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ferorious

The potential of this game saving the MMO genre

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Befor I begin with my novel (lol) let me explain some things, I personally think that this game has a lot of potential and I hope it will develop as such a title. I think you as the developer state pretty good what kind of game you want to make (and that is good so), you state very clearly what you want to implement in the game but for me it seems that you don't know how to do that. For example you said in several videos that you will have the possibility to scheme and to eventually betray other kings and so on, now i know that the game is still in the pre.Alpha but every update that came so fare (at least since I have the game) are fixes of some bugs and evtl performance, but I have never seen some content update so far, thats why I think you don't really know how to implement all the things that you mentioned. At this point I want to say that I think that it's better for the development of the game and the increase of customers to update more content than bugfixes, because its still in the alpha where bugs and performance problems are quite normal. The last thing I want to criticize is the direction that you are taking with the payment method, I played a lot of MMORPGs so far (I'm sure you have read that a lot of times already ;D), and made a lot of experiences (bad and good) about the different methods, the package method that you are using so far is OK, BUT you are taking the wrong path like a game called Black D***** Online (for the once who don't know what happend there is a summary in the spoiler underneath) especially the new possibility to buy guild tags and banners particularly because a kingdom without a banner is not a kingdom so you basically need to buy some designs from you.

Spoiler

They basically began with selling packages like crowfall, but instead of going on, on that path they began to sell always more gamerelevant items in the cash shop instead of only esthetic items. Now the game is pratically p2w it costs only 5€ instead of 45€ for a bundle the old players that were there since the beginning all left and became  angry, we sent a complaint as a whole guild and instead of giving us answers, they banned us for a few days and threatn us with a permanent ban if this happens again.

So I know that you as a company need to make money but I (I studied economy for about 5 years) think that if you make your customers happy within your financial possibilities they will more likely buy your products instead of buing the products of some developer studio that sees you as a cash cow (see the things mentiont above in the spoiler).

Now I've said enough negative aspects lets go to the suggestions I have. Like I mentioned before Crowfall has a lot of potential especially for Role Playing. Unlike other MMO"RPG"s you can play a role as King, Vasal or what ever and play your role as such, I think that is a really good point for Crowfall for the case that it will ve developt because Role Playing is a thing that everyone is missing lately in MMOs, for example why not implementing emoticon like kneeling for roleplaying an expacially for the feeling (this idea just came while writing this post ;D).

Now here some suggestions for the content that I personally think will be good for the game:

  1. So basically I think that Guilds are not needed or at least don`t call them guilds for the simple reason that you play a king so why should i bother about guilds if i am on the peak of the hierarchy. Instead of guilds I would recommend something else... (see later in point 3)
  2. Another idea of mine is that in case you supply your kingdom with recource it can develeop itself. For example you begin with your character and one parcel, you build now a house on that parcel and you have food provisions. As a result you gain a NPC citizen. And so you can grow your little city into a big kingdom. So the idea is about giving the player the possibility to take the role as a king and to take tasks and responsibilities as such. The next point is about how this should work.
    This method of groing a kingdom (also with NPCs) is also a good alternativ for solo players so you can make a weaker army not with players but with NPCs, so basically quantity instead of quality. (every game should have possibilty for solo players even Sea of Th**** have them)
  3. Like I mentioned befor you should take your ROLE as a king and manage your territory and liegemans, so that you can grow your small village into a proud kingdom so here the idea of how it should work: my idea was about making a own menu tab (like the crafting menu or the soul bank) where you can manage your kingdom. There you can assign your citizens to jobs for example NPC warriors of farmers or whatever, but especially the rights of your fellows like player vasalls should be managed there. There should be also a tab for diplomacy.
  4.  Another suggestion of mine is that your character is permanent and that you only train you skills in the escape menu for 2 reasons 
    - so that you can instead of training you own skills, make researches for developing you kingdom
    - for the simple reason that its your character and you want to level that one and not making for every campaign a new one (see also point 5)
  5. A point that also confused me was how the campain mode was made (dunno if it is only provisory) that`s why have a other suggestion how to make them:
    My idea is that you as a king need to go in the wilderniss (the campaign) for 2 things: 1. new/more resources 2. for more land (parcels). In the wide lands of the wilderniss you need to fight against the other kingdoms for the land and the resources, also against mobs hords and maybe NPC kingdoms that owns the land? And of course another possibility to gain this resources is to attack a other ethernal kingdom. The economy should be player driven so that you can become a merchant city so that you have alternatives of only military.
  6. The last idea that i have at the moment came with the following question: what if someone doesnt want to take the role as king? well the first alternativ is that he could work as a vassal or duke or whatever, the other possibility is my suggestion: Why not giving the possibility to use your ethernal kinggdom to create a base where you gather players and work as merchenarys or maybe just build a city that has a lot of power because its the central point for trading with other kingdoms. So I would suggest that you make something like a guild menu but you can select the category for example merchant or mercenary.

