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Path to Alpha - Official discussion thread

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50 minutes ago, Darguth said:

What is this projects interface you speak of?

 

43 minutes ago, Arkade said:

It's the new crafting UI. They showed it off in an article or video, I don't remember exactly when. They were hoping to get it into 5.8, but it didn't make it. 

Basically, instead of having separate recipes for every subcomponent and having to switch around between them, you would have a recipe for a Mace, and the recipe would take you through all the steps, including the subcomponents, until you get to the finished product.

If I can find where they talked about it, I'll link it.

this

CF_CraftingTeaserDec2017.jpg

 

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I like the way this is communicated and I think the community as a whole will be pretty pleased with the direction this is going. At some stages it’s vital to take a step back and just think about what a viable MVP for alpha should include. In my opinion it’s definitely the right choice to focus on stability, networking and performance right now. 

Also the new crafting interface looks promising. I hope wo get a UI overhaul in the near future as well.

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I think what I'm looking forward to the most is 5.9. If this game smooths out play-wise as much as they say, along with the previous implementation of 5.8, we're looking at probably drawing a pretty decent-sized crowd. 

I'm just look forward to movement and execution flowing better. Nothing is going to solidify the game like that will at this point. 

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There are a lot of Should have & Could have items being discussed that I think can be added during alpha, but IMO the Must have items for a real alpha have to include:

  • stable mass combat. Smooth performace for players using min spec computers (what is the min spec?), up to your target peak battle size (what is that number?), with an acceptable performance falloff when max player numbers are exceeded while remaining stable.
  • resolve the group FPS issue.
  • player & guild inventory tech hurdle behind you.
  • Any other fundamental tech issues.

These are potentially significant hurdles at the core of the design that need to be resolved in order to have a solid proof of concept model to proceed on. With them resolved, you'll have a solid foundation to build the rest of the game on.

Edited by VaMei

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On a good note, they put most of their team towards working on the many lag issues. On a bad note, they split their manpower months ago to work on artisan engine marketed towards competing mmo's. I think many people will be surprised at how much does not make the release cut.  I Would rather they delay release then cut features, but I realize they have deadlines and limited resources.

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Gameplay wise it looks like we are ready to go, the major systems are in place. I will agree that at this point effort needs to be put into polish. However, some of this polish might require that these features be tweaked heavily, or new systems might need to get added. I don't agree that there should be a point in time where you essentially initiate a change freeze, if there are critical things missing they have to be implemented.

My biggest fear (and probably yours too) is that the game gets released too early with key quality of life features missing and the big population wave that comes with new games does not stick around, at all, and a month later the playerbase is gone. When you do that big marketing push, you get one shot at it. There are many features missing right now that could cause this to happen, some of which I have expressed previously.

What I think might be beneficial is if you let us know exactly what features are going to make it, the current status of each of these features, and which features are going to be held back so the community can help you prioritize. Something like a roadmap, I'm sure you have one internally that you can make tweaks to and show us.

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1 hour ago, mystafyi said:

On a good note, they put most of their team towards working on the many lag issues. On a bad note, they split their manpower months ago to work on artisan engine marketed towards competing mmo's. I think many people will be surprised at how much does not make the release cut.  I Would rather they delay release then cut features, but I realize they have deadlines and limited resources.

Actually, they hired a separate team to work on the artisan engine, and they leveraged those people to help out on the engineering issues with Crowfall.

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1 hour ago, Nerd said:

My biggest fear (and probably yours too) is that the game gets released too early with key quality of life features missing and the big population wave that comes with new games does not stick around, at all, and a month later the playerbase is gone. When you do that big marketing push, you get one shot at it. There are many features missing right now that could cause this to happen, some of which I have expressed previously.

The big marketing push will happen sometime after soft launch. They will use the time in between to do whatever is necessary to ensure a high retention rate.

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2 hours ago, Nerd said:

My biggest fear (and probably yours too) is that the game gets released too early with key quality of life features missing and the big population wave that comes with new games does not stick around, at all, and a month later the playerbase is gone. When you do that big marketing push, you get one shot at it. There are many features missing right now that could cause this to happen, some of which I have expressed previously.

Remember, we're talking about the path to alpha, not going to release. To call it Alpha, they need a solid core that can be added to during alpha, beta, and beyond.

In terms of game elements, I think Ace has more than cleared the bar for alpha testing. If 5.9 & 6.0 can close all of their captured tech gaps and resolve performance issues, then we can spend alpha trying to crush their servers while they add game elements for us to break.

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2 hours ago, VaMei said:

In terms of game elements, I think Ace has more than cleared the bar for alpha testing. If 5.9 & 6.0 can close all of their captured tech gaps and resolve performance issues, then we can spend alpha trying to crush their servers while they add game elements for us to break.

