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CrowinOrlando

Combat tree passive skill training rework suggestions

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IMO Combat passive skill training should be about efficiency/durability and NOT have any kind of direct 1v1 player versus player damage improvements or reductions. My reasoning for this is simple - Veterans will already have enough advantages over new players through game familiarity, better crafted gear, previously exported campaign resources, better crafted vessels, and finally disciplines. That is already enough reasons to discourage a new player from joining this game years after it's released however with the right guild and dedication they can overcome those deficiencies. There is no reason to compound that concern with a mechanic that the new player feels that they can never "catch up" to Vets on. And yes, I have read about the Developer proposed Skill Tomes, but I believe those are a clumsy and unnecessary solution to address the core problem which is - why can a Veteran Player do/absorb more damage than me if all other gear is equal, simply because their account is older?    

Some examples of current combat tree passives that I think should be replaced:
-Increase Weapon Damage by X%
-Increase Maximum Health by X
-Increase Critical Hit Chance by X%
-Increase Critical Hit Damage by X%
-Increase Attack Power when using weapon type X

Some examples of current combat tree passives that I think are fine and great examples of using efficiency/durability:
-Decrease resource cost when using X weapon type
-Decrease durability loss when using X weapon/armor type

Some random examples of new combat tree passives they could add to replace the power increasing ones:
-Increase combat Siege weapon damage
-Increase combat damage done/taken from monsters
-Increase combat damage done/taken from Guard NPCs 
-Literally all of the current attack power/crit damage/crit chance stuff but applied to NPCs only

I think this post will have a mixed reception based on some earlier threads I've seen touch on this subject, but here goes nothing. Change my mind. 

Edited by CrowinOrlando

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no thanks, buy skill tomes if you wanna be equal to an older account

Edited by Staff
cause i felt like it

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I personally wouldnt mind since combat stuff could be moved to the active skill tree. That said, this aint ever gonna fly 'round here. People these parts are the kind who wants every bit of edge -- even if they dont need it, and even if it makes for boring general gameplay.

"If I wanted fair fights I would play a MOBA!" -- Wait for it. You will hear something similar...

Edited by BarriaKarl

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30 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

"If I wanted fair fights I would play a MOBA!" -- Wait for it. You will hear something similar...

HAH! That’s hilarious. I would think most PvPers want reasonably fair fights, where the player with the most mechanical skill / better decision making wins, but I do wonder about some of this community. 

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31 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

I wouldn't mind not having to worry about combat passive training 😄

It could still have real value from a durability/efficiency/mob farming/sieging standpoint, just not imbalanced direct power boosts for older accounts against younger accounts (all other things being equal). 

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1 hour ago, Staff said:

no thanks, buy skill tomes if you wanna be equal to an older account

... and you don’t see how that will be construed as “pay to win”? Sorry, the details on Skill Tomes are a bit shady to me. If you take out the direct player against player damage / health bonuses from passive combat skill training there would be no reason you couldn’t still have Skill Tomes available for purchase. Hell, you wouldn’t even need to implement passive skill caps like the devs have been discussing since nothing would make you overpowered but simply more efficient (in combat) or proficient (in crafting/harvesting). 

Edited by CrowinOrlando
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2 minutes ago, CrowinOrlando said:

... and you don’t see how that will be construed as “pay to win”? Sorry, the details on Skill Tomes are a bit shady to me. If you take out the direct player against player damage / health bonuses from passive combat skill training there would be no reason you couldn’t still have Skill Tomes available for purchase. Hell, you wouldn’t even need to implement passive skill caps like the devs have been discussing since nothing would make you overpowered but simply more efficienct (in combat) or proficient (in crafting/harvesting). 

Pay to win how? Cause you'll be buying them with gold from other players and there will certainly be players with alts dedicated to solely farming points to sell, it gives your build a uniqueness that isnt found in other games, someone else could have the exact same build as yours but it will operate differently based on your passive training

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8 minutes ago, CrowinOrlando said:

... and you don’t see how that will be construed as “pay to win”? Sorry, the details on Skill Tomes are a bit shady to me. If you take out the direct player against player damage / health bonuses from passive combat skill training there would be no reason you couldn’t still have Skill Tomes available for purchase. Hell, you wouldn’t even need to implement passive skill caps like the devs have been discussing since nothing would make you overpowered but simply more efficienct (in combat) or proficient (in crafting/harvesting). 

You get them by trading with other players, not ACE. 

They come from players in exchange for ... well whatever, but in many/most cases will probably be in game goods.  There will probably be guilds that stockpile them to give new members a boost when they start.

The power curve is supposed to be shallow enough that the difference between fully trained and untrained is not insurmountable. They are at this moment adjusting gear to flatten the curve because it was not shallow enough, so if passive training is a problem, they will adjust that as well.

Besides, this is a group v group game, and 1v1 or 5v5 is not even intended to be "balanced".

All the things you are talking about with "efficiency" like "decrease resource cost" is just different types of advantages but will ultimately result in better DPS anyway. 

You can't alter the system without impacting on the battlefield performance in some way. It just looks like you don't like the "how", rather than the final impact.

 

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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I'm more for an easier alternative to obtaining something close to a veterans created "adv. vessel stats". A later in campaign "buff" (god statue buff?) 
A shy alternative to obtaining veteran created "adv. vessel stats". Offer a "buff" for new/late joiners to atleast then participate in a few combat sessions against them. (A temporary catch-up mechanic.)

If a late campaign joiner could somehow get a temporary stat buff (random god statue? offering buffs later in campaign) that would essentially wear off after so many deaths/uses, and its stats just below obtainable Adv. vessels stats. This buff could even have negative side effects after buff ends. Or only offered a limited timeframe, to postpone the player from further combat participation. Thus then forcing them to go out and gain mats/gold and actually gain a new vessel. 

This to be a solution to players that join late/do not play much/ low gold to purchase (Especially if Tomes are to be purchased by gold as well and their gold already spoken for + gaining their equipment)/no mats/ no starting guild to gain a vessel. These players can then gain a buff to atleast hold some ground against adv. vessels for a time limit.
Again, Buff goes away after a number of deaths.? Could have side effects and is temporary. (something that doesn't stack with vessels)

Essentially I would like to see Vessels to be more a time invested obtained reward.. and you gain the advance vessel stats only because you obtained it (crafted it) quicker then other players or have more time to invest, rather then end campaign having a huge upper hand. Thus you always have to create a better vessel as campaign progresses and as quick as possible to stay "advanced" then others. A god statue could give buffs at certain campaign time events (Example, like as the seasons change, a new buff is available)

Edited by DealsTru

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16 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

All the things you are talking about with "efficiency" like "decrease resource cost" is just different types of advantages but will ultimately result in better DPS anyway.

Except for the resource cost perk. How do you think it could result in better DPS. Please explain

Edit: Nevermind. You only ever talked about efficiency perks and these do improve dps indirectly. I like idea of not dps improving perks tho.

Edited by Glitchhiker

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I've focused one path of my training on harvesting, and the other on crafting with some combat. Because of my choices, I can do things that a combat focused player cannot. How are those harvest crits treating you? Plentiful 4 in the dead of winter? Consistently successful final assemblies & 10 point experimentation working out well?

A combat focused player should be able to kick ass and take bubble gum when they're all out.

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