirit it could still feel like your heals actually mean something, while not being nearly as good at it as the earthkeeper and needing to swap trays more often. Like the vanilla druid of old ^^ 

3) Just as a final note, I'd love to see the Lightning Burst/Aurora Emitter combo returned to the Archdruid as well. It would fit his "siege bomber" niche much better than Stormcaller. I think those two powers should be swapped. And aurora emitter AoE dmg ticks should be buffed (been saying this for years lol). 

@thomasblair @jtoddcoleman  Make hybrid druid great again! <3

Edited by Rikutatis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

as i've said elsewhere: all three druids feel very watered down.

essentially - all other class promotions added while the druid mainly took away and divided. breaking the core feel and experience of the class.

earthkeeper is a forced requirement if you want to heal - just like their forced stat/disc choices - and has lost all of the interesting 'death toys' to essentially [mind the pun!] become a 'life only' class with no meaningful essence management or power use.

stormcaller is an unsustainable left click machine with no interesting support or utility and subject to specific 'restrictions'.

archdruid is too 'gimmicky' and can barely heal despite it still being 'a requirement'.

also with non healing clerics - the loss of the previous free +750 support power all druids/clerics used to get means "why bother being the non healing promotion versus another class...especially one with surging spirit".

the leveling journey as a druid is also just frustrating and will only get worse when discs require talent investment and when running through the xp with advanced vessels and their steeper grind requirements.


many players i know who used to play druid are now severely 'turned off' from it...


thoughts @yianni / @Xarrayne / @Anthrage / @Extintor / @Shadiz

Edited by Tinnis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yup i agree with both  of you, when i first started playing this game a year ago i started with fessor. that was a huge let down at the time and switched to scim druid mainly and switched between it and stick and loved it and people hated me

now with the promotions, i wanted to do scim but its so damn squishy. even @PanzerUDL who always played it for years isnt anymore. i've enjoyed playing arch druid because watching people drop almost instantly is fun and can definitely change things in a siege, BUT there's a lot of set up, and as of right now the bombs go off first then the animation. so people cant really get out of it, once its fixed, it wont be hitting as many people. also about 60% of the time bombs work everytime. i've had them not go off numerous of times which is frustrating. i'm left with a bunch of essence that i have to burn using LMB. im not gonna even say anything about healing with archdruid haha

i cant speak much for eathkeeper because i havent played it, but i can imagine its just gonna be dropping balls, wisp and healing rain and try to do some damage with LMB.

i do agree that we need lightning burst back, OR for the love of malekai please fix bear @thomasblair, its such a good skill but then again so worthless. everytime i see a druid cast it i laugh thinking what a waste of time, my LMB is hitting him/her while theyre charging up this spell thats not gonna hit me

basically druid needs some more work, as does ranger. but ill let them make a thread about it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I've been playing druid for the last couple of years and I used to love it. As I like to be healer I just tried the earthkeeper specialization but I haven't fight too much so I don't have a clear opinion about the final state I think we lost some group bufs and a lot of offensive power. I can speak about the leveling and it's pretty bad and it will be worse once the frame shortcut disappears.

The main problem to level up as a healer is you invest your stat points, your talent points and your disciplines slots for your final spec but you can't use any of that for almost 20 levels because you don't have your life tray. You can't even slot the healing powers granted by disciplines. So for almost 20 levels you can't do damage and you can't heal, you are pretty much useless. Besides we lost a lot of support power we used to get from the skill trees and from what I've seen the numbers we get from items now are lower too.

Something similar it's happening for the stormcaller too, spending a lot of talent points in healing stats (healing critical chance and stuff like that) he won't be able to use at all.

I don't like the leveling system in general because it removes the "right into the battle" we used to have, but I think it's even worse for the druid.

I know it's a work in progress and I hope it will be fixed, but it's gonna need a lot of changes.

Edited by Extintor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP: Thank you for your well thought out view. I completely agree.  I feel like i almost have to warn new players when I am grouping, not to use my orbs for healing, because they do so little healing, and you need a lot around to make the bombing effective.

