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mandalore

Is in gaming spying an exploit?

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17 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

As long as it applied to everyone, and was an impersonal mechanic, I would have no problem with it.  For example, if the gate area acted like the starvation effect of being close to a hunger shard in the new player zone, and fatal starvation was possible, then it would apply to all without all that "he said, she said" nonsense. 

But those types of mechanics are very very hard to design without negatively changing the very nature of factions, that you are safe from other players in your faction hurting you, and almost certainly a poor use for developer time because of the cat/mouse nature of the whole process.  Much better to just get the Dregs finished, (still planned before release), and let people use that option.  

I bet you won't see much of this type of spying in the faction campaigns once dregs open up anyway, simply because those dedicated enough to have multiple accounts, will be those dedicated enough to play them and keep away from the factions for the most part. 

The first part's actually not a bad idea, but you're right... Why add additional objectives to the list... 

I guess I will just wait for Dregs lol. 

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Who cares, it's Faction, as soon as Dregs comes online Faction will be for all the people who complain in general chat about getting ganked by assassins and not knowing what to do after they reach level 10 on a vessel. If Faction worlds aren't mostly dead and lame, I'd be really surprised.

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No way to completely remove it from faction rulesets - the goal should be to design systems so that low-effort "parking an alt to spy" doesn't pay off.

For example, Temples and the Free City have one platform with multiple runegates, each going to a unique location. Very easy to park an alt spy and watch to see who goes in each gate. How about changing that to many scattered runegates, each one going to multiple locations of the users choice (menu pop up)? A spy wouldn't be able to see the destination, and you would need many alt accounts to cover all the locations.

However, if someone wants to invest in a long con, active deep cover espionage then more power to them! Love those stories from EVE.

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7 minutes ago, miraluna said:

No way to completely remove it from faction rulesets - the goal should be to design systems so that low-effort "parking an alt to spy" doesn't pay off.

For example, Temples and the Free City have one platform with multiple runegates, each going to a unique location. Very easy to park an alt spy and watch to see who goes in each gate. How about changing that to many scattered runegates, each one going to multiple locations of the users choice (menu pop up)? A spy wouldn't be able to see the destination, and you would need many alt accounts to cover all the locations.

However, if someone wants to invest in a long con, active deep cover espionage then more power to them! Love those stories from EVE.

Aside from the development time needed to change the current behavior from one gate, one destination, which is probably needed for seamless EK portal to EK portal instead of the menus anyway, that would be one way to raise the bar on effort. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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I consider something bad from the point of view that needs another account (more money spent) to spy on the enemy with alt. Of course, that in a P2W game this is good, because players just to have more chance of winning spend more money (wallet warriors). I do not know exactly whether DEVs want to give a player a lead just because he spends more $$$.
I think a player who thinks that indirectly cheating using tactics based on using money to have multiple accounts is not good for the game. I'm sure the DEVs do not want a toxic game like wallet warriors wants (asiatic players like a p2w).

Edited by hamon

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1 minute ago, hamon said:

I consider something bad from the point of view that needs another account (more money spent) to spy on the enemy with alt. Of course, that in a bad game this is good, because players just to have more chance of winning spend more money (wallet warriors). I do not know exactly whether DEVs want to give a player a lead just because he spends more $$$.
I think a player who thinks that indirectly cheating using tactics based on using money to have multiple accounts is not good for the game. I'm sure the DEVs do not want a toxic game like Mandalore wants.

That’s just hurtful and not true.  The outrage at disposable income being utilized for spy alt accounts is weird.  Can you explain how it’s cheating?  

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12 minutes ago, mandalore said:

That’s just hurtful and not true.  The outrage at disposable income being utilized for spy alt accounts is weird.  Can you explain how it’s cheating?  

If you can through an extra account manipulate the outcome of a battle through information that would not be gained through your real account you are actually sabotaging your faction in the alt char, ie it is damaging the experience of other players of the faction that was spied. This is like a wintrade with alt chars. You will create one character only to lose to main char purposefully and manipulate the PVP. This is wintrade and P2W.

