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Why should i bother to play in alpha?

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48 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Trove does look interesting, and I'll probably give it a spin, but hardly the character depth of CF in regards to options

I can see why you have the "ready to go" and "have everything at the start" mentality if that's what you were thinking. Not sure how you got the impression that CF was ever going in that direction with the passive training taking years to fully fill out for an account like EvE. 

Very cartoony/lego feel, and from my first comb through the about pages, 12 classes each with three locked powers.  Playable on Xbox and PS4, and it looks like it was designed for those types of controllers.  They appear to be very much focused on PvE theme park adventures with your friends where you can build lego castles, and not a throne war simulator of territory control. 

Pretty clearly much more casual and different type of game than CF has ever intended to be. 

Looks fun though, just a different kind of fun.

Trove is a Voxel Graphic MMO, that is mainly PvE, I was expecting Crowfall to provide the World Building/Destroying of Trove with the RvR of DAoC. Because if you look at a lot of their advertisements that is what it comes across as, This assumption was further augmented by the Clayamtion style graphics making this game appear similar to (but better than) Boundless.

One of my main motives to back this game is while Trove is a great game, and can be as deep or shallow as a player makes it,  my core group could not get past the Voxel graphics, when I pitched this to them, they were receptive because they also liked the WvW/RvR of other games like GW2, so I walked into this game  this game thinking I would get a best of both worlds type of deal.. so far.. I have been vastly let down. 

I admit.. a sizable portion of that let down was due to my own expectations and has nothing to do with the efforts of the Artcraft to make a game.

I understand that Balance will be getting a work over soon.. so that will be addressed before launch, a worry on that front is simply that I have seen games struggle for years trying to balance their game out and failing hard, which, in a PvP, I've said this before, and I'll say it again, they live and die on their balance. 

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Just now, Ungood said:

Trove is a Voxel Graphic MMO, that is mainly PvE, I was expecting Crowfall to provide the World Building/Destroying of Trove with the RvR of DAoC. Because if you look at a lot of their advertisements that is what it comes across as, This assumption was further augmented by the Clayamtion style graphics making this game appear similar to (but better than) Boundless.

One of my main motives to back this game is while Trove is a great game, and can be as deep or shallow as a player makes it,  my core group could not get past the Voxel graphics, when I pitched this to them, they were receptive because they also liked the WvW/RvR of other games like GW2, so I walked into this game  this game thinking I would get a best of both worlds type of deal.. so far.. I have been vastly let down. 

I admit.. a sizable portion of that let down was due to my own expectations and has nothing to do with the efforts of the Artcraft to make a game.

I understand that Balance will be getting a work over soon.. so that will be addressed before launch, a worry on that front is simply that I have seen games struggle for years trying to balance their game out and failing hard, which, in a PvP, I've said this before, and I'll say it again, they live and die on their balance. 

Cf was orginally going to use voxels, I can't imagine them ever working in a large scale environment with hundreds or thousands of people. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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11 minutes ago, Ungood said:

Trove is a Voxel Graphic MMO, that is mainly PvE, I was expecting Crowfall to provide the World Building/Destroying of Trove with the RvR of DAoC. Because if you look at a lot of their advertisements that is what it comes across as, This assumption was further augmented by the Clayamtion style graphics making this game appear similar to (but better than) Boundless.

One of my main motives to back this game is while Trove is a great game, and can be as deep or shallow as a player makes it,  my core group could not get past the Voxel graphics, when I pitched this to them, they were receptive because they also liked the WvW/RvR of other games like GW2, so I walked into this game  this game thinking I would get a best of both worlds type of deal.. so far.. I have been vastly let down. 

I admit.. a sizable portion of that let down was due to my own expectations and has nothing to do with the efforts of the Artcraft to make a game.

I understand that Balance will be getting a work over soon.. so that will be addressed before launch, a worry on that front is simply that I have seen games struggle for years trying to balance their game out and failing hard, which, in a PvP, I've said this before, and I'll say it again, they live and die on their balance. 

I think your just here too early given the expectations.

Possibly because of the 5.8 hype and "first sanctioned campaign" talk and possibly wanting first sanctioned campaign winner bragging rights.

This game has soo many things still left to be added in, THEN all the polish. Sometimes the "quick fix" to make the game fun NOW, or a dramatic change in direction, is the absolute worst thing to do if you have a longer vision.  