It is a very challenging set up because not only do you need to guess where enemies will be, but your team mates need to understand the mechanics in order to let it work out.

With this much set up it required, the pay off needs to feel worth it.

I think the damage is nice when it goes off right, but perhaps removing a bit of the obstacles to setting it up would make it feel better. Increasing explosion radius would really help that. Also snaring with blight would help.

Also, the healing from the orbs should be increased because I am sacrificing my other useful function if another player uses them. I want to feel useful either way. That's why I chose Archdruid.

Otherwise I am loving this game =]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check out some videos on my channel of me playing as archdruid, i learned to only group with ranged or even not grouped at all. In this fight I had a lot of my orbs taken by melee. There's another fight at ramonas where i was only in ranged, you can also see at the end where my bombs didnt even go off

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Admittedly part of the reason Druid feels "bad" atm is because we had so many tools prior to this split, but there's definitely an objective lacking in certain areas. Most of my sentiments on the different Druid specs have already been voiced here pretty accurately... The loss of utility/CC as an Earthkeeper, the squishiness of the Stormcaller, and the heavy reliance on bombs for the Archdruid are all quite off-putting.

  • The Earthkeeper is good at healing, but that's all you really do (damage is non-existent, one hard CC on 30s CD, and Nature's Avatar is not gameplay), and I'd like to see the Roots, Whirlwind or Blight re-added to the base kit. The weighting between base values and scaling for the Oaken Guard talent also seem rather off... The base value is way too strong in the early game, while scaling worse than any other Heal-over-Time ability I know of - that could probably do with some tweaking;
     
  • The Stormcaller should probably get the Ironwood Body passive back from Earthkeeper (their damage potential is great, but they're as durable as dry leaves), and probably get back Roots or Whirlwind too;
     
  • As for Archdruid I think that they should lose the bonus Orb healing from the FoN (Force of Nature) proc, and have that power reallocated to Support Power (+50 or +75 per point) on the Forest Affinity skill (that's the one that unlocks the specialisation)
    • If you proc the FoN passive then you probably don't have many/any orbs left on a relevant part of the battlefield anyway; 
    • It's a rather tight window to have relevant* healing on orbs (+50% of a small number is still a small number*);
    • Without any base SP your heals from discs (e.g. Field Surgeon) are completely irrelevant, so you're losing out on the Healing Mod from those discs too;

      If it makes the trade easier you could cut the Attack Power from that first node (between Pack Avatar, the super-Blight and the FoN buff they really don't need it). The Stormcaller will still be much more reliable DPS-wise, and Earthkeeper will still be the superior healing choice in this scenario too - more healing spells, 150-225 more Support Power, +10% Healing Mod/Mod Cap, various healing stats from talents, and ease of Essence management to lord over the Archdruid.

 

TL;DR Druid still needs some shuffling of their utility spells to give Earthkeeper and Stormcaller some flavour, and Archdruid needs to be a little more relevant in the healing department. IMO.

Edited by Xarrayne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P.S. I was being a little dramatic when I said "Nature's Avatar is not gameplay" - I was trying to make the point that it doesn't give the caster much interaction or direct influence over offensive plays, and doesn't give any feedback as to how effectively it's impacting the fight (which can be quite a bit).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

another thing ive realized

earthkeeper now has ZERO chaining or branching combo powers or powers that interact with other powers

both have severley fallen out of use in ACE's design over time.

a shame with limited action set and 'small' amount of 'class' powers

meanwhile cooldowns have hugely increased over time as well

even archdruid and earthkeeper death lmb now has zero 1 2 3 damage increases or third part "effect"

 

Edited by Tinnis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Xarrayne said:

P.S. I was being a little dramatic when I said "Nature's Avatar is not gameplay" - I was trying to make the point that it doesn't give the caster much interaction or direct influence over offensive plays, and doesn't give any feedback as to how effectively it's impacting the fight (which can be quite a bit).

yea we need to see the 'flytext' / combat log while using it

also its a shame archdruid lacks on demand avatar for offensive quick burn essence building outsode of only orbs

ultimately: orbs and orb bombs were designed and added into a game that had much lower mobility without run and gun and less cc breaks than we do now and rooted power use/locks. been a lot of mobility and cc/anti cc inflation...

