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squarll

Why should i bother to play in alpha?

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55 minutes ago, Ungood said:

To be honest, with everything I had read before I backed the game, I really was expecting something more along the lines of a Mincraft/DAoC type hybrid,  something akin to a game like Trove™ going Realms vs Realms, with the idea of non-static/randomized campaign worlds, endless options for world building and exploration as well as  being able to teraform the landscape, a fully destructible yet RvR centered world that were on time frames till they died away and we needed to start the battles anew, but, you know, with less voxel style graphics.

That was what I was expecting from the videos and advertisements I saw.. apparently.. that is not the case.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sogar said:

A "good" new player experience

You can't really "test the waters" of a guild based game without a guild. You can test the mechanics (combat, crafting, gathering, training, etc) and we can currently do that.

Yes they need a better new player experience and that is planned as far as I know. Be it videos, in-game tutorial, and whatever hand holding is necessary for the basics to sink in for new people. Problem is they have an unfinished game with missing features, broken builds, and few people. None of which I hope represents the finished product.

Without wasting a bunch of resources making a few more welcome to test, don''t see them doing much now. When the simple solution already exists, be social in a social game.

If someone is truly interested in spending more then a fleeting moment in a alpha/beta for such a product, they need to put their big kid pants on and figure it out. At this point there seems to be just as many new and old fans so it must not be impossible to come in now and figure it out.

My hope is we see Newbie Campaigns where there are larger safe zones, maybe free gear, no imports/exports, and some sort of restrictions in place so that new players have a chance to not only dip their toes but wade on in without fear of some meanie vet spoiling their fun (cause they love to). Also with Dregs eventually coming online, this might separate the more organized from those more suited for Factions. Log in and have potentially hundreds of friends. Still requires people to be social and not attempt to play it like every other MMO that is really just a single player game that has others in it. 

My guess is EVE in "pre-alpha" wasn't the same game at launch nor today. These things time take. Despite some wanting to experience it, clearly it isn't for them just yet.

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2 hours ago, RhapsodyDownpour said:

Well sorry, this isn't a "game" yet. 

Yet you expect it to be? If you set unrealistic expectations despite what the devs and people that have been around for years say, time to rethink the issue.

I strongly dislike mindless grinding and backed this game specifically for less grind and a lot of entertaining PVP. However, I also accept that it isn't just log in, grab gear, murder, log out. I'd enjoy map making or one of the other roles they've said they want to add, while of course doing the pew pew. This is supposed to be some form of MMO. MMOs, RPGs, and competitive gaming in general are all about grinding one thing or another. Or if not, they are just endless pointless matches. 

I don't totally agree with their testing method/model, but is what it is and if they get the data they need to further develop the game to come, so be it.

If you are personally finding you are grinding every little thing yourself, to reach whatever point you believe is PVP ready, you might be doing it wrong. As in not how the devs intended.

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On 21/01/2019 at 11:44 PM, mandalore said:

All of that’s reasonable for an mmo with a complex crafting system but that’s not what they want.  They want a moba.  They didn’t do their research about what Blair (the lead custard dev) is famous for making: Complex crafting systems.  They hired Ralph’s koster to help him make it (another developer who makes complicated crafting systems).  You’ve come to the wrong game if you want something else people and shame on you for not doing your research about who’s making the game.  

I backed the game at the first kickstarter and i was sold on this video

 at no point in this video does it talk about craftfall they sold the kickstarters a pvp game with destruction and dying worlds...not grind rocks and trees...

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2 hours ago, squarll said:

I backed the game at the first kickstarter and i was sold on this video

 at no point in this video does it talk about craftfall they sold the kickstarters a pvp game with destruction and dying worlds...not grind rocks and trees...

Thomas Blair is the lead developer, he makes complicated crafting systems.  He’s been the lead dev since KS.  I don’t know why your surprised, I also don’t know why people get offended when they realize CF might not be the game for them.  There’s a dozen other MMO’s tailored for more mainstream players, there’s moba’s that skip all the progression and let you hop into insta pvp whenever you want, there’s even battle royales that let you fight 59 other people for dominance; why does CF have to be any of those games?  Let CF be CF and if you don’t like it don’t play it; there’s other games for you. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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21 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Thomas Blair is the lead developer, he makes complicated crafting systems.  He’s been the lead dev since KS.  I don’t know why your surprised, I also don’t know why people get offended when they realize CF might not be the game for them.  There’s a dozen other MMO’s tailored for more mainstream players, there’s moba’s that skip all the progression and let you hop into insta pvp whenever you want, there’s even battle royales that let you fight 59 other people for dominance; why does CF have to be any of those games?  Let CF be CF and if you don’t like it don’t play it; there’s other games for you. 

This is not bad advice, in fact I am a super strong believer in this ideal and way of approaching games. If a game is not for you, to walk away and find another game. I abide by this belief in every game I have ever played, but given this is Pre-Alpha right now, I think there is still room for suggestions and direction change, as I am under the illusion that the game is still semi-solid state at this point, but once it goes launch, I will most assuredly either take or leave it by what it is, without another post on the forums.


