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Nervontuxis

Resets before sanctioned campaign

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Since there is no definite answer yet on import / export / wipes before sanctioned campaign, I just wanna point out that even currently (after wipe) the passive system is highly unfair towards the people who couldn't start collecting points during Christmas and the campaign will be even more flawed if you let anything be imported from current campaigns.

I would think its in everyone's interest to have the 1st sanctioned campaign FAIR. Not so that we have people with x week or even month ahead in passive training like now. Or that people farm like crazy now for materials to have the best possible gear and vessel ready for import when the sanctioned campaign starts.

Tbh, if there isn't a full wipe before the first sanctioned campaign, why would it be any dif than the current or previous or the one before that? Just that we will get prizes for winning a already rigged and unfair contest?

 

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ill be happy with just a bank wipe tbh if they do wipe the skill tree i would like to see like 10 times xp for the first month to catch back up to where we are now.

tbh though there already talks or rumors of a few large guild switching to one faction to guarantee a win in the first campaign anyway so i wouldnt expect to see a fair thing anyway, wether or not the rumors are true or not is one thing though.

Edited by veeshan

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I think it's strange because for a pre-alpha game the procedure is to redo the grind to ensure there are no bugs. Well, unfortunately this game has not adopted the grind model within the PVP environment from the beginning, so it really makes the game very bad because the PVE is repetitive.

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Oh so you may not be on the winning side of the 1st sanctioned campaign and miss out on a cosmetic thing if that. Maybe it's me, but that's not a big deal. I rather them see how the game plays out at an end game-ish level so they can adjust accordingly. Your point could be taken by anyone starting this game after release. Should we just wipe everything once a year?

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4 hours ago, Nervontuxis said:

I would think its in everyone's interest to have the 1st sanctioned campaign FAIR. Not so that we have people with x week or even month ahead in passive training like now. Or that people farm like crazy now for materials to have the best possible gear and vessel ready for import when the sanctioned campaign starts.

If you see veteran players having accumulated more passive skills and more banked resources as an unfair situation today, then the entire concept of passive training and campaign imports is unfair, and will remain unfair for the new players of tomorrow.

At what point do you see this problem going away? When should the final wipe take place? Before the 1st sanctioned campaign? At the soft launch? At the end of every campaign?

Edited by VaMei

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10 minutes ago, VaMei said:

If you see veteran players having accumulated more passive skills and more banked resources as an unfair situation today, then the entire concept of passive training and campaign imports is unfair, and will remain unfair for the new players of tomorrow.

At what point do you see this problem going away? When should the final wipe take place? Before the 1st sanctioned campaign? At the soft launch? At the end of every campaign?

 

Veteran players in guilds and organized groups are going to rollover new players anyway, even if passive skills were reset.

It simply, does, not, matter.

By far, the majority of player power comes from gear - and the veteran organized guilds will be back up to blue tier gear within days.

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I prefer to the keep the wipes to a minimum.  Only wipe when you HAVE to wipe.  Yes, this is just a testing environment, but by not wiping you give a reason for us to play more now.  If we know that we'll be able to keep gear/vessels/resources for the first sanctioned campaign, its going to cause more people to play now in order to prep for it.  The original post seems to imply that organized guilds and preparation is some how an unfair advantage.  Like VaMei said, new players will always be at a disadvantage to established players.  That's how games work.  This isn't Overwatch.

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I find these threads somewhat ironic. 

The people posting them are here NOW, and can start with the same accumulation of passive skills, and practice fighting with the rest of us. 

Players that are aware and worried because they are not even bothering to login and start up passive training, then that falls on them. Start now, find your guild now, hook into the groups that have already demonstrated they are going to be those that have a chance to win.

Besides, it's a TEAM WIN, not individual.  All teams will have vets, and all teams will have new players.  Active participation when the first "sanctioned" campaign starts will matter far more than some passive skills.  Spring will be in full force, so full harvesting pips will be in range of everyone, and every guild will recruit, and every guild will help those outside it if  possible, because as a team game, it's in their best interest to have as many players on their team geared up and productive. 

This is not a solo game, and you will not get a solo win.

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1 hour ago, DocDoom said:

 

Veteran players in guilds and organized groups are going to rollover new players anyway, even if passive skills were reset.

It simply, does, not, matter.

By far, the majority of player power comes from gear - and the veteran organized guilds will be back up to blue tier gear within days.

Well greens were already made last night so blues should be here tonight or tomorrow so this is pretty accurate. 

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2 hours ago, VaMei said:

If you see veteran players having accumulated more passive skills and more banked resources as an unfair situation today, then the entire concept of passive training and campaign imports is unfair, and will remain unfair for the new players of tomorrow.

At what point do you see this problem going away? When should the final wipe take place? Before the 1st sanctioned campaign? At the soft launch? At the end of every campaign?

There is no catch up mechanic ready now. There will be campaigns with no imports.

So yeah, there WILL be systems in place for new players. That just ain't there yet. If they dont full wipe before sanctioned the winners will be those who played during Christmas and farmed 1 month advance campaign to get full legendary sets ready. Gg. Whats the point in having a hyped "first sanctioned campaign" if you wanna destroy the entire competition straight off with unfair advantages? Just make the sanctioned campaign pay to win then, anyone who pays 100$ can get unlimited resources and maxed out passive tree.

And btw, even a weeks worth of passive training ahead is like 10% more mitigation somewhere, faster and higher quality farming, better crafting. Not to mention if you let imports in there. We will have our 20 account boys here with legendary sets for entire guild ready before we start.

Edited by Nervontuxis
added a point

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9 minutes ago, Nervontuxis said:

There is no catch up mechanic ready now. There will be campaigns with no imports.

