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TheTheorex

Really crappy feel if you try to play this game solo.

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As the title says, this game can't be played solo.  Meaning that if all of your friends get off (Saying you want to play casually).  You'll get punished because you can die everyone.  Which I am fine with.  What I am not fine with is, a level 30 player walking around Balances side of the map, killing low level players because they are gathering to try to get decent gear, while the level 30 has been playing from the start.  

Two solutions to this is.

1:  A level difference = how many items that you can take.  So a level 30 can't take a level 10's full inventory.  Make it like 2 things, for the 20 level difference, and then like 10 things for the 10 level difference.  Only going downward.  Meaning that if a level 10 somehow kills a level 30.  They can still take the full inventory.  Rewards for taking risk, not rewards for being safe and making the game unfun for others.  Legit, only reason I continue to play is because my Friends are like "we need you to make stuff for us."  its gotten to the point where.  I log on, make the stuff, and log off.  Because Its just a pain in the ass to try to gather, and then die because someone stuns you and kills you.  

2:  Make it so that level ranges matter.  Within a 5 level range, that gets turned off when taking over forts and what not.   


Now for all of you that are like.  

"Go level up and just fight back."  

Some people don't play this game to PvP.  I have league and siege for that.  I am playing this game to play around with Economics and Vendors.  Making potions and selling potions, that is what I aim for.  Its a waste of time to try to level up and fight things myself, when i can supply people with potions and poorly made socks to fight for me.  

The game is too tailored to PvP, with very little incentives for Crafting Focused Players.  Recommend fixing this issue.  Combat, I don't know about or care about too much.   But Crafting needs to be worked on quiet a bit.  I know its still Alpha, but this is the best time to drop my thoughts on these matters.

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Well I would disagree. First for a PVP full loot game this one is quite tame. The faction cities give you everything you need to make basic armor weapons and tools, all without ever seeing another player from another faction. Basically get all resources needed for free as far as I am concerned for a starting player. SO I can enter the game at level 30 with basic armor rune weapons and tools without ever being in danger of PVP. The only time you have to enter the actual campaign is to make the first stone masonry table for your EK. Sure if you want end game content like maxxed weapons tools etc.... you will need to go into the campaign, but if your friends want good equipment they will help you, or get a party of faction members together to gather better resources.

 

Yes it annoying to lose stuff, but you can always use your spirit bank or just bank often.

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There is the temple zone which is 100% safe from being killed where people can harvest advanced nodes for mats.

They dont need to gather nodes solo in pvp areas....

If you do go out into the pvp areas to harvest, then yes, you are susceptible to being killed...also there is a barrier near your gate back to the temple that will kill enemy players if they get too close...

 

 

Edited by Deernado

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23 minutes ago, TheTheorex said:


Some people don't play this game to PvP.  I have league and siege for that.  I am playing this game to play around with Economics and Vendors.  Making potions and selling potions, that is what I aim for.  Its a waste of time to try to level up and fight things myself, when i can supply people with potions and poorly made socks to fight for me.  

The game is too tailored to PvP, with very little incentives for Crafting Focused Players.  Recommend fixing this issue.  Combat, I don't know about or care about too much.   But Crafting needs to be worked on quiet a bit.  I know its still Alpha, but this is the best time to drop my thoughts on these matters.

 

This is a PVP game, with support systems like crafting, etc for holding up its economy. If you want to only play with the support systems thats fine, but that doesnt mean the devs need to cater to that and redesign the PVP concept. 

I'd say guild/group up and go harvest...problem solved...

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Unfortunately the game is designed to force a PVP player to make PVE grind and force a PVE player to go to PVP zones, ie the game tries to force the player to do things that he does not want or to specialize in something and lose other aspects about the game. Many restrictions for a Sandbox game.
In my opinion the DEVs should follow three strands in the game:

1- Create a complete and competitive PVE mode, where players must face another players through Craft Tournaments, competitions where players would compete to know who can forge the best weapon in a given time , who can manage to make more healing potions, who can sell more things in market, who can collect more ores or build the biggest castle... PVE events focused on craft expertise against another crafters.

2- Create a full PVP mode where the PVE grind is within a PVP zone from the beginning. Of course, this mode could have a system to avoid powercreep and zergs and would be focused on the competitive side with a balancing system.