But some people want this game to be a smashing success and in it's current format, it looks like it is set up to  do little more then end up dying to a super small nitche' group, and I get the vibe that is not what a lot of these posters want, in fact.. I don't even think that is what the Dev's want.

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On 1/20/2019 at 5:25 PM, squarll said:

Ok here we go...

So i login and i want to do some pvp

That was your mistake. Don't come in with unrealistic expectations and you're less likely to be disappointed.

You're testing an MMORPG, not a matchmaking and instanced PVP game.

You're on a pre-alpha test build, not an early-access game.

If you understand those key concepts, I think you'll be better positioned to enjoy what currently exists and to provide more valuable feedback.

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3 hours ago, squarll said:

I backed the game at the first kickstarter and i was sold on this video

at no point in this video does it talk about craftfall they sold the kickstarters a pvp game with destruction and dying worlds...not grind rocks and trees...

1:07 "Crowfall is a mix of an MMORPG and a strategy game."

To me, that sounds like a whole lot of building up before you think about tearing down. Risk meets EO.

Edited by VaMei

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4 hours ago, squarll said:

I backed the game at the first kickstarter and i was sold on this video

Is that the only source of information you relied on? They did talk about their fancy plans for crafting before the KS.


IhhQKY6.gif

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2 hours ago, Ungood said:

But some people want this game to be a smashing success and in it's current format, it looks like it is set up to  do little more then end up dying to a super small nitche' group, and I get the vibe that is not what a lot of these posters want, in fact.. I don't even think that is what the Dev's want.

Games die from game-breaking bugs, the developers forcing changes that fix things that aren't broken, and excessive cash grabs. They don't die from being niche. It was stated from the beginning this would be a niche game. So not sure why people keep saying that like it's a negative. 

Wow was an outlier in the extreme. And their numbers are no where near the game of yesteryear. We backed this game specifically to not have a wow clone beholdened to CFOs and development that is about money and not being a good game. 

Edited by Navystylz

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42 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

Games die from game-breaking bugs, the developers forcing changes that fix things that aren't broken, and excessive cash grabs. They don't die from being niche.

Sure they do, happens all the time.

They simply do not pill in the population needed to survive and they close down. There is a huge list of MMO's that have died for various reasons, and simply not having enough interest or lacking any kind of retaining traits (IE: Too Niche) is in fact one of them.

Here is a list of some of the games that died in 2018.

https://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/18-mmos-shut-down-in-2018-so-far/

You can see a few were shut down, like Paragon, and Cabal 2 and Perpetuum , where the developer cited simply "Lack of interest", where Perpetuum directly said "They always knew it would be a niche game, it never really took off". So.. yah.. some games do shut down simply because they are in fact too niche. Now, sure, bugs and cash grab are direct changes often are the causes for many games to die, totally agree with you, but, yes, being too niche is also a reason as well.

Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone believed otherwise.

and again, I am not saying this will happen with Crowfall, but I am saying that I think the people making suggestions are worried that it might and are just trying to prevent that and because of that, trying to shout them down or silence their dissent is never a good response.

After all, we all paid to be here, we all paid to back this game.

Quote

Wow was an outlier in the extreme. 

No it wasn't, it was built by Devs from EQ, that for the most part openly agreed with the many requests of the EQ community to improve the game, and were shouted down like you are trying to do to others to silence their dissent. Hence the iconic quote by Smedly that gamers don't know what they want, that came back to bite him big time. 

In fact many of WoW's  Devs were EQ players and sided with the gamers that wanted a better game, and the inside jokes abound due to it.

Edited by Ungood

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3 hours ago, Ungood said:

But some people want this game to be a smashing success and in it's current format, it looks like it is set up to  do little more then end up dying to a super small nitche' group, and I get the vibe that is not what a lot of these posters want, in fact.. I don't even think that is what the Dev's want.

Everybody want's the game to be a successful game.  I might argue some of us more than others but that's irrelevant to the point.  This game checks off all the boxes for a game I want.  It IS a niche game, they devs have said it multiple times in videos and posts that not everybody will like Cf and they aren't making a game for the masses.  They have a long road ahead of them.  They have to make winning mean something but mitigate losing so people continue to play after they have lost everything.  That's not going to be easy.  Changing the game to be something it's not though is a bad solution too.  CF is a group siege game where logistics, military might, economics, subterfuge and politics all way in.  If you can't win one way, I suggest you find another way to win.  If none of those appeal to you then, and I hate saying it 5 times a day, maybe Cf isn't for you.  Factions will be less extreme, the dregs is going to be a poorly made socks show of human betrayal and shenanigans; I can't wait.  Crafting will be come less extreme as the game grows and they expand on systems (crafting is still in its 1st version).  Harvesting has already been dialed down and I expect more.  NPE will eventually be added.  The systems people want are coming but they aren't going to be here tomorrow or the day after. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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3 hours ago, mandalore said:

Thomas Blair is the lead developer, he makes complicated crafting systems.  He’s been the lead dev since KS.  I don’t know why your surprised, I also don’t know why people get offended when they realize CF might not be the game for them.  There’s a dozen other MMO’s tailored for more mainstream players, there’s moba’s that skip all the progression and let you hop into insta pvp whenever you want, there’s even battle royales that let you fight 59 other people for dominance; why does CF have to be any of those games?  Let CF be CF and if you don’t like it don’t play it; there’s other games for you. 