So yeah, there WILL be systems in place for new players. That just ain't there yet. If they dont full wipe before sanctioned the winners will be those who played during Christmas and farmed 1 month advance campaign to get full legendary sets ready. Gg. Whats the point in having a hyped "first sanctioned campaign" if you wanna destroy the entire competition straight off with unfair advantages? Just make the sanctioned campaign pay to win then, anyone who pays 100$ can get unlimited resources and maxed out passive tree.

And btw, even a weeks worth of passive training ahead is like 10% more mitigation somewhere, faster and higher quality farming, better crafting. Not to mention if you let imports in there. We will have our 20 account boys here with legendary sets for entire guild ready before we start.

Define winners.

It's a team game, with an entire team of "winners".  

Tell me, what faction or guild is going to win right now if your so sure it's going to be the pre-christmas players.  If it's that clear, they should already be easy to identify, except that for the last several short campaigns it has been a battle back and forth between factions, and what has clearly been the determining factor, is what side decides to commit to winning in any given campaign, not how long they have been playing.

A fully reset campaign is more likely to be decided by what guilds are ticked off the most at the frequent resets, and who has guild leadership with real life commitments, than it is by any sort of perceived power imbalance.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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10 minutes ago, Nervontuxis said:

If they dont full wipe before sanctioned the winners will be those who played during Christmas and farmed 1 month advance campaign to get full legendary sets ready. 

Everything was wiped yesterday. Nothing from Christmas exists except passive training. Within 12 hours there were level 30s with advanced green gear.

If you played the game or followed the announcements, you would know this.

 

Edited by VaMei

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

Define winners.

It's a team game, with an entire team of "winners".  

Tell me, what faction or guild is going to win right now if your so sure it's going to be the pre-christmas players.  If it's that clear, they should already be easy to identify, except that for the last several short campaigns it has been a battle back and forth between factions, and what has clearly been the determining factor, is what side decides to commit to winning in any given campaign, not how long they have been playing.

 

You kidding me right?

These short campaigns have been guilds hopping from faction to faction just to make it more even. When we have something to fight for the alliances will kick in. And currently the top guilds can solo win campaigns and did, but no one wants to burn themselves out fighting over 5d campaigns non stop when theres nothing to win.

People don't give a poorly made socks about winning these 5d campaigns.

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1 minute ago, VaMei said:

Everything was wiped yesterday. Nothing from Christmas exists except passive training. Within 12 hours there were level 30s with advanced green gear.

If you played the game, you would know this.

 

Yeah i don't play the game. I was just in EU top 3 score for 3 campaigns in a row. And do you know why theres such good gear? Because people have maxed out harvesting and crafting due to passive training! Duh!

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Just now, Nervontuxis said:

You kidding me right?

These short campaigns have been guilds hopping from faction to faction just to make it more even. When we have something to fight for the alliances will kick in. And currently the top guilds can solo win campaigns and did, but no one wants to burn themselves out fighting over 5d campaigns non stop when theres nothing to win.

People don't give a poorly made socks about winning these 5d campaigns.

So identify the top players, and tell me how a reset is going to change who those players are.

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

So identify the top players, and tell me how a reset is going to change who those players are.

It will give a FAIR starting point! Thats the whole point! Even between the best players there will be insanely unfair advantage if you let current passive training and imports into sanctioned campaigns.

Why are you so afraid of wipe? Just do a full wipe and give 10-20x speed on passive training for the campaign if thats the issue. At least the competition would be fair then.

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Whats the point of fair even footing when testing mechanics?  We aren't playing the game, we are testing mechanics.  Right now we are ensuring some class balance changes, we are testing the new capture point balance systems, the new life totals for siege mechanics (bane trees and trees of life) and generally looking for broken things or ways to brake things. 

The game isn't going to be fair, not by a long shot.  Why does testing need to be fair and even?   Not trying to flame, I legitimately don't understand why it matters so much to a certain few people. 

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Just now, Nervontuxis said:

Yeah i don't play the game. I was just in EU top 3 score for 3 campaigns in a row. And do you know why theres such good gear? Because people have maxed out harvesting and crafting due to passive training! Duh!

You don't need harvesting to harvest in spring, and you don't "need" crafting to get into green gear, but it does help to maximize the pips.

The fact is, a reset will probably make it worse, not better, because it will further magnify the impact of individual experience. Right now guilds are gearing up ANYONE WHO SHOWS UP, because they have the build velocity to do so. 

With a reduced build velocity, guilds will turtle and focus on just the most active members, and certainly not on new players.  They won't have time to recruit, or help new players learn the ropes, like they do when they don't feel behind the curve.

A reset doesn't just level the playing field, it scorches the earth so that the guilds who know what to do are in an even BETTER posistion to capitalize and motivated to focus on killing new enemy players.

It's actually WORSE for new players to enter a blank slate, than one with other players that may support them.

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

You don't need harvesting to harvest in spring, and you don't "need" crafting to get into green gear, but it does help to maximize the pips.

The fact is, a reset will probably make it worse, not better, because it will further magnify the impact of individual experience. Right now guilds are gearing up ANYONE WHO SHOWS UP, because they have the build velocity to do so. 

With a reduced build velocity, guilds will turtle and focus on just the most active members, and certainly not on new players.  They won't have time to recruit, or help new players learn the ropes, like they do when they don't feel behind the curve.

A reset doesn't just level the playing field, it scorches the earth so that the guilds who know what to do are in an even BETTER posistion to capitalize and motivated to focus on killing new enemy players.

It's actually WORSE for new players to enter a blank slate, than one with other players that may support them.

I actually facepalmed when i read this.

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