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Orange_007

This shouldn't be allowed

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3 minutes ago, Ussiah said:

what a great example of three people standing still with no armor while you're in full gear using spirit whip after debuffing their mitigations further with cent charge.

 

that druid is in full mail armor my guy, and i can tell you even with all my buffs up on my archer i couldn't kill an afk player anywhere near that fast when i have full uncommon gear as a dps class.

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It was just to show some numbers. Just trying to show that the Pit fighter can literally just be in the fight the entire time, just mindlessly LMBing and do a lot of damage with out really worrying about being killed. No one is really going to target you first. Tank should do less damage.

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if you can't kill some just as quick as an archer in full green gear spamming rapid fire and full pulling your bow......I don't know what to tell you other than play the JTC clip.

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2 minutes ago, Yoink said:

It was just to show some numbers. Just trying to show that the Pit fighter can literally just be in the fight the entire time, just mindlessly LMBing and do a lot of damage with out really worrying about being killed. No one is really going to target you first. Tank should do less damage.

Ya I don't disagree with that.

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4 minutes ago, Orange_007 said:

that druid is in full mail armor my guy, and i can tell you even with all my buffs up on my archer i couldn't kill an afk player anywhere near that fast when i have full uncommon gear as a dps class.

Archer is bad rn. I'd switch 

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What you can't see in this video clip is that were were chasing him longer than that. I was part of the group and because I know how stupid this class is, the ONLY thing I did was cycle CC and keep suppressing him. It did absolutely nothing. It's almost as if he has many ways to break CC and go immune or something :rolleyes:

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4hesgcr.jpg

Stacking dmg on any toon with good gear will lead to that. That being said pit-fighter should have less dmg. There should be a trade off in the last point in the tree. ie -15% dmg for extra hp/mits/barrier?

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Well yeah. I took the best available DPS options. But that is kind of the point I was making. You can build for full DPS and still be one of the most survivable characters in the fight. The only non DPS rune I took was study because its just really good.

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What the video comes down to is:

Poor group composition
Bad group coordination
Clever use of terrain

Some of which might be expected if you have three+ groups of players coming together.

Should players who have specced into survivability have the tools to be focused by a group?

The answer to me is, yes, absolutely. You need to have shot callers, cc machines, and other force multipliers in groups who will be focused and giving up some potential dps/utility for the ability to be targeted many times over the course of a fight and survive comes with the territory. This is how you differentiate between uncoordinated zerging and elite group play. IMO the way to tweak these classes is not to nerf the survivability talent branch but to balance their DPS and other utility.

For the record I have been involved with Endless's death with a smaller group of players with less coordination than that.

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8 minutes ago, Nerd said:

What the video comes down to is:

Poor group composition
Bad group coordination
Clever use of terrain

Some of which might be expected if you have three+ groups of players coming together.

Should players who have specced into survivability have the tools to be focused by a group?

The answer to me is, yes, absolutely. You need to have shot callers, cc machines, and other force multipliers in groups who will be focused and giving up some potential dps/utility for the ability to be targeted many times over the course of a fight and survive comes with the territory. This is how you differentiate between uncoordinated zerging and elite group play. IMO the way to tweak these classes is not to nerf the survivability talent branch but to balance their DPS and other utility.

For the record I have been involved with Endless's death with a smaller group of players with less coordination than that.

poor endless :C

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Maybe there aren't enough players with pitfighters but looking forward to seeing a fight where one faction zergs with like 40 of them. Just hope when that happens they are playing my faction.

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8 minutes ago, Nerd said:

What the video comes down to is:

Poor group composition
Bad group coordination
Clever use of terrain

Some of which might be expected if you have three+ groups of players coming together.

Should players who have specced into survivability have the tools to be focused by a group?

The answer to me is, yes, absolutely. You need to have shot callers, cc machines, and other force multipliers in groups who will be focused and giving up some potential dps/utility for the ability to be targeted many times over the course of a fight and survive comes with the territory. This is how you differentiate between uncoordinated zerging and elite group play. IMO the way to tweak these classes is not to nerf the survivability talent branch but to balance their DPS and other utility.

For the record I have been involved with Endless's death with a smaller group of players with less coordination than that.