I personally don't recommend this stage of testing to anyone I don't KNOW will find fun at this current unpolished phase of development. 

The real answer to the OP's question is, "You shouldn't even try if you don't enjoy it now".  

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I play the alpha to be a part of a game I enjoy, I play the alpha to be a part of a pretty cool community, I play the alpha to test all the new things that come along every new update, I play the alpha cause even in its alpha state I have more fun then playing a launched game, I play the alpha cause alpha is life! I also play the alpha so when the game does launch, I will be one of the ones that will know the ins and outs of the game and will make an impact on the campaign I play from the start and not be a fresh player complaining about everything I dont like, because I played the alpha and took part in forming the alpha that I choose to play.

EDIT - in the end if you play the alpha you helped form a game that you enjoy, or don't it will continue on with or without 

Edited by PAINDOTCOM

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2 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I think your just here too early given the expectations.

No.. I don't.

2 hours ago, mandalore said:

Cf was orginally going to use voxels, I can't imagine them ever working in a large scale environment with hundreds or thousands of people. 

I think they simply just made a massive change their original vision.

As what I was expecting would have been a core part of the game, a foundation block (pun intended) of the whole world map system.

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10 hours ago, Ungood said:

They simply do not pill in the population needed to survive and they close down.

and again, I am not saying this will happen with Crowfall, but I am saying that I think the people making suggestions are worried that it might and are just trying to prevent that and because of that, trying to shout them down or silence their dissent is never a good response.

Unless you have a crystal ball, there is no way to know what will bring in players or won't. Even having a great idea doesn't mean devs can magically make it reality. Nothing we suggest will guarantee or prevent anything from happening. Some of those games listed were trying to ride the coattails of other and didn't succeed. Plenty of MMOs have tried to ride the wave and not made it. Believe this is why many of us are looking forward to things like Crowfall and Camelot Unchained. Familiar but not just the same old thing.

What I want and what devs can do or what other players would want aren't all aligned.

We all have a lot of great ideas, but ACE is doing the real work and they get final say. Ultimately ACE is taking the risk and we are just here for the ride. If they believe their concept will pull in enough players to keep them paid, I'm willing to see it through. I still throw my ideas out there just to get them out of my head, but I don't expect ACE to care.

Almost 4 years in, very few new suggestions are being made. What you've suggested has been brought up in some way multiple times. At least you didn't say "It should be like Sword Art Online." Always get a kick out of that one.

8 hours ago, Ungood said:

I understand that Balance will be getting a work over soon.. so that will be addressed before launch, a worry on that front is simply that I have seen games struggle for years trying to balance their game out and failing hard, which, in a PvP, I've said this before, and I'll say it again, they live and die on their balance. 

What fantasy PVP game has achieved balance? I don't know of one. What does balanced even mean? There are always issues and devs are always busy. Just the nature of the genre. If a game is still enjoyable as a whole despite issues here and there, it isn't a failure to me. A MMO by design can't be balanced, especially one like Crowfall where they want layer upon layer of player decision to impact things. It won't be fair and that is intended. 

5 hours ago, Ungood said:

I think they simply just made a massive change their original vision.

Seems like they planned to use Voxel Farm to make structure destruction and siege more pretty, not really a loss of content or features. Don't believe they planned for free form building voxel by voxel. Not really a massive change or at least not one that changed how the game will be played. Not sure if they use Voxel Farm at all at this point, but didn't see anything from the original pitch that compared to Trove or other voxel like games.

They also changed to a more traditional race/class split from archetypes, added vessels, and training has gone through a few versions. Still the game should play out pretty much the same as originally presented.

Sucks that things changed, especially for those that backed on KS for a lot hoping for exactly what was presented, but that is an unrealistic expectation in game development. Especially when much of it was rather vague.

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Funny to read people crying about crafting/grinding and citing old games like DAOC, UO.

DAOC  (at launch) was a damn PVE grind fest before even thinking about going into pvp.

UO was a training dummy grind before even thinking going out the city

Even Shadowbane was a PVE afk grinding game before going into pvp.

I don't know any MMO games focused on PvP were you wouldn't have a boring experience before enjoying the PVP.

If you want pvp right away go into MOBA style or FPS like CS.

