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Audin

Resource material upgrade

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Seems to me that Common (white) resource material is pretty useless once you have progressed through the game. Is there any thoughts on having ways to upgrade inferior material to the next rarity?

Example:  

30 common granite = 1 Uncommon granite 

 

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Not really a good idea. It has too many possible problems.

Bands are supposed to be limited to certain qualities.  If your in a blue or worse band, upgrades from blue to purple would a vector to bypass those limitations that ACE has to worry about and code to protect against.

When factories come in, BP's are going to be build based on a luck quality upgrade on the combines.  So you will get green metal bars from white-white-green, and be able to crank out copies from the original materials, so that will be the effective upgrade path.

 

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5 minutes ago, Audin said:

Seems to me that Common (white) resource material is pretty useless once you have progressed through the game. Is there any thoughts on having ways to upgrade inferior material to the next rarity?

Example:  

30 common granite = 1 Uncommon granite 

 

Currently. I'm assuming there will be "resource dumps" in the game to force out high quantities of white-tier mats in rulesets such as the Dregs where you need to craft your own keeps, forts, buildings, etc. Plus more to maintain them. Plus more to repair them. You already see some of this with things like siege weapons.

I think a default way of trading up would be potentially damaging to the economy concept they've laid out. Specialization is meant to force player interaction. If you open up avenues where say I don't need to find myself an expert Logger in order to get the high-quality lumber I need as a specialized Stone Mason, you're going to have fewer player interactions because people *will* just grind it out in some cases.

If they did put in some kind of default "destroy huge quantities of white-quality materials to make them useful" mechanic, then I'd hope they would aim for something like grinding them into a more neutral resource like dust/embers.

Edited by Darguth

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Just now, Darguth said:

Currently. I'm assuming there will be "resource dumps" in the game to force out high quantities of white-tier mats in rulesets such as the Dregs where you need to craft your own keeps, forts, buildings, etc. You already see some of this with things like siege weapons.

I think a default way of trading up would be potentially damaging to the economy concept they've laid out. Specialization is meant to force player interaction. If you open up avenues where say I don't need to find myself an expert Logger in order to get the high-quality lumber I need as a specialized Stone Mason, you're going to have fewer player interactions because people *will* just grind it out in some cases.

If they did put in some kind of default "destroy huge quantities of white-quality materials to make them useful" mechanic, then I'd hope they would aim for something like grinding them into a more neutral resource like dust/embers.

They do.  It's called sacrifice.  Make things with those mats to make them more valuable sacrifices.

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The amount of time that someone would have to grind using an upgrade path would be huge. An expert harvester would definitely be worth the price vs a players time of investment to grind.  But yes if I could grind them into dust I'd be all for that. Most of the common I accrue are from hit nodes in my attempt to collect more dust.  I was just looking at my inventory and finding white material pointless.  So an inefficient dump would be something nice to have.  

 

When I say progressed enough, I mean I know longer need to sacrifice for experience. 

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5 minutes ago, Audin said:

The amount of time that someone would have to grind using an upgrade path would be huge. An expert harvester would definitely be worth the price vs a players time of investment to grind.  But yes if I could grind them into dust I'd be all for that. Most of the common I accrue are from hit nodes in my attempt to collect more dust.  I was just looking at my inventory and finding white material pointless.  So an inefficient dump would be something nice to have.  

 

When I say progressed enough, I mean I know longer need to sacrifice for experience. 

That's supposed to be covered by the player economy in the future.  Other people still need to sacrifice to level. 

Grind into dust is a much better idea than compress to improve quality though.  Dust is one of those things you would probably spend as much as you have of it doing re-rolls, so I would support that one.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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10 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

They do.  It's called sacrifice.  Make things with those mats to make them more valuable sacrifices.

Except that's going to be saturated *fairly* quickly. You don't go level up a new vessel all that frequently.

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2 minutes ago, Darguth said:

Except that's going to be saturated *fairly* quickly. You don't go level up a new vessel all that frequently.

You have never had to level up a purple have you? 

Takes 90k XP, (as opposed to 17.5k for a white) AND they have fixed the arches issue in 5.8.1, and will close any similar loopholes in the future.

I think you are underestimating just how many people enjoy the "try a new build" gameplay.  Right now we have the ability to swap disciplines at will, in the future, you won't be able to.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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26 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

You have never had to level up a purple have you? 

Takes 90k XP, (as opposed to 17.5k for a white) AND they have fixed the arches issue in 5.8.1, and will close any similar loopholes in the future.

I think you are underestimating just how many people enjoy the "try a new build" gameplay.  Right now we have the ability to swap disciplines at will, in the future, you won't be able to.

