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Glitchhiker

Fundamental tray imbalance

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Hey there,

I already brievly mentioned this problem in a suggestion post, but I'd like to discuss it more and see what you guys think about it.

So let's say you're a knight for example on max level and you got 2 nice major disciplines with alot of useful abilities to your disposal, but you simply only have 1 combat tray with 8-10 slots, meaning you probably have to give up a few good, but just not good enough abilities. On the other hand we have a ranger or any other  class with 2 or more trays. They distribute their default class abilities into 2 seperate trays and can keep way more space for race or discipline abilities. I know there are restriction for putting abilities in certain trays, but that doesn't solve the problem. This leads to quite the imbalance in overall flexibilty and the potential to adapt to specific situations/enemies.

There are 2 obvious solutions for me:

1. Make halfe/a third of the ability slots available per tray for classes with 2/3 combat trays

2. Give all classes the same amount of trays. Tho this is less preferable in my opinion, because it makes combat more complicated and less streamline. 8-10 abilities per class are enough.

 

Tell me how you feel about this. PS: I wrote this on my phone so there might be alot of misspellings.

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11 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Eh? 

I see what Glitchhiker is getting at, choice is a great part of the game, limited skills means you have to decide how you want to play but a ranger for example has all the skill bars and therefore if they jump from tray to tray they get a far greater number of skills.

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2 hours ago, mandalore said:

They can't all be slotted in every bar.  It's not intended for them to have the use of all of their bars at all times in all specs.  

I know about restrictions, but multi-tray classes still have way more options. When you  take the agent provokateur discipline for example. An assasin can put literally all of the abilities from the discipline into his stealth tray without having to relinquish any of his native abilities for it. Any other class with just one tray can never do the same with any discipline. And because the assasin splits his native abilities (I think all classes have the same amount of default abilities, right?) into combat and stealth tray, he also has more slots open in his combat tray to get even another full discipline in.

Does that explain my point better?

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2 hours ago, mandalore said:

Yes.  None of that is intended.  It’s all stuff they haven’t gotten to fixing and it’s pretty low on the prealpha fix list (as in bottom)

 

Better?

Very dismissive mandalore, take it you play one of those classes? Agree it’s not the most important thing currently but it’s still a valid point even if it’s not top of the fix list

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25 minutes ago, Synns said:

Very dismissive mandalore, take it you play one of those classes? Agree it’s not the most important thing currently but it’s still a valid point even if it’s not top of the fix list

Survey says?!

-zzzzzzt- 

Wrong!  I’m a support player.  I tend to play buff characters, healers or debuff characters.  In Shadowbane I played Doomsayers, support assys and debuff locks.  In CF I split my time between a Crusader Cleric or a Paladin Templar.  

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Have you considered that's why knight has a built in way to reduce incoming damage and ignore ccs, wear plate, carry a shield whivh contains extra mitigation, as well as one of the most versatile 3 stage combo abilities in the game?

Access to or lack thereof trays and power slots is a deliberate limitation used for balancing templates with each other. It's so integral in fact that it comprises the primary advantage of an entire race and has two minor discs dedicated to it.

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36 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Access to or lack thereof trays and power slots is a deliberate limitation used for balancing templates with each other. It's so integral in fact that it comprises the primary advantage of an entire race and has two minor discs dedicated to it.

With all due respect for the devs, i think you're giving them a bit too much credit in regards to balance so far.

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Just now, Glitchhiker said:

With all due respect for the devs, i think you're giving them a bit too much credit in regards to balance so far.

Implementation may not be perfect, and tbh we're just in to like v3 of customization with the new talent system but intent is obvious. Power slot limitations are a DELIBERATE resource limitation. That's why all the effort went in to... making sure different templates have different amounts of not just trays but number of slots ON the trays.

They even made a big deal of it back in the initial druid and ranger designs. That this was a deliberate feature of the class, a deliberate feature of majors that granted a new tray, etc.

This restriction isn't an oversight. It's an intentional design choice that took significant development time to implement.

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There are some classes that can use the major bow disciplines that add the range tray to their character...

You have a choice to add it at the cost of using a disc slot...

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On 1/4/2019 at 10:33 AM, mandalore said:

They can't all be slotted in every bar.  It's not intended for them to have the use of all of their bars at all times in all specs.  

by default a brigand has the ability to slot 40 skills... no disciplines required on the natural talent tree progression

whilst other classes can only slot 20

It's understood that not every skill can be slotted in each bar but it still equates to double the number of skills available for use (compared to other classes..

Maybe it's intended for a ranger to be able to have 8 buffs and still have 4+ dmg abilities in each of the melee/range/stealth trees

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I’ll do you a solid.  Make a post you want me to post on the dev partner boards and I’ll tag JTC in it.  I’ll have to put in the question that I’m going to post it here but I won’t alter it otherwise.  They do a good job answering questions there.  So phrase it better and post it here and I’ll post it there for you. 

@Glitchhiker

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7 hours ago, mandalore said:

I’ll do you a solid.  Make a post you want me to post on the dev partner boards and I’ll tag JTC in it.  I’ll have to put in the question that I’m going to post it here but I won’t alter it otherwise.  They do a good job answering questions there.  So phrase it better and post it here and I’ll post it there for you. 

@Glitchhiker

Sad that you would have to do that. You would think in testing phases like we are in the dev's would visit and interact in their own forums a little bit like every other alpha testing I have done. Maybe they don't care to fix the devtracker since they have no desire to interact with fan base outside of a locked subforum and folks would see no activity by devs for weeks at a time.

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There’s so much noise on these boards.  They are designing a game, not polling their boards for whatever player wants.  If I was them I wouldn’t even read the boards if I wasn’t part of the team assigned to mod it.   How many posts a day do you think are made? 

The dev partner boards exist for backers who spent a lot.  It’s a reward I’m willing to use on behalf of the OP.  Just let me know exactly what you want me to post. 

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