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Capture Points - Official discussion thread

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6 hours ago, moneda said:

Just so newcomers know, when the 3-faction system was first implemented this was how it worked, and the playtesters were quite vocal about how much they hated it. :lol:

You mean the winning faction aka. the biggest population was quite vocal about it?

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41 minutes ago, Glitchhiker said:

You mean the winning faction aka. the biggest population was quite vocal about it?

Nope, people were abusing the allies immunity to be unpleasant.

Plus, it is quite silly from my POV. If the losing groups can't even get an alliance going by themselves they dont deserve to win.

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7 hours ago, Doradur said:

Capping of all combat stats that gradually grows during the campaign

That's a genius idea for a problem I was pondering about aswell.  Beeing the redundance of basic and intermediate gear. Having advanced gear exceed the global power cap for the first few hours/days would mean everybody could just use basic/intermediate and rush into pvp and be competitive even if you weren't able to start at the exact moment the campaign launched.

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Full wipe is the only option. ACE shouldnt even have given you guys the "option" to choose. If they had just said full wipe was coming people would complain, say it was BS, but that would be it. Now? It became an issue. People who don't want the wipe will say it is the "carebears" fault for wanting (gasp!) fair fights and that ACE listening to them is a mistake.

Just look at the post count. You did get a discussion going but not sure it will pay off.

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57 minutes ago, Glitchhiker said:

You mean the winning faction aka. the biggest population was quite vocal about it?

No, players who didn't want The System dictating who they could and could not attack were vocal about how much they disliked it. Who was or wasn't your ally would flip in the middle of fights. It was trash and we've moved on. Welcome.


Hi, I'm moneda.

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14 minutes ago, moneda said:

No, players who didn't want The System dictating who they could and could not attack were vocal about how much they disliked it. Who was or wasn't your ally would flip in the middle of fights. It was trash and we've moved on. Welcome.

Okey, I can see why ppl wouldn't like that. So what if you tackle the problem in another way. Putting bounty rewards on winning-faction objectives and players for example? Would you still be against the losing factions working togheter then?

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40 minutes ago, Glitchhiker said:

Would you still be against the losing factions working togheter then?

The system wasn't changed because there was an uproar against the losing factions teaming up, it was changed so that they weren't forced to. If you want an incentive for that to happen in the current system given explicitly by some in-game mechanic I'd be against that also. I'd want an incentive for that given from one player to another, or from one group to another group. Politics in lieu of programming.


Hi, I'm moneda.

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I dont care if wipe or not. It doesnt make a difference after a few hours anyway. 

Ppl which spend more time into it and already know how the system works will always be in advantage over any casual-player even in this game and even from server start till the end. In fact, it doesnt matter at all if casuals start with the same conditions as veterans since there is no way that they can stay equal after an hour into a fresh wiped setup. 

You dont need passive progression  to get advanced gear in a few minutes, while new ppl will not even know how to get that stuff after a week, if they dont join a community.

The "powergap" is a not working excuse to force a wipe. It will not give any equality.

Ppl have to understand that - with the current state and mechanics of the game - tryhards, nolifer, veterans will rule the board, no matter what. This is pretty much the case in every game, but ppl still try to equalize stuff. In the end of the day its still not possible to force equality.

 

 

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yes I agree @Makuza they need look at core issues with the current design based on items and how to accuire it in a campaign and consider different systems including PvE and item drop since u cannot repair items. The main aspect of the game is PvP so item distribution outside of the crafting window  is really important and ACE should add different features to keep players happy who have different play styles outside of a guild. Always a player decision to guild or not even in CF - it`s not something that should forced upon to enjoy the open world sandbox experience without being miles behind in the item power curve compare to a guild with 50 members and 20 crafters.   

 


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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Posted (edited)

To round up. Gear doesnt matter either that much. It does a difference between equal skilled players with the same knowledge (these players will still have the same level without a wipe) but a bunch of new players with legendaries in every slot will also not archive anything against ppl with intermediate gear which actually know how everything like classes, cc, meta and alot of other coremechanics work. 

But hey. Go for the wipe and give them the illusion of equality. This will prolly fill the servers more than sticking to ppl which dont want to do the distribution of passiveprogression once more :D

Edited by Makuza

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Posted (edited)

Wipe bank, leave skills would be nice coming into sanctum campaigns.

Although if u wanna do a skill wipe i dont mind however would be nice to get a boost in skill gain like 10 times for the first week or 2 to catch back up to where we are atleast. Would also allow newbies who fked up there skill gain to try again :D just dont wipe passives and leave it 3x :P atleast boost it toi be quick for a bit till were near where we are now :)

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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for me, the mandatory options are :

  • no spirit bank until winter.
  • keep is for the faction at start and cannot be take for 24h

Other options :

  • skill reset is not mandatory but would be great for my guild
  • vessel import, is ok as long as keep cannot be take

 

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100% spirit banks need wiped, vessels maybe not entirely sure how many people have had access to purple vessels etc as of yet but that could make a difference starting at the campaign. 