 

Making the cap of a finite market higher doesn't make it less finite. But, yes, perhaps swapping builds will keep it rolling. Time will tell.

Edited by Darguth

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Just now, Darguth said:

 

Making the cap of a finite market higher doesn't make it less finite.

My point is, it is a false assumption to think of leveling as a "finite market".

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1 hour ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

My point is, it is a false assumption to think of leveling as a "finite market".

True, it's not completely finite, but there is a diminishing demand to an expanding supply issue. Which will lead to the same end result, more or less, if it was a finite market. Meaning that market saturation will absolutely happen. As people level out their main vessels the recurrence of needing to sacrifice to level vessels becomes less frequent. Meanwhile passive skill training marches on and people get better gathering gear, etc. producing more supply of white mats.

Sacrificing is definitely part of the solution. I don't think it solves it by itself though.

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1 minute ago, Darguth said:

True, it's not completely finite, but there is a diminishing demand to an expanding supply issue. Which will lead to the same end result, more or less, if it was a finite market. Meaning that market saturation will absolutely happen. As people level out their main vessels the recurrence of needing to sacrifice to level vessels becomes less frequent. Meanwhile passive skill training marches on and people get better gathering gear, etc. producing more supply of white mats.

Sacrificing is definitely part of the solution. I don't think it solves it by itself though.

Possibly not.  

There is also the crafting of building's for building EK's.  Go check out how many resources are required for parcels and structures in GeoMancy.  You may not want em, but I'm pretty sure there will be a desire for EK lego once ACE stop wiping items. It's so much work now that is just going to get wiped, and ACE has given out some spiffy test buildings, so nobody is really messing with that side of things yet.

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2 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Possibly not.  

There is also the crafting of building's for building EK's.  Go check out how many resources are required for parcels and structures in GeoMancy.  You may not want em, but I'm pretty sure there will be a desire for EK lego once ACE stop wiping items. It's so much work now that is just going to get wiped, and ACE has given out some spiffy test buildings, so nobody is really messing with that side of things yet.

And presumably we will some day be crafting those structures inside Dregs campaigns, and not just in EKs.


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Ya, exactly. My hope is that's "The Plan" for bulk white resources, and it appears likely. With that I think an "upgrade" system to turn white mats into better quality mats at some ratio becomes not only unnecessary but undesirable, given all of the subsequent problems it would spawn.

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On 1/22/2019 at 1:21 PM, Audin said:

When I say progressed enough, I mean I know longer need to sacrifice for experience. 

That is a rare case...   I would say until you have a stable of legendary or epic vessels to utilize in various builds.   To say you no longer need to sacrifice and have no guild that needs them seems off in a GvG PvP game with everyone needing upgrades constantly.


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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On 1/23/2019 at 8:24 AM, Darguth said:

Ya, exactly. My hope is that's "The Plan" for bulk white resources, and it appears likely. With that I think an "upgrade" system to turn white mats into better quality mats at some ratio becomes not only unnecessary but undesirable, given all of the subsequent problems it would spawn.

Nope...   it is not...   as stated before you can use white mixed with green to get better results...   if you aren't bootstrapping green armor from just green leather padding, buckles, rivets, you are not utilizing the bootstrap right...   with blueprinting and factories I will use white and get green results form bars to componants to final assembly.    Plus using for building in the dregs as also mentioned.   You will never transmute raw materials to a higher quality however, that is game breaking.


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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On 1/22/2019 at 3:15 PM, Darguth said:

Currently. I'm assuming there will be "resource dumps" in the game to force out high quantities of white-tier mats in rulesets such as the Dregs where you need to craft your own keeps, forts, buildings, etc. Plus more to maintain them. Plus more to repair them. You already see some of this with things like siege weapons.

I think a default way of trading up would be potentially damaging to the economy concept they've laid out. Specialization is meant to force player interaction. If you open up avenues where say I don't need to find myself an expert Logger in order to get the high-quality lumber I need as a specialized Stone Mason, you're going to have fewer player interactions because people *will* just grind it out in some cases.

If they did put in some kind of default "destroy huge quantities of white-quality materials to make them useful" mechanic, then I'd hope they would aim for something like grinding them into a more neutral resource like dust/embers.

Your logic destroys my arguement for farming basic wood and turning it into legendaries. You make me haz a sads. :(

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On 1/22/2019 at 5:25 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

Possibly not.  

There is also the crafting of building's for building EK's.  Go check out how many resources are required for parcels and structures in GeoMancy.  You may not want em, but I'm pretty sure there will be a desire for EK lego once ACE stop wiping items. It's so much work now that is just going to get wiped, and ACE has given out some spiffy test buildings, so nobody is really messing with that side of things yet.

I am planning on that being my bread and butter.

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