You looked at the video and just responded, didn't you? It's almost as if with 2 pages of replies, there might be some clarification of what was going on. Not to mention he clipped the video later into the encounter. We were chasing him longer and the only thing I did was chain CC so that the others could dps. There's only 1 or 2 counters to this, which is what I put into a new character. But with that many people on someone, not having ANY of their built in abilities or the main discs being used able to counter 1 guy is a serious problem. A whole class/spec shouldn't be so strong that it takes a very niche discipline as the only thing that can counter.

This is obviously broken and I expect will get fixed, so I'm not too bothered by it myself. It's obnoxious testing but it is a test.

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No one on this thread is disputing that the class/spec is overpowered. What there all saying is if you had a better comp/more communication you would of actually killed him.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Tyrannicall said:

No one on this thread is disputing that the class/spec is overpowered. What there all saying is if you had a better comp/more communication you would of actually killed him.

Well to be fair there is a lot of lack of visual cues with many abilities. There's nothing really built in to point out to others or coordinate people to one point on map. No way to light a person up as a target, or to light a location up to converge. Even being in discord with people unless you are all already on a person, you can't really be like oh hey there's a guy over there. Because it's like "over where". You say NNE and someone's perspective of that is completely different.

When you are on someone and you can tell when abilities are being cast or when you should back off half the time means you can only coordinate so much. Meanwhile, for that particular instance, the guild members WERE in discord. I'm not sure how much coordination you can think will happen with non-guildies. There's no chat bubbles, no say chat, maybe all those people are seeing zone chat. But can you honestly say you think any kind of chat coordination could happen in the middle of a fight? Chat stop you from taking any action.

Now for those in the guild, once again, I was dedicating myself to cycling CC and cycling suppression (silence). That hit him many times before the point this video clip even started. Hell, it was after I kept doing this he stopped fighting and began to run. Running, breaking CC and healing that much while dashing and keeping away from people is another issue. At least make someone who makes themselves unkillable to be unkillable and kite like no one's business.

The only coordination that could have happened was a foresight that he was going to show up outside the keep, and people slotting the discipline or having it on had to swap into it on the fly.

But people keep saying lack of coordination, when it wasn't just a bunch of people hitting hitting autoattack. That many people on any other class would have killed it. 

GRANTED. He wasn't killing anyone else. ALSO granted, we know the class is OP and will be changed, but doesn't mean people can't highlight it. 

Edited by Navystylz

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56 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

You looked at the video and just responded, didn't you? It's almost as if with 2 pages of replies, there might be some clarification of what was going on. Not to mention he clipped the video later into the encounter. We were chasing him longer and the only thing I did was chain CC so that the others could dps. There's only 1 or 2 counters to this, which is what I put into a new character. But with that many people on someone, not having ANY of their built in abilities or the main discs being used able to counter 1 guy is a serious problem. A whole class/spec shouldn't be so strong that it takes a very niche discipline as the only thing that can counter.

This is obviously broken and I expect will get fixed, so I'm not too bothered by it myself. It's obnoxious testing but it is a test.

I'm not sure what you mean by chaining CCs as a Ranger, to my knowledge and as a Ranger main you can't permaCC chaining your abilities together as one even if you execute perfectly. Otherwise I think we would see more forum posts about it. Utility CCs does not make a CC class, and having a couple of classes that have utility CC is not enough for a large group to faceroll everything, as you have experienced.

To me this is not a game where you should be able to faceroll someone down if you have enough numbers no matter what. It's just too easy to roll alts and change your characters around. Group composition should matter.

To clarify again, I am not completely against pit fighter nerfs, I just don't think survivability is something to focus on when the expectation is that there will be big fights, where classes like the pit fighter would be in the front line.

18 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

But people keep saying lack of coordination, when it wasn't just a bunch of people hitting hitting autoattack.

The clip sure looks to me like it was three groups, none of which were in a unified voice channel, no group character builds, no tactics, just running at the enemy and facerolling when in range expecting something to die. Some of you might have tried to do random CC on your own. Should that level of coordination result in a kill on a tanky character in a big, organized fight? I don't think so, and it would cheapen the game if it did.