Edited by hamon

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6 minutes ago, hamon said:

If you can through an extra account manipulate the outcome of a battle through information that would not be gained through your real account you are actually sabotaging your faction in the alt char, ie it is damaging the experience of other players of the faction that was spied. This is like a wintrade with alt chars. You will create one character only to lose to main char purposefully and manipulate the PVP. This is wintrade.

That’s just poor OPSEC imo.  If I can win Bc I have alt in your faction and learn your secret weakness that defeats you then shame on you.  I’m not Bard, you’re not Smaug and no alt will ever equal the The Black Arrow of House Gilron, Lord of the Dale.  

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6 minutes ago, mandalore said:

That’s just poor OPSEC imo.  If I can win Bc I have alt in your faction and learn your secret weakness that defeats you then shame on you.  I’m not Bard, you’re not Smaug and no alt will ever equal the The Black Arrow of House Gilron, Lord of the Dale.  

In every PVP game in which a player creates an alt char only to purposely lose to provide wins for his main char, the player is banned by wintrade. If you support this then you are a toxic player.

Edited by hamon

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21 minutes ago, hamon said:

In every PVP game in which a player creates an alt char only to purposely lose to provide wins for his main char, the player is banned by wintrade. If you support this then you are a toxic player.

Every game?  

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4 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Every game?  

All PVP game has clear rules of banishment on players who create alt char just to lose to the main char purposefully. This is ban. You should not even ask if this is cheating. This is clear cheating to manipulate PVP. You make a fool of yourself if you do not know that this is wintrade.

Edited by hamon

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2 minutes ago, hamon said:

All PVP game has clear rules of banishment on players who create alt char just to lose to the main char purposefully. This is ban. You should not even ask if this is cheating. This is clear cheating to manipulate PVP.

In what other game could you set it up so your alt is 100% guaranteed to be on the opposite faction and in a place to spy?  This isn’t the same thing as joining a q and forcing the enemy team to be short handed in 15v14.  I’m confused about what game you’re referring to.   

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4 minutes ago, mandalore said:

In what other game could you set it up so your alt is 100% guaranteed to be on the opposite faction and in a place to spy?  This isn’t the same thing as joining a q and forcing the enemy team to be short handed in 15v14.  I’m confused about what game you’re referring to.   

W-I-N-T-R-A-D-E. Only you try to manipulate the result with alt char in enemy team and you are already doing wintrade. You do not have to win to be a wintrader, just participate in the scheme and it is already banned.

Edited by hamon

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2 minutes ago, hamon said:

W-I-N-T-R-A-D-E. Only you try to manipulate the result with alt char in enemy team and you are already doing wintrade. You do not have to win to be a wintrader, just participate in the scheme and it is already banned.

What game can you even win trade in?  You said they ban people for it.  What game??  Any proof?  I’d love to read into something about that.  

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4 minutes ago, mandalore said:

What game can you even win trade in?  You said they ban people for it.  What game??  Any proof?  I’d love to read into something about that.  

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/uxO5rERg-challenger-inting-bans-what-happened

Red post that it was supposedly a ban for wintrading and having his account piloted.

Edited by hamon

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11 minutes ago, hamon said:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/uxO5rERg-challenger-inting-bans-what-happened

Red post that it was supposedly a ban for wintrading and having his account piloted.

That’s an empty post talking about challenger players losing on purpose to boost other accounts literally throwing matching to boost another’s MMR.  That’s not even remotely the same thing as spying in factions for Cf. 

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I just had this vision of Crowfall in 2022, or whenever. You go to a runegate, and the first thing you see is dozens of characters with odd names, just loitering about, not moving, not saying anything. You go to the next zone in the campaign, and you see the same thing. The spies! They outnumber the actual players by two-, three-, no! Even four to one! Everyone has a spy account or two -- some people have many. You read the forums, and you see topic after topic about it, and there was this one event, back in the day, that people still speak about, but only in hushed whispers, something about ... "The Tarkening".

Edited by Ardrea

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