Would like to see the skill tree kept the same as it is just getting to the point where we have decent skills and as this is still pre-alpha many people may get burned out by the reseting of the skill trees to often prior to at least beta's etc which wouldn't be good for testing especially as we are now starting to see bigger group fights which hopefully will be more in this campaign as well.

Love the ideas of the capture points making the focus on in winter to pvp, hope the campaign is at least 2 weeks long so we can see the seasons having more of an affect for the gathering bonuses etc.

 

Looking forward to it!

 

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2 hours ago, Aedius said:

for me, the mandatory options are :

  • no spirit bank until winter.
  • keep is for the faction at start and cannot be take for 24h

I like the idea of locking keeps for a short period so first people into the server don't flip everything with ease. 

Locking spirit bank in spring would be fine for me. I don't think a lock till winter would be palatable. 

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26 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Locking spirit bank in spring would be fine for me. I don't think a lock till winter would be palatable. 

Import and export quotas by season would be good, in my mind.

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Capture points are silly. Victory should work from objectives with intrinsic strategic value, not externally imposed point values. I also hope that these point-systems are just placeholders while the developers work through designing and implementing game systems which allow for one's strategic spatial position to be valuable for its own sake, and not because points were assigned.

As limited examples of intrinsic strategic value, consider these. What if your resource extraction could not be accomplished in enemy territory, and that you could not safely transport materials and products except in safely held areas? What if your crafters could not work efficiently or skillfully, except where there was nearly absolute safety, behind defenses in depth? What if your fighting forces needed lines of supply, held contiguously from their positions back to your crafting centers? What if you could operate independently in enemy held territory for short periods, and it was almost impossible to rest or heal before you returned to friendly territory?

What I would consider as a beginning, is to change how crafting and storage works, to make the keeps and forts more valuable in their own right.

  1. I would move some of the crafting functions to keeps only. E.g., gate it by quality grade, such that only commons and greens could be successfully crafted at forts, and for higher qualities, one would have to go to a keep. Also, one could give crafting bonuses to keeps and forts which slowly increase with time as they're held by the same faction.
  2. I would remove the ability to remotely extract items from fort and keep banks to the temple and expand the storage at keeps to be perhaps three or four times as much per player.
  3. I would add a looting function to storage in forts and keeps. Not unlimited looting, but something like one stack from the storage's of all the players whose factions don't control the fort/keep transfers into a looting chest per hour, and players from the controlling faction can loot this chest, one stack per player, with a one hour cool-down individually per player.

These three changes make it critically important to control forts and keeps, to keep control, and if they're taken, puts a big motivation on the losing side to take it back, and soon.

Something similar should be done for camps and outposts; in my opinion, with an eye to their spatial connectivity to create vulnerable front lines and (relatively) safer rear areas.

The ability to sustain one's strategic operations should be the criteria by which we decide one side is winning and the others are losing. One idea is that we could have export point crafting at the major keeps. These would require faction-wide effort to collect some massive amount of resources and store at the keep, and then, once crafted, every member of the faction gets one export point. Perhaps these points become bound to the keep for that faction, so that if the keep is lost, the faction export points won't be available to them at the conclusion of winter when the points were distributed. There could even be a visual display of these as they're built up, and they could even be slowly lootable, like normal fort/keep storage would be, or even slowly destructible by the new owners. One could even make it possible in the early seasons to craft import points, which could be used at the conclusion of each season, but also tied to controlling the keeps and forts.

In this system, you win by getting the most rewards, not get the most rewards because you "won".

 

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28 minutes ago, Glitchhiker said:

@Ardrea In theory that would be quite nice and all but in reality it would just create a bigger Uncle Bob problem. It would only be fun for the winning faction and the game would die sooner than later.

Uncle Bob gets reset on each campaign. Is there a desire to have those who, after starting from the limited imports at the beginning of Spring like everyone else, are ahead in the middle of the campaign to get reset then?

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20 minutes ago, Ardrea said:

Uncle Bob gets reset on each campaign.

I don't think so. In the contrary. At the end of a campaign, people that are sick of losing will flock to the winning faction (in the current system)

 

23 minutes ago, Ardrea said:

Is there a desire to have those who, after starting from the limited imports at the beginning of Spring like everyone else, are ahead in the middle of the campaign to get reset then?

Please elaborate. I don't quite get what you're refering to.

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If there are rewards at the end, I can see people picking the side that is in the lead.

With the scores on the front that is pretty easy to do. 

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