3- Doing this same thing they are doing now. Mega Zergs, obligation you to enter a guild, VETs killing noobs without these can get away, full loot and those things that are annoying to new players that you are complaining about.

Edited by hamon

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4 hours ago, TheTheorex said:

Some people don't play this game to PvP.  I have league and siege for that.  I am playing this game to play around with Economics and Vendors.  Making potions and selling potions, that is what I aim for.  Its a waste of time to try to level up and fight things myself, when i can supply people with potions and poorly made socks to fight for me.  

The game is too tailored to PvP, with very little incentives for Crafting Focused Players. 

It is a PvP game by design.  If you want the best materials to craft you will need to expose yourself to the dangers of PvP.  If it were not so then everyone could have the best stuff.  It follows that the best stuff is then basically worthless.  No one will care to buy it from you because it is easily available with minimum risk.  

You have limited choices as a solo player.  I guess at some point a trader could ply the EK's looking for deals to do some buy low and sell high transactions, or, buy the ingredients needed to combine and make more complex items.

As others have said, the solution is to find a group ....

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1)  The point is to allow P)layer vs P)layer to exist in the first place, not P)layer vs L)evel or G)rind / T)raining.

2)  To accomplish this, the entire scaling of power/dominance has to be a gentle gradient bounded  by lowbs still capable of being dangerous to "Vets" at the other end, while also allowing Vets their advantages.  e.g. "Advantage" does not have to be synonymous with untouchable Vets.  Just as a Lowb should be very wary of a Vet 1v1, a Vet should be wary of taking on too many "lowbs" (whatever "many" is).  Risk and Danger at both ends of the scale.

3)  "The Grind", or "Levelling", or "Training" then simply becomes a natural part of playing the game, instead of a crack-heads focus on "stroking the mechanics", be it account stabling over time to gain passively levelled/trained assets to be sold off to new players, etc.

4)  "PvP" is something we do, it's not why we are there.  While PvP is the adrenaline rush when it's happening, it is, IMO, not the binary centerpoint around which everything revolves.  If it was, lets just stop double-talking and turn CF into a fantasy version of Counterstrike or any other FPS.  Specifically, PVP involving personal objectives such as protecting caravans bringing goods back to a base, or defending (or taking) an installation, etc., is vastly more satisfying than (for instance) just dropping into an Arena to pew-pew / facrollthekeyboardspankywanky.  Wielding PvP to successfully bring a Caravan home, or to protect someone is where it's at for me.

5)  The first, highest priority for PvP is Population.  And that includes enough space in the CW for a balanced degree of "solo" activity.  As opposed to a tuna-can approach (relatively speaking) where the size of the CW themeparks (forces) rolling balls of groups while simultaneously forcing-out all solo activity.  Variety is the Spice of Life, we want the CWs highly attractive to ALL play styles and activities, sized appropriately to allow all modes of play to live and breathe well without any of those modes choking off any of the others.  It is expected that solo activity will carry with it the risks of being solo.  But that must be true for the solo Hunter as much as it is of the solo Harvester (e.g. Five harvesters with head bashing mining picks might be (for instance) a potential mouthful for one Hunter . . . who might be tempted to call in another buddy or two to take out the five, burly Miners . . . just as a conceptual example.  PvP is a dangerous occupation after all, if that's your choice).

6)  This means, IMO, it is a fallacious idea that PvE and PvP are separate domains.  That we have to structure (theme park) PvE events for PvE oriented people, and PvP events for PvP oriented people, because that's the nature of "the structure".  It's not.  That's simply how some people theme-park their heads into square boxes.  While you can have PvE competitions (e.g. crafting competitions), and you can have PvP competitions (eg. Tournaments or what have you), those things have absolutely nothing to do with the idea that's what defines PvE vs PvP activity.

Because if we consider  WHY we go to a CW, what our goals are, what we need to bring back to advance our EK or Guild or personal fortunes or crafting activity, the E)nvironment and everything "PvE" simply becomes part of the whole, interwoven through everything we do in a CW.

Assuming, of course, that you've built the construct to support that game play design objective to begin with (or not).

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Awwww, sorry to hear that you got caught by some guy who was "playing to crush" while you were "playing to farm".