Aren't we doing that already? :P

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I hope they do more to fix the open world economy before adding roving bands of NPCs. I've described how it is non existent without having player-made vendors (or allowing player temporary market stands as I have posted about in the past) in these campaigns. Relying on general / faction chat, or asking guild, for buying selling and trading materials does not seem like a successful economy.  

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2 hours ago, ilogos said:

I hope they do more to fix the open world economy before adding roving bands of NPCs. I've described how it is non existent without having player-made vendors (or allowing player temporary market stands as I have posted about in the past) in these campaigns. Relying on general / faction chat, or asking guild, for buying selling and trading materials does not seem like a successful economy.  

at the moment player's can place player ran vendors both inside a faction's temple beachead OR the 'free city' for all factions to use

 

Edited by Tinnis

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I think you are doing a great job. looking farward for more things. The game is already solid, just now make the right decissions to make it a great expirience ;)

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1 hour ago, Tinnis said:

at the moment player's can place player ran vendors both inside a faction's temple beachead of the 'free city' for all factions to use

 

Thanks for the video - good to know that we can place permanent stalls now during a campaign. I still think there is quite a "curve" to get there - i.e. you need to train your passive skills there, have all the resources to make a vendor and stall, need to have the funds to maintain the stall, and need to be there before the other player to place the stall. Therefore, I'd still like to see a system where an individual can set up a temporary shop anywhere to benefit the "small businesses". Otherwise we are going to see a lot of trade chat spam and dependency on large/wealthy guilds.

 

Edit: I suppose an alternate solution would be to make it so players can only have their vendor up for a limited amount of time - with a temporary lock out timer - in order to let other players put a vendor up with minimal competition...

Edited by ilogos

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1 hour ago, ilogos said:

Thanks for the video - good to know that we can place permanent stalls now during a campaign. I still think there is quite a "curve" to get there - i.e. you need to train your passive skills there, have all the resources to make a vendor and stall, need to have the funds to maintain the stall, and need to be there before the other player to place the stall. Therefore, I'd still like to see a system where an individual can set up a temporary shop anywhere to benefit the "small businesses". Otherwise we are going to see a lot of trade chat spam and dependency on large/wealthy guilds.

 

Edit: I suppose an alternate solution would be to make it so players can only have their vendor up for a limited amount of time - with a temporary lock out timer - in order to let other players put a vendor up with minimal competition...

There are 6 vendor locations in each temple, I think, and quite a bit more in the free city. If necessary, they can always expand the free city to add more. None of these require the crafting of a stall, just the vendor. The stalls are already there. Right now, vendors are very easy to make. In the future, we will likely have to capture thralls and put them to work as vendors, but passive skill training won't be a gate on getting a vendor up (not a significant one anyway). With recipes being attached to disciplines and in the future, disciplines to talents, players will be able to unlock the advanced recipes just by leveling up. Skill training will obviously be needed to make better stuff, but that won't stop people from making and selling white quality gear.

Right now, if you don't pay your upkeep on a vendor, items start getting deleted from the vendor as payment. After 24 hours, if the upkeep isn't paid, the vendor is deleted. It's possible that we'll need other mechanisms to limit it, but let's see how it goes once we get to longer campaigns and people are more inclined to place vendors. From what I've seen, we haven't even come close to filling up the free city yet on any of the campaigns. I've never even seen a temple with all the vendor slots filled.

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8 minutes ago, Arkade said:

There are 6 vendor locations in each temple, I think, and quite a bit more in the free city. If necessary, they can always expand the free city to add more. None of these require the crafting of a stall, just the vendor. The stalls are already there. Right now, vendors are very easy to make. In the future, we will likely have to capture thralls and put them to work as vendors, but passive skill training won't be a gate on getting a vendor up (not a significant one anyway). With recipes being attached to disciplines and in the future, disciplines to talents, players will be able to unlock the advanced recipes just by leveling up. Skill training will obviously be needed to make better stuff, but that won't stop people from making and selling white quality gear.

Right now, if you don't pay your upkeep on a vendor, items start getting deleted from the vendor as payment. After 24 hours, if the upkeep isn't paid, the vendor is deleted. It's possible that we'll need other mechanisms to limit it, but let's see how it goes once we get to longer campaigns and people are more inclined to place vendors. From what I've seen, we haven't even come close to filling up the free city yet on any of the campaigns. I've never even seen a temple with all the vendor slots filled.

Thank you with the very good points. I think we both agree it deserves more attention throughout alpha. I mostly was surprised that there wasnt a mention of the economy in the news article - but then again I shouldnt expect them to bring up everything about the game that needs attention.

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