Edited by Tinnis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree with much of what has been said here it is important to recognize that while the promo classes are not necessarily as engaging as the previous iterations they are performing quite well. The Earthkeeper is undeniably the best healer right now, this is a function of the absurdly high orb numbers (Ace might need to look at those), the Arch druid while clunky and niche is the number one keep defense toon, the sickle druid, while still sub optimally made of glass,  is an effective solo toon if you can wade through the mass of pitfighters. 

The Earthkeeper's previous iteration had tornado combo, root and, the lightning strike combo while the loss of these certainly guts the offensive capabilities of the class it does not ultimately impact the healing potential of the class. The Earthkeeper is a healer first and foremost, the ability to flex dps was certainly one of my favorite parts but with the introduction of promo classes this portion of the class was going to be removed, there was no way around it. That being said i would like to see the root returned to Earthkeeper, it was nice to have a hard CC.

The Arch druid while currently an invisible bomber due to a bug will continue to remain viable long after visibility is restored. Bombs have always been a fantastic defensive mechanic and the current iteration of the Arch druid makes them even stronger with the flat damage buffs that the bombs received after the split. Bombs are an AoE one shot mechanic, visible or not a little coordination can make them an incredible asset in a siege. I think most of the complaints here are about its ability to solo, be a sustained dps, or function in small scale and while I would like to see the class able to do that stuff as well it is not the intention of the subclass. It is a large scale siege toon with a high skill cap and high burst and high potential impact, nothing more nothing less. While the bomb portion of the kit certainly is viable I am forced to agree with the claim that the class is clucky and niche. It does not work unless you are hitting bombs, perhaps something that may need to be looked at and improved.

Sickle druid is fundamentally not a group toon, its a leather wearer with no save skills and an ult that roots it in place.... what were we expecting here? It is (and still was before the split) a solo ganker toon that can kite decently and has the nice sustain heals that while effective in 1v1 situations are useless in large scale. The class needs a real save skill to make it viable in large scale, ironwood body would be a start though not enough in my opinion. In the solo realm it is a solid choice that is currently overshadowed by pitfighters, I'm sure that will be addressed soon.

I do not agree with the way things were split up and I miss the old druid as well (arch is closest we have sadly) each of the subclasses are in their own way viable... can that be said for another class?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 05/01/2019 at 11:38 PM, Balathan said:

...

While I agree earthkeeper is the best healer atm, I disagree that archdruid is the number one keep defense toon. You can definitely get a high value bomb off in a breach choke point or inside a throne room, and maybe one shot or maybe get 1/2 to 2/3 of someone's health (maybe a few someone's) and it feels great when you do, but that's just not consistent at a 4m range explosion. Honestly what yianni said about bombs not working 60% of the time might just be a range thing coupled with client-server desync, 4m is ridiculously short. You may get one of those high value bombs off in the course of a fight while a templar, fessor or champ is providing consistent nonstop dps, kps, CC, utility, etc. I mean, just look at how many archdruids there are playing in the regular guilds doing sieges everynight, and while I agree he probably has the highest skill cap of all classes atm, I don't think that's the only reason people are not playing him. Granted the atrocious lag during keep sieges also doesn't make tray swapping and bombing very easy, but still. And this is with the current bug of insta invis bombs, he'll get even less consistent when that's fixed. He has his niche, he's playable and he forces people to be mindful of choke points and tight spaces, but he could actually be very viable and the number one toon defense if the range on those bombs was extended by a few meters. Either that or to give him a better toolkit outside of the bomb gimmick.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@Rikutatis yea most people dont realize that bombs are basically 'melee' [or the set up time: which also applies to the healing size too - zero other powers/dps during]

also the archdruid needs a way to prevent group mates from accidently picking up orbs [which would be 'dont join a group' in a siege - entirely wasting the point of 'pack avatar']