 

Tell you what ... here is a cookie.

matrix_1_cookie.JPG

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7 hours ago, TheTheorex said:

Its a waste of time to try to level up

Even as a crafter/merchant you will want to level up - to open all the slots for crafting disciplines and for stats that help your crafting specialization. You can level all the way to 30 without ever leaving the Temple/EK safe zones if you prefer to level solo with no risk. Sacrificing crafted items in the fire pit is a very efficient way to level.

So I don't see levels as an issue really, the problem you are describing is more about non-combat players trying to harvest and craft in a pvp-focused environment. The developers have said they know that the risk is too heavily weighted right now in favor of the "hunters", so we'll see what changes and new features are added to help the risk vs reward balance.

 

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7 hours ago, Bramble said:

1)  The point is to allow P)layer vs P)layer to exist in the first place, not P)layer vs L)evel or G)rind / T)raining.

2)  To accomplish this, the entire scaling of power/dominance has to be a gentle gradient bounded  by lowbs still capable of being dangerous to "Vets" at the other end, while also allowing Vets their advantages.  e.g. "Advantage" does not have to be synonymous with untouchable Vets.  Just as a Lowb should be very wary of a Vet 1v1, a Vet should be wary of taking on too many "lowbs" (whatever "many" is).  Risk and Danger at both ends of the scale.

3)  "The Grind", or "Levelling", or "Training" then simply becomes a natural part of playing the game, instead of a crack-heads focus on "stroking the mechanics", be it account stabling over time to gain passively levelled/trained assets to be sold off to new players, etc.

4)  "PvP" is something we do, it's not why we are there.  While PvP is the adrenaline rush when it's happening, it is, IMO, not the binary centerpoint around which everything revolves.  If it was, lets just stop double-talking and turn CF into a fantasy version of Counterstrike or any other FPS.  Specifically, PVP involving personal objectives such as protecting caravans bringing goods back to a base, or defending (or taking) an installation, etc., is vastly more satisfying than (for instance) just dropping into an Arena to pew-pew / facrollthekeyboardspankywanky.  Wielding PvP to successfully bring a Caravan home, or to protect someone is where it's at for me.

5)  The first, highest priority for PvP is Population.  And that includes enough space in the CW for a balanced degree of "solo" activity.  As opposed to a tuna-can approach (relatively speaking) where the size of the CW themeparks (forces) rolling balls of groups while simultaneously forcing-out all solo activity.  Variety is the Spice of Life, we want the CWs highly attractive to ALL play styles and activities, sized appropriately to allow all modes of play to live and breathe well without any of those modes choking off any of the others.  It is expected that solo activity will carry with it the risks of being solo.  But that must be true for the solo Hunter as much as it is of the solo Harvester (e.g. Five harvesters with head bashing mining picks might be (for instance) a potential mouthful for one Hunter . . . who might be tempted to call in another buddy or two to take out the five, burly Miners . . . just as a conceptual example.  PvP is a dangerous occupation after all, if that's your choice).

6)  This means, IMO, it is a fallacious idea that PvE and PvP are separate domains.  That we have to structure (theme park) PvE events for PvE oriented people, and PvP events for PvP oriented people, because that's the nature of "the structure".  It's not.  That's simply how some people theme-park their heads into square boxes.  While you can have PvE competitions (e.g. crafting competitions), and you can have PvP competitions (eg. Tournaments or what have you), those things have absolutely nothing to do with the idea that's what defines PvE vs PvP activity.

Because if we consider  WHY we go to a CW, what our goals are, what we need to bring back to advance our EK or Guild or personal fortunes or crafting activity, the E)nvironment and everything "PvE" simply becomes part of the whole, interwoven through everything we do in a CW.

Assuming, of course, that you've built the construct to support that game play design objective to begin with (or not).

2. Well to be fair, it's not at the point where balancing is a huge priority, I don't think. They're trying to get all the base mechanics and technology in first, and then tweak numbers after. And we're lucky to be getting the ones we are like the advanced weapon fix.

4. The whole point of this game is PVP. People like you and Hamon seem to thing you can advocate PvP becoming secondary, just because they have a very robust crafting system that puts most games to shame. Games like this used to exist a lot, and then were watered down into the WoW-era trash that liked to pretend to know PvP. These guys are bringing back the roots. So stop trying to bring in this CS or Battle Royale bs.