Final Note: You may have noticed that I wrote of a lot of "I think", "I would" ecc. thats because this are basically my (and of a friend of mine) thoughts but I think a lot of people can relate to what i've written here and may like some suggestions but the most important thing is that i didn't wrote this novel just for wanting my ideas in the game or for gaining something for myself, let me explain in detail: I basically grew up with MMORPGs and I`ve play a lot of games already and I noticed something that everyone who loves this genre should have... This genre is dying. so like I mentioned at the beginning I see a lot of potential in this game so that it may could revive this genre, and thats why i wrote this whole script so that YOU AS DEVELOPER could create a f***ing amazing game. All the things I've written are all for you developers so that you can gain profit and all the other benefits from creating a masterpiece. 
In reality I dont think that even one of my ideas will be realized (this are basically all possible things for a professional programmer) but I hope that at least the coremessage will arrive to you.

PS: English is the third language I speak and write so I hope that its somewhat understandable what i'ive written

Conquer the world and stay tuned
kind regards
FERO

Edited by ferorious

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From what I understood the original idea of CF was that the player was a "crow". A kind of soldier of the gods who goes from world to world collecting resources and recruiting "natives" before Hunger (a kind of curse that can not be destroyed) devour everything. This model of the player being "king / hero and having kingdom/ castle" already exists in a couple of games that were even forgotten.

Do not know exactly what the point of being a rich king or a legendary hero like in old games. This only creates stagnation in the original CF, a game that was originally meant to be a hostile and no peace, only war and conflicts of interest (betrayal), with the Gods using you against Hunger in a WILD PVP map like old Hunger Dome.

For me, the game need return to the original idea of you fighting for the survival of your race / world, desperately sacrificing others in bloody wars before the Hunger devoured everything. That yes is a good concept and that the DEVs have thrown aside placing that job simulator the game is now. 

I do not want to create a happy farm and be collecting lumber,  killing pigs or breaking rocks. I want to enslave NPCs into new colonized worlds, make my enemies die of hunger because I stole the last food they had or let my allies  in a condemned world as I flee and close the portal behind me. These "different" things try to create a true Game of Thrones and not this guild job simulator that I've seen in 100 other unsuccessful MMORPGs.

Edited by hamon

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3 hours ago, ferorious said:

...BUT you are taking the wrong path like a game called Black D***** Online....

  Reveal hidden contents

They basically began with selling packages like crowfall, but instead of going on, on that path they began to sell always more gamerelevant items in the cash shop instead of only esthetic items. Now the game is pratically p2w it costs only 5€ instead of 45€ for a bundle the old players that were there since the beginning all left and became  angry, we sent a complaint as a whole guild and instead of giving us answers, they banned us for a few days and threatn us with a permanent ban if this happens again.