Edited by Tinnis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

While I agree earthkeeper is the best healer atm, I disagree that archdruid is the number one keep defense toon. You can definitely get a high value bomb off in a breach choke point or inside a throne room, and maybe one shot or maybe get 1/2 to 2/3 of someone's health (maybe a few someone's) and it feels great when you do, but that's just not consistent at a 4m range explosion. Honestly what yianni said about bombs not working 60% of the time might just be a range thing coupled with client-server desync, 4m is ridiculously short. You may get one of those high value bombs off in the course of a fight while a templar, fessor or champ is providing consistent nonstop dps, kps, CC, utility, etc. I mean, just look at how many archdruids there are playing in the regular guilds doing sieges everynight, and while I agree he probably has the highest skill cap of all classes atm, I don't think that's the only reason people are not playing him. Granted the atrocious lag during keep sieges also doesn't make tray swapping and bombing very easy, but still. And this is with the current bug of insta invis bombs, he'll get even less consistent when that's fixed. He has his niche, he's playable and he forces people to be mindful of choke points and tight spaces, but he could actually be very viable and the number one toon defense if the range on those bombs was extended by a few meters. Either that or to give him a better toolkit outside of the bomb gimmick.  

actually what i mean by bombs not working is literally the orbs dont blow up. you can see them fail here at the end none of the exploded

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, yianni said:

actually what i mean by bombs not working is literally the orbs dont blow up. you can see them fail here at the end none of the exploded

 

 

hmm, yea, in the vid it's looking like maybe the walls around you messed up with the reticle aiming or blight placement and the blight circle actually ended up by your feet instead of where your reticle was aiming at the orbs? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

the blight circle actually ended up by your feet instead of where your reticle was aiming at the orbs? 

That's a visual bug in this build. Every GTAoE ability fires where you aim it but the VFX appear at your feet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't seem to be just a visual bug. I have always had to stand right in the center of the bombs to make them explode. I don't even look where i'm aiming when I use blight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/3/2019 at 10:49 AM, Rikutatis said:

1) Bombing is the theme for Hybrid druid, so I'll address it first. I don't mind that it's a niche class and a niche ability for siege/choke point situations only. I dig that. But the bombs have approx 4m range and that's less than melee range. It's just too short and inconsistent, specially considering ppl can just ult through it. Also once you activate Blight and the bombs trigger they become invisible to you and you cannot see them anymore. Bug?

2) Healing: I get it, this is the earthkeeper's job. But I feel like archdruid should at least be given the option to use the Surging Spirit disc (or something similar) in order to become more competent at healing. Earthkeeper has his passive, you can just keep on healing all day long. Hybrid will still need to swap trays, do bombing, etc. Plus the hybrid needs to make a choice, use his orbs for healing or his bread and butter bombs. And he has less healing powers available too. With surging spirit it could still feel like your heals actually mean something, while not being nearly as good at it as the earthkeeper and needing to swap trays more often. Like the vanilla druid of old ^^

@thomasblair @jtoddcoleman  Make hybrid druid great again! <3

When I first started playing the arch druid I expected anyone within the purple blight circle to be hit from any orbs within the same circle.....

We need more healing, and it could be just as good as the Earthkeeper; as you pointed out, the difference is Archdruid can't consistently keep up that type of healing or they will kill themselves from essence burn.  The Archdruid should be the burst type druid healer, while Earthkeeper is constant.  Another mechanic they could add is a life tray bomb (non-group all allies) healing AoE, 15m range, but keep it on a 45-60 second cooldown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2019 at 7:27 PM, SmokeTrail said:

It doesn't seem to be just a visual bug. I have always had to stand right in the center of the bombs to make them explode. I don't even look where i'm aiming when I use blight.

That's strange. I can always bomb at range.

Edited by Navystylz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...