6. There is no PvE. The extent of PvE is just the most basic monster bash for materials and leveling. There no attractions to see, no PvE events, no dungeons or raids on boss monsters. And if there ever will be, is going to be solely for PvP to happen for that special rare resource.

7. It's pre-alpha. That is the only reason you can jump back and forth so easy with no penalties. You guys are treating test mechanics as if they are LIVE mechanics. Some campaigns won't even let you import into the campaign. 

Ya, it feels very weird now while things are being built still, but the end game is that everything is PvP, promotes PvP, and PvP will protect the harvesters that are out in the dangerous world of PvP, to support MORE PvP.

All these change PvP into PvE mechanics and make PvP a sideshow from people without a K under their names just miffs tf out of me. It's cool yall threw down your $50 to try early. But many of us threw down hundreds or thousands of dollars on this game to get it started with a very specific vision of PvP incorporating elements of Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies and EVE. And if you are a kickstarter, then shame on you because you should have known that game you were backing and stop trying to turn it into instanced pvp trash you find in games like WoW.

Edited by Navystylz

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What I don’t get is why there has to be a continual arguement between the hardcore pvp and the pve elements. We all want this game to do well so in order to get a good player base why not appease all and compromise.

why do the Pvper have to clear out someone’s hard work when they kill them, why not limit it : maybe only allow 2 items to be taken of the pvpers choice or give the pver a bag with limited space to put their most precious items. 

Another option is reward pvpers gold per kill and maybe let them loot any gold the player is carrying aswell, that way the harvesters keep their stuff and make money from selling it to crafters, crafters make their money from selling their items, pve players can make gold from farming mobs and PVPers make their money from Killing. This would then encourage more people from all preferences to want to play the game. 

More people means more prey!!!

on top of that you still have all the pvp content and could still have the very hardcore campaigns for those that want it. Everyone wins.

Edited by Synns
Gramma

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5 hours ago, Zolaz said:

Awwww, sorry to hear that you got caught by some guy who was "playing to crush" while you were "playing to farm".

Crush what..more trees and rocks???

He's a new player and doing EXACTLY what the problem is with this game so far.  FARM-SIMULATOR.  Leaves new players with a completely different idea of what this game WAS supposed to be.  Welcome to CRAFT-ALL.

 

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2 hours ago, Synns said:

why do the Pvper have to clear out someone’s hard work when they kill them, why not limit it : maybe only allow 2 items to be taken of the pvpers choice or give the pver a bag with limited space to put their most precious items. 

 

Because this is the hardcore element of the game i love the most. Otherwise everything gets meaningless again, if they change it like you guys suggest. I'm getting ganked all the time and i love it, ofc it's frustrating if you have full loot but it force you to find a way around, talking to each other (i see all the time in chat, lfg for farming etc.) and this is what it's about for me. Log in to wow these days.. everything is so meaningless. Buy Game push button and you're lvl 100, push button and you're in a dungeon with randoms you don't even say hi to. 

I don't want crowfall to be like these games, which get easier with every update and also more and more meaningless. 

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1 hour ago, Battlex said:

Because this is the hardcore element of the game i love the most. Otherwise everything gets meaningless again, if they change it like you guys suggest. I'm getting ganked all the time and i love it, ofc it's frustrating if you have full loot but it force you to find a way around, talking to each other (i see all the time in chat, lfg for farming etc.) and this is what it's about for me. Log in to wow these days.. everything is so meaningless. Buy Game push button and you're lvl 100, push button and you're in a dungeon with randoms you don't even say hi to. 

I don't want crowfall to be like these games, which get easier with every update and also more and more meaningless. 

This is why there should still be campaigns that fit that mindset. I’m happy how it is personally but many people won’t be. Without players there is no game. Otherwise all you end up with is a niche game with a low player base that just dies a death. Times have moved on and majority of people haven’t got the mindset anymore for the super hardcore experience. 

Which is why I’ve attempted to come up with compromises that still make it very much a pvp game but could bring in more players.