So I know that you as a company need to make money but I (I studied economy for about 5 years) think that if you make your customers happy within your financial possibilities they will more likely buy your products instead of buing the products of some developer studio that sees you as a cash cow (see the things mentiont above in the spoiler).

 

Are you aware, they recently changed the impact of VIP so as to remove all the training advantages of subscription, because they asked themselves the question "If money didn't matter, how would you want to build this system?".

BD has P2W items like resurrection bonus powers, or locking features like horse breeding behind a paywall. 

ACE is not going down that road.

Please do a bit more research before throwing foo like this around.

 

BTW, in my experience any video game is pure poorly made socks for doing real RPG, and attempting to make one suit that job is using a hammer on a screw. I have never seen people successfully play a video game for the purpose of genuine role play.  There are simply too many other players not invested in your private RP story, that can and will break immersion at every opportunity.

Books, dice and imagination are the right tools for that job.

Maybe your own EK....

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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13 hours ago, hamon said:

 

From what I understood the original idea of CF was that the player was a "crow". A kind of soldier of the gods who goes from world to world collecting resources and recruiting "natives" before Hunger (a kind of curse that can not be destroyed) devour everything. This model of the player being "king / hero and having kingdom/ castle" already exists in a couple of games that were even forgotten.

Do not know exactly what the point of being a rich king or a legendary hero like in old games. This only creates stagnation in the original CF, a game that was originally meant to be a hostile and no peace, only war and conflicts of interest (betrayal), with the Gods using you against Hunger in a WILD PVP map like old Hunger Dome.

For me, the game need return to the original idea of you fighting for the survival of your race / world, desperately sacrificing others in bloody wars before the Hunger devoured everything. That yes is a good concept and that the DEVs have thrown aside placing that job simulator the game is now. 

I do not want to create a happy farm and be collecting lumber,  killing pigs or breaking rocks. I want to enslave NPCs into new colonized worlds, make my enemies die of hunger because I stole the last food they had or let my allies  in a condemned world as I flee and close the portal behind me. These "different" things try to create a true Game of Thrones and not this guild job simulator that I've seen in 100 other unsuccessful MMORPGs.

I didn't know the thing with the hunger so far, but I think thats pretty mutch what I`ve said. I never mentioned that you yourself will farm anything my idea was that you can assign you follower NPC to farm or you can take the food by foce from otherrs the choice is up to you. I think that it's important to give alternatives, for making an example what I mean I will take your comparison to GoT. In GoT there are also a the once who gain there land through fights and the once who gain it from marriage or inrige or waht not. So basically I only wanted to give an alternativ of course if you want to live as a peacful king you will have a hart time because the others want to take your land and food bacause you have plenty of that.

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12 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Are you aware, they recently changed the impact of VIP so as to remove all the training advantages of subscription, because they asked themselves the question "If money didn't matter, how would you want to build this system?".

BD has P2W items like resurrection bonus powers, or locking features like horse breeding behind a paywall. 

ACE is not going down that road.

Please do a bit more research before throwing foo like this around.

 

BTW, in my experience any video game is pure poorly made socks for doing real RPG, and attempting to make one suit that job is using a hammer on a screw. I have never seen people successfully play a video game for the purpose of genuine role play.  There are simply too many other players not invested in your private RP story, that can and will break immersion at every opportunity.

Books, dice and imagination are the right tools for that job.

Maybe your own EK....

First things first i apologize for giving you the wrong impressions I only wanted to give some constructiv critic (dunno if you can say that) and not accusing someone, I admit that it was my fault for not researching through the hole forum. But
1. i never said anything about the VIP system especially because in the PreAlpha I see no diffrence between the normal players and the VIP so you put some words in my mouth that I've never said, what I critized was the following:

Quote

 especially the new possibility to buy guild tags and banners particularly because a kingdom without a banner is not a kingdom so you basically need to buy some designs from you.