 

 


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Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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14 hours ago, Ungood said:

No it wasn't, it was built by Devs from EQ, that for the most part openly agreed with the many requests of the EQ community to improve the game, and were shouted down like you are trying to do to others to silence their dissent. Hence the iconic quote by Smedly that gamers don't know what they want, that came back to bite him big time. 

You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about. I meant the numbers. So, yes, it very much was an outlier in MMOs for it's sub numbers.

No one is trying to silence dissent. Were telling people this game was backed under a specific type of vision and trying to call for sweeping changes outside of what we backed, before game is even released isn't gonna go down well. Some people have been asking for things that would completely change the scope of this game into something else. If you see no issue with that while game is in development to even get to a release status, well I can't help you there. Not like these ideas even have any backing, which is why people keep saying this might not be the game for them. 

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4 hours ago, Navystylz said:

You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about. I meant the numbers. So, yes, it very much was an outlier in MMOs for it's sub numbers.

If you were talking about it's peak of 12 million subs, I don't think anyone is trying to make the next WoW.. I think they are all more along the lines of just trying to prevent the next Warhammer Age of Reckoning. 

 

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Perhaps we would all be better served, and our expectations managed, if the Devs were more explicit about what we're testing in each session.

"This campaign we want to see if the harvesting is overtuned."  Testers go out and hammer nodes and Devs collect data on how much loot is coming out each season and if there's some broken harvesting combos.  Feedback from players regarding this is organized and specific.

"Now that we've gotten some harvesting data.  We're looking at the crafting systems based on the resource tuning.  See what kind of gear you can turn out during this session."  It's a craft-off with feedback on the crafting systems and RNG severity.  Feedback from players regarding this is organized and specific.

"This campaign is about combat exploits.  Now that you have provided the harvesting and crafting data sets, have at it!"  No one is surprised that it's a murder-fest.  Feedback from players regarding this is organized and specific.

Currently, a vague "test the game" with the overlapping variables seems to give unfocused feedback ("this sucks/this is fun") and a lot of disappointment.  Players working diligently to test the combat mechanics murdering the players testing the harvesting mechanics prevents anyone from testing the crafting.  Nobody is wrong.  Everyone is right.  They're all just pulling in different directions.  As you women/men of SCIENCE! know, too many variables makes the data lose meaning.

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22 minutes ago, ClockworkWetwork said:

Perhaps we would all be better served, and our expectations managed, if the Devs were more explicit about what we're testing in each session.

"This campaign we want to see if the harvesting is overtuned."  Testers go out and hammer nodes and Devs collect data on how much loot is coming out each season and if there's some broken harvesting combos.  Feedback from players regarding this is organized and specific.

"Now that we've gotten some harvesting data.  We're looking at the crafting systems based on the resource tuning.  See what kind of gear you can turn out during this session."  It's a craft-off with feedback on the crafting systems and RNG severity.  Feedback from players regarding this is organized and specific.

"This campaign is about combat exploits.  Now that you have provided the harvesting and crafting data sets, have at it!"  No one is surprised that it's a murder-fest.  Feedback from players regarding this is organized and specific.

Currently, a vague "test the game" with the overlapping variables seems to give unfocused feedback ("this sucks/this is fun") and a lot of disappointment.  Players working diligently to test the combat mechanics murdering the players testing the harvesting mechanics prevents anyone from testing the crafting.  Nobody is wrong.  Everyone is right.  They're all just pulling in different directions.  As you women/men of SCIENCE! know, too many variables makes the data lose meaning.

They do ask for specific focus on testing.

Balance level focus might come later, but right now the focus is "Hey how come it looks like a slide show when we are in groups" and "will the changes to the capture points kill off uncle bob".

Systems come first, then the specific numbers.  Some of the balancing is just to tide us over, or to show they care about gross imbalances, but mostly the focus is still on new systems.  Any balance changes we get, are basically a bonus. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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8 hours ago, Gorwald said:

Funny to read people crying about crafting/grinding and citing old games like DAOC, UO.

DAOC  (at launch) was a damn PVE grind fest before even thinking about going into pvp.

DAoC also had massive PvE only zones where you could work crafting and level your character in fun and fraction specific environments.. which is really missing from this game.

8 hours ago, Gorwald said:

If you want pvp right away go into MOBA style or FPS like CS.

This is a legit concern of mine, that a large volume of people will come here thinking this will be like a massive RvR set up, like a massive upgrade to their MOBA's or BR games, see what they actually have here, and swiftly go back to playing their MOBA's, BR's and other PvP games.