I came back to Crowfall in late december as there was a bit of hype for this 5.8 pvp campaign,  I am fully aware of what other games are out there, I am also ready at any point to just walk away from this game...I put down $60 in 2015 knowing that i might just wash my hands of it or this game might never get released.

I would still like this game to be a success however

Anyway you enjoy it, I will check back in another 6 months.

 

 

 

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Trove does look interesting, and I'll probably give it a spin, but hardly the character depth of CF in regards to options

I can see why you have the "ready to go" and "have everything at the start" mentality if that's what you were thinking. Not sure how you got the impression that CF was ever going in that direction with the passive training taking years to fully fill out for an account like EvE. 

Very cartoony/lego feel, and from my first comb through the about pages, 12 classes each with three locked powers.  Playable on Xbox and PS4, and it looks like it was designed for those types of controllers.  They appear to be very much focused on PvE theme park adventures with your friends where you can build lego castles, and not a throne war simulator of territory control. 

Pretty clearly much more casual and different type of game than CF has ever intended to be. 

Looks fun though, just a different kind of fun.

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4 hours ago, Ungood said:

This is not bad advice, in fact I am a super strong believer in this ideal and way of approaching games. If a game is not for you, to walk away and find another game. I abide by this belief in every game I have ever played, but given this is Pre-Alpha right now, I think there is still room for suggestions and direction change, as I am under the illusion that the game is still semi-solid state at this point, but once it goes launch, I will most assuredly either take or leave it by what it is, without another post on the forums.


But some people want this game to be a smashing success and in it's current format, it looks like it is set up to  do little more then end up dying to a super small nitche' group, and I get the vibe that is not what a lot of these posters want, in fact.. I don't even think that is what the Dev's want.

Oh there is room for suggestions and direction change, within the scope of the greater vision.  ACE doesn't have a monopoly on ideas, and they take quite a few from the members of the forum.

They however will not turn from the greater vision, because that vision is in fact part of the "game experiment" they wanted to try and we have to assume people backed.  Can't really go and say people "really" wanted a MOBA, when what they put money into was a "Throne War Simulator".  If ACE wanted instant action and zero leveling, they could have polished hunger dome and just released that, but that would not have been the greater crow fall vision, but they have left that open as an option for some campaign worlds.

They may circle back at some point in the future, and have some worlds that cater to the instant action audience with the same gold vendors, nearly instant leveling to 30 with free gold, and extremely limited or zero exports, (all of which can be found currently on the test server), but first they have to finish the big picture and see how that plays out. 

That may mean some unpleasant to some mechanics are in play (massive amounts of harvesting), while the support systems like player supported EK trade centers and new user experience improvements come into play. 

So don't suggest massive vision changes, because that simply won't get any traction at all.

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15 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Oh there is room for suggestions and direction change, within the scope of the greater vision.  ACE doesn't have a monopoly on ideas, and they take quite a few from the members of the forum.

They however will not turn from the greater vision, because that vision is in fact part of the "game experiment" they wanted to try and we have to assume people backed.  Can't really go and say people "really" wanted a MOBA, when what they put money into was a "Throne War Simulator".  If ACE wanted instant action and zero leveling, they could have polished hunger dome and just released that, but that would not have been the greater crow fall vision, but they have left that open as an option for some campaign worlds.

They may circle back at some point in the future, and have some worlds that cater to the instant action audience with the same gold vendors, nearly instant leveling to 30 with free gold, and extremely limited or zero exports, (all of which can be found currently on the test server), but first they have to finish the big picture and see how that plays out. 

That may mean some unpleasant to some mechanics are in play (massive amounts of harvesting), while the support systems like player supported EK trade centers and new user experience improvements come into play. 

So don't suggest massive vision changes, because that simply won't get any traction at all.

AoC literally did this <_<

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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4 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Art of Conquest?  Sorry, so many different things can hold the AoC acronym.

Ashes of Creation beat Cf's KS record for highest backed game and then took they money for an RPG and have instead released a BR while the rpg is on hold. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Ahhh.

That sounds like they went with the "try to make money while in dev" by putting polish on "Apocalypse" with the intent of heading in the MMO build direction. Hard to say if people will burn out of playing it in MOBA/Battle royal style before the MMO ever hits the door.

 

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