Some people will never be happy to compromise but they would be less happy if there was no game at all or they have no one to kill because majority won’t play it? Just a thought

Edited by Synns
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I think this game will be a niche game and a good one too. If there will be a hardcore playerbase, i think this game has the potential to live forever - just like EVE Online. I think the best goal is to make a hardcore niche game with a strong playerbase. For me and many other it will be at least. 

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9 minutes ago, Battlex said:

I think this game will be a niche game and a good one too. If there will be a hardcore playerbase, i think this game has the potential to live forever - just like EVE Online. I think the best goal is to make a hardcore niche game with a strong playerbase. For me and many other it will be at least. 

Time will tell I guess, but if not careful it will die like Shadowbane and Darkfall. A lot of potential if the right decisions are made along the way. 

 

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5 hours ago, Wrain said:

Crush what..more trees and rocks???

He's a new player and doing EXACTLY what the problem is with this game so far.  FARM-SIMULATOR.  Leaves new players with a completely different idea of what this game WAS supposed to be.  Welcome to CRAFT-ALL.

 

The italics, bolded and underlined caps really makes your posts look like a mad man screaming in time square about aliens inducting your dog into a secret society of super dog secret rulers.  

Almost everybody agrees that farming is a little much.  Nobody wants more harvesting.  We get it.  Calm down.  

 

As for the OP, this isn’t marketed as a solo game.  The devs have always said you will do better with friends than solo.   I suggest you find a guild (something more than 3 people) and figure out the game.  You need harvesters, crafters, PvP’ers, leaders, and theory crafters; you’re not doing it all on your own. 

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If you want to play solo in this game, you have to be smart about it. You can't just go out into the world and expect that you won't get attacked. There are many things you can do to mitigate your risk:

1) As has been mentioned, you can level your vessel to 30 within the safety of the starter zone/temple if you want to. There are places for vendors in the temples and as we get longer campaigns and the economy gets going more, you will start to see weapons and armor for sale, so you'll even be able to gear up without leaving the safe zones, if you want. It won't be easy--rank 1 pack pigs don't drop much gold--but you can do it. That's the tradeoff. You can hide behind the walls and take longer to level/gear up, or you can risk going out into the world for quicker gains.

2) Harvest using a class that has stealth. While harvesting you will be vulnerable, but you can remain hidden while moving about the world. 

3) Scout out the area you want to harvest before you begin. Know which nodes you want to hit and in what order you want to hit them. See if there is anyone else in the area before you begin. If there are outposts in the area that your faction doesn't own, consider taking them before you begin so you have a fallback position. Having the guards at your back might not save you in most cases, but they can't hurt.

4) Harvest close to a fort or keep that your faction owns and make use of the local bank often. Getting killed isn't a big deal if you just banked all your stuff. Alternately, you can look for locations where no one is likely to find you. Look at the campaign map and see if there are any outposts that haven't been captured. You can tell because the circle around the zone won't be fully filled in. If an outpost hasn't been taken, that means that people don't go there much, if at all. The area might only have low rank stuff, but you'll be at less risk.

5) Make sure your tools are good enough for the nodes you are harvesting. If it takes you 2 stamina bars to destroy a node, that's twice the amount of time you are exposed.

6) Improve your harvesting skills and/or use potions and food so that you can afford to take combat disciplines instead of harvesting disciplines. Equip yourself with advanced gear. Give yourself a chance to fight back if you do get attacked.

7) Pay attention to chat. There may be reports of someone in the area. Maybe someone just got attacked nearby. Ask in zone chat if anyone has seen anything and you if you see something, report it to your fellow harvesters. Maybe you got lucky. You just finished off a node and dropped into stealth before a group of 3 enemies came running through. Let other people know about it.

8) If your play time is flexible, try to harvest when there are less people playing, or switch to a less populated campaign, if that's an option for you.

None of this is a guarantee that you will be safe while harvesting in the PvP areas, but they will certainly help your chances. If all else fails, look for other people who want to harvest and work with them. You still won't be 100% safe, but a solo player looking for kills is more likely to pass you by if there are 3 or 4 of you rather than just 1. 

I have done a lot of solo harvesting in this game. Yes, I have gotten attacked and killed, but not that often, and I have managed to escape or even kill the attacker on occasion. Don't expect the game to protect you. Learn to protect yourself.

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