I think this is what a lot of people are trying to prevent from happening with their suggestions.

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29 minutes ago, Ungood said:

This is a legit concern of mine, that a large volume of people will come here thinking this will be like a massive RvR set up, like a massive upgrade to their MOBA's or BR games, see what they actually have here, and swiftly go back to playing their MOBA's, BR's and other PvP games.

Anyone that thinks this is supposed to be a massive MOBA hasn't looked at it very closely.  It has never been marketed as that type of game. It's always been an MMORPG that can be won and actually ends.

If someone comes to CF expecting instant endgame combat and perfect balance between classes in every situation, and they don't like what they find here, they should go to a game that they like; I say that without malice and wish them well.

No game can be everything for everyone, and many game play formats are mutually exclusive. If ACE tries to change CF into the style of game that player wants, all they'll do is turn CF into a failed clone of games people are already playing, while leaving players that do want to play the game that CF already is (or is becoming) in the cold. Tyrant and Blair have been dragged kicking & screaming down that road before. I strongly suspect they will not willingly allow it to happen again.

Edited by VaMei

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3 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

They do ask for specific focus on testing.

Balance level focus might come later, but right now the focus is "Hey how come it looks like a slide show when we are in groups" and "will the changes to the capture points kill off uncle bob".

Systems come first, then the specific numbers.  Some of the balancing is just to tide us over, or to show they care about gross imbalances, but mostly the focus is still on new systems.  Any balance changes we get, are basically a bonus. 

Perfect, thank you for the info!  I'll check out the specific testing requests as they publish them now that I know that exists.  I'll help point other players there as well.  Cheers!

The Uncle Bob issue is passive training and item retention.  Accounts that have been gathering XP and materials for 5 weeks are insurmountably ahead of new accounts.

The barrier is hit at login, far before you can reach a capture point.  Not only is a barrier to play (not that we are entitled to play in pre-alpha, we're testers), but a barrier to move about the world and test.  I look forward to standardization/wipes to open the field for more testers so we can gather more data.

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9 hours ago, VaMei said:

If someone comes to CF expecting instant endgame combat and perfect balance between classes in every situation, and they don't like what they find here, they should go to a game that they like; I say that without malice and wish them well

Don't worry, they will and do so gladly, and for good measure they will inform anyone and everyone else expecting the same to stay away.

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11 hours ago, VaMei said:

If someone comes to CF expecting instant endgame combat and perfect balance between classes in every situation, and they don't like what they find here, they should go to a game that they like; I say that without malice and wish them well.

Your correct about the balance issue, since its pretty much impossible to have perfect balance. To be fair, the devs did pretty much hype no grinding and leveling. Players expecting that have a valid point. 

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10 hours ago, Ungood said:

Don't worry, they will and do so gladly, and for good measure they will inform anyone and everyone else expecting the same to stay away.

The alternative is to change the game into something that it is not and was not supposed to be, pissing off the current players, who will inform anyone and everyone else expecting the same to stay away.

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8 hours ago, mystafyi said:

Your correct about the balance issue, since its pretty much impossible to have perfect balance. To be fair, the devs did pretty much hype no grinding and leveling. Players expecting that have a valid point. 

I'll grant you the no leveling. That's a new twist that was not supposed to be part of the game. In the MMOs I've played, the leveling period is considered an extension of the new player experience, a period to learn how to use your abilities. If we have campaigns that are geared toward new players as a training ground then I don't know that it's needed, but not having it would leave the skill trees in an awkward place. The current implementation of leveling strongly favors veteran players in established guilds. If you are part of an organized group, leveling is ridiculously easy. Less than 12 hours off a full vessel & item wipe, there are level 30s running around in full advanced gear. If you are new to the game, don't know how to quickly level and gear up and have no passive skills, you will be left far behind.

OTOH, grinding for gear is the hallmark of MMORPGs. Whether gear comes from crafting farmed resources, grinding mobs, or running dungeon crawls, grinding for gear progression is the end game. Where CF differs is that you use your superior gear to actually win a long term fight.

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22 hours ago, ClockworkWetwork said:

Accounts that have been gathering XP and materials for 5 weeks are insurmountably ahead of new accounts.

You realize all the materials that people gathered for 5 weeks were just wiped yesterday, right?


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