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The problem with the champion class its the whole kit being able to do everything + survivability roll that into pitfighter getting plate + more healing and its GG.  I rolled myself a champion so I could better understand the counter and its really is the easy mode specialization & class.  You have access to Tank & DPS while choosing pit fighter with non of the trade offs. Add in disciplines to go either way and you end up with an extremely broken class. 

I'm just glad we're not seeing 5 man pit fighter groups yet.

We'll see with the 5.8.1 patch though with the immunity being removed off their skills and being replaced with a 20% barrier.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Nerd said:

I'm not sure what you mean by chaining CCs as a Ranger, to my knowledge and as a Ranger main you can't permaCC chaining your abilities together as one even if you execute perfectly. Otherwise I think we would see more forum posts about it. Utility CCs does not make a CC class, and having a couple of classes that have utility CC is not enough for a large group to faceroll everything, as you have experienced.

To me this is not a game where you should be able to faceroll someone down if you have enough numbers no matter what. It's just too easy to roll alts and change your characters around. Group composition should matter.

To clarify again, I am not completely against pit fighter nerfs, I just don't think survivability is something to focus on when the expectation is that there will be big fights, where classes like the pit fighter would be in the front line.

The clip sure looks to me like it was three groups, none of which were in a unified voice channel, no group character builds, no tactics, just running at the enemy and facerolling when in range expecting something to die. Some of you might have tried to do random CC on your own. Should that level of coordination result in a kill on a tanky character in a big, organized fight? I don't think so, and it would cheapen the game if it did.

1. Forest Step into Tendon slice -> Slow

2. Sweep into Jab -> Knock down

3. Explosive Trap -> hoping it actually fires for once

4. Pin Down -> root

5. Dagger Spin x 3 -> Spammable suppression

 

Now the performance of the game dictates not all would land. That was just me. I can't speak for everyone else. The start of this clip was not the start of the fight. It became less coordinated as time went on and he just kept healing up, removing stuff and charging out of range running away. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that other people were likely trying to do the same thing. 

Stop making excuses as to why it's ok this guy survived. No one playing this game doesn't understand how overpowered this class is right now. Literally the only thing you can do to stop this is to use Militant mage to put the power cost increase on them so they kill the resources and can't keep doing this. The cooldown increase power from reality warper is a good addition. So, no Janet. With this many people on 1 guy, they all using the ablities this game gave them, and not being able to take down one guy without 2 very specific powers does not make this game better. Having more counters would not cheapen this game.

At least with Assassin you can counter with Elken racial, Warden Alertness, Mole-Hunter, Illusionist, damage reflect, chance to stun on being hit, or just aoeing in the right spot if they try and stealth.

Take this one guy you think is just a godly player, while everyone else is apparently just random ability spamming scrubs, and put them in a group with other people, especially other healers and it compounds the issue.

Let's put it in another way. He has disciplines and abilities that allow him to completely ignore anything you throw at him, while healing up. The heal reduction powers are very weak with big cooldowns. The amount of health he's constantly healing up, far outstrips the measily 500 healing that most can throw out, and the discs with shadow mantle or plague aren't doing much better. Shadow mantle in Shadowbane completely blocked healing. Apparently they thought that was too strong to have like that in this game, but then make it so that people can stack discs to completely negate a whole damage type for 15 seconds, while giving them invulnerability and healing. And that's somehow balanced??

TL;DR: We know this is OP and getting nerfed. Like you said no one is questioning how OP it is. But stop making it like people were just completely disorganized, and he was just such a better player. My Ranger also running a green vessel and green gear. So I wasn't even a white player beating on a mountain.

Edited by Navystylz

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Anyone who talks about CCing him obviously isn't playing this version of Crowfall.  CC is a joke unless its a knockup, knockdown or root.  Half the time they last a whole .5secs or they get (R)etaliated out of.  Those 10 guys chasing him around the hill were obviously using CC.  The Assassin was more than likely suppressing while hitting him in the back, but you can see him even PAUSE once because he is immune to CC.  Healing debuff? LuLz!  Dark mantle and the likes absorb a joke of 500 health.  That is 1 tick of his 6-10 ticks of health.  Don't defend broken mechanics with "its about the lore" or you will have half the zerger (server) playing this class since it can 1v10.

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