2. I made some critics but the main reason that I wrote this text was becaus of the suggestions I had (basically 90% of the text) like you can see from the quote underneath:

Quote

Befor I begin with my novel (lol) let me explain some things, I personally think that this game has a lot of potential and I hope it will develop as such a title. I think you as the developer state pretty good what kind of game you want to make (and that is good so), you state very clearly what you want to implement in the game but for me it seems that you don't know how to do that.

So for the second part of your reply I completely disagree, first I want to mention Ultima Onl**e, even if it's a old game it got quite populare because of its role play system. I cant remember any other game that had this kind of RPG content ecxept the game that I've just mentioned, and because its the only one a lot of people still play it. I also saw a lot of people in forums searching this kind of game but the answer was mainly "there are none" or "Ultima Onl**e". So there is a big request for this kind of game and thats why a lot of players set their eyes on "Leg**ds of Aria". And thats why I said that this kind of game has the potential to revive the genre 1. it can fulfill this demand and 2. it is the first game with this system with your own EK and so on. 

I apologize again for the misunderstanding and wish you a nice WKND

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@ferorious  With respect to the OP.  I do not get the impression from your post that you really understand the market that Crowfall is targeting, nor have you had any experience with this type of game.  Instead, your suggestions seem appropriate for some kind of single player kingdom building game.  Perhaps start your own Kickstarter as this is game is a far cry from what you are proposing.


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1 hour ago, hamon said:

This is CROW=soldier FALL=dead and no CrowN Wall

I understand your point @hamon but why implementing the ethernal kingdom and all the other stuff, if the content that they want to have in the final game is the one that you mentioned above it makes no sence at all. So thats why I asked myself the question do the developer know what content should be in the final game, or had they only this idea of some GoT like game and began a project whitout knowing the goal they want to achiev? (if you understand what I mean with that)

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11 minutes ago, ferorious said:

I understand your point @hamon but why implementing the ethernal kingdom and all the other stuff, if the content that they want to have in the final game is the one that you mentioned above it makes no sence at all. So thats why I asked myself the question do the developer know what content should be in the final game, or had they only this idea of some GoT like game and began a project whitout knowing the goal they want to achiev? (if you understand what I mean with that)

 

They wanted to please the players so they would create their happy farms without being plundered by other players and without having their progress erased by the end of the campaigns. But it's like a PVE mode that has no connection with the original CF, which was supposed to be the Crows killing themselves all the time to steal from each other the resources needed to survive against Hunger. Unfortunately these currently tested Campaigns were set aside the game from his original idea. The DEVs are having such a big problem with uncle bob that I think the DEVs spent precious resources that could be used to finalize the original idea of the game.

Edited by hamon

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29 minutes ago, Cosian said:

@ferorious  With respect to the OP.  I do not get the impression from your post that you really understand the market that Crowfall is targeting, nor have you had any experience with this type of game.  Instead, your suggestions seem appropriate for some kind of single player kingdom building game.  Perhaps start your own Kickstarter as this is game is a far cry from what you are proposing.

Sorry for my ignorance but what is OP?:D 

I do have experience in this kind of games its more like sanbox than MMORPG. And all of my suggestions and thoughts are surely not some kind of new project or single player game because the developer themselv wrote this things on their website (under Game -> what is crowfall), here some example:

Spoiler
MERCANTILE EMPIRES

Create trade routes and drop vendors in shops across multiple worlds... With no need to farm monsters for rare loot and no automated auction house, we've made the economy social again.

This sounds a lot like what I`ve mentioned above, in case you can go look it for yourself on this page: https://crowfall.com/en/what-is-crowfall/

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4 minutes ago, hamon said:

 

They wanted to please the players so they would create their happy farms without being plundered by other players and without having their progress erased by the end of the campaigns. But it's like a PVE mode that has no connection with the original CF, which was supposed to be the Crows killing themselves all the time to steal from each other the resources needed to survive against Hunger. Unfortunately these currently tested