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Capture Points - Official discussion thread

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Loving the seasonal adjustments to the point system. It makes winter count.

IMO. Don't wipe skills unless there's a development reason for it. Most of us started about the same time, and starting over from zero after just starting to taste real skills isn't fun.

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2 minutes ago, coolster50 said:

I would prefer no-imports (except vessels) for the first campaign, would mean everyone would have to harvest and craft within the campaign. More opportunities for conflict. Everything else seems fine to me, can’t wait to try it out

If you’re doing no imports why not wipe vessels?  Letting the guilds that know how to/and have crafted vessels bring them still screws over the have nots.  If you’re going wipe banks wipe vessels to.  

 

Speaking as somebody who only plays a day or two a week the constant wiping is tedious but that’s me being a lazy pos so it’s understandable.  I roam the boards for bridges to lurk and tolls to impose but only log in for the occasional siege. 

 

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That said, how should we configure this Campaign?

  • Should we wipe passive skills?

If you feel the need to wipe skills to make a campaign fair, that suggests there is something wrong with the whole passive skills system. Everyone starting out with wiped skills is only going to happen once after the game launches. I feel like you should be designing the game so that wipes aren't needed to keep it fair. Or you should stand behind the decision that passive training means things are not entirely fair in this sandbox pvp game.

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Just now, Jah said:

If you feel the need to wipe skills to make a campaign fair, that suggests there is something wrong with the whole passive skills system. Everyone starting out with wiped skills is only going to happen once after the game launches. I feel like you should be designing the game so that wipes aren't needed to keep it fair. Or you should stand behind the decision that passive training means things are not entirely fair in this sandbox pvp game.

I agree, but also keep in mind that there will be a post launch tome system to catch people up that is not yet implemented. 

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Posted (edited)

its a minor thing, but it feels like it would be fun if in addition to the multiple forts, and three main keeps.....you put one castle at the top of a mountain town parcel in one of these maps :)

[perhaps that zone even ONLY unlocks in the winter - if that tech is ready....]

Edited by Tinnis

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1 minute ago, Tinnis said:

its a minor thing, but it feels like it would be fun if in addition to the multiple forts, and three main keeps.....you put one castle at the top of a mountain town parcel in one of these maps :)

[perhaps that zone even ONLY unlocks in the winter - if that tech is ready....]

Are there any mountains in these small maps? 

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I think limited imports are good, but I don't know about wiping skills. That said, it would allow everyone to mimic an actual 'first ever campaign' which there will eventually be. Maybe wipe skills on a later campaign? Let people get their feet under them first.

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In regards to the knobs for balancing campaigns:

Seasonal changes to victory points:

Perfectly reasonable. This means that even if a faction plans to wipe the map in the second half of the campaign, the first half leaves the other factions free to get some harvesting and crafting in. 

Capture Bonus Pool:

The bounty system is a very popular one in pvp games, for sure and I think this move is pretty genius for a throne war game. I especially like the effect it can have in letting a faction spend extra time on recovering their strength before launching a new attack, rather than being forced to fight losing battles because it's an automatic loss otherwise.

One point I do want to stress is that in other games, more specifically MOBAs, we've seen the effects of when the bounty system is overtuned. What ends up happening is that games become really chaotic and back and forth. While in MOBAs this is not a good thing, since it messes up the impact of player skill, in Crowfall it could present for interesting FFA campaigns that are chaotic. Overtuning this knob could be a really interesting experiment. 

A concern I have is that if you take the season points mechanic and the bonus point mechanic together, there is incentive for a faction to straight up not fight for the first half of campaign, just not even play it and then storm the entire map in the second half, getting maximum bonus points on top of being a more rewarding season. This is a very dangerous scenario that you have to be aware of. It's the main problem of all of these knobs - while incentivizing waiting it out and going for the comeback is good, it also adds incentive to not fight in the first place and wait.

New campaign:

In regards to what one can bring into the new campaign - I am personally 100% in favor of bringing in absolutely nothing. Maybe just the levels since we know players will just start out farming arch frames, but definitely not upgraded vessels.

As someone who started really recently, I definitely feel the pain of being severely behind the game's economy and this makes testing a bit difficult, since there aren't enough people that would require low-end goods that I can produce at the start. Clean slate would allow us to see the economy develop in a nice way with these full campaigns.

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I think Characters and Spirit Bank wipe would be a good idea so that people will actually gather in the first campaign.We all know that if you say you wont wipe anything and spirits banks stay the same all guilds will farm like crazy in the 7 days before to get everyone a couple of sets of armor and weapons to get them through the whole duration.But i think skills should stay so that harvesters actually get some decent drops and crafters can make stuff that doesnt have -50 damage .

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1 minute ago, pamintandrei said:

I think Characters and Spirit Bank wipe would be a good idea so that people will actually gather in the first campaign.We all know that if you say you wont wipe anything and spirits banks stay the same all guilds will farm like crazy in the 7 days before to get everyone a couple of sets of armor and weapons to get them through the whole duration.But i think skills should stay so that harvesters actually get some decent drops and crafters can make stuff that doesnt have -50 damage .

Simple solution - wipe the skills but boost the point rate even more. So much so that the rate of finishing a final tree aligns with the end of the campaign. So like 40-60x (4-6 times more than now). This way you have the even ground AND harvesters/crafters will make useful stuff very quickly, while the very first few days will start with garbs. This is something neccessary to test anyways. A concern I've had is that the very early game might feel too mundane when people have next to no resources due to a lack of skills. Have to see what the breaking point is.

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6 minutes ago, pamintandrei said:

We all know that if you say you wont wipe anything and spirits banks stay the same all guilds will farm like crazy in the 7 days before to get everyone a couple of sets of armor and weapons to get them through the whole duration.

Isn't that how Crowfall is designed to work?

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I can't understate how huge all of these are to addressing Faction warfare scoring in the genre as a whole. Guild Wars 2 was plagued with scoring issues (too many to list here), but at its core, you've fundamentally solved nearly all of my concerns. The busiest time in GW2 WvWvW was the opening day of each weeks campaign. It's because everyone understood that the scores start at 0 for everyone, and it was anyone's game. The reality was that off-peak capturing by EU/AS forces effectively screwed over some servers by allowing those teams to seize points when the majority of players couldn't respond.

Complicating matters is that once the scores ran away too far between each team, players would stop logging in. It was possible to know who was going to win almost immediately at the start/middle of a week.

These scoring systems allow players to join 50% of the way through a campaign and still pull an underdog victory out. At the same time, none of this is achieved by using artificial deflationary point awards, or other unclear methods at keeping point values "close". Players will know quickly that its possible to win in the 4th quarter because every touchdown is worth 21 points. 

I really like this and I can guarantee that Guild Wars 2 WvW veterans will love it too. Couple this with siege windows for forts/keeps and you've got yourself a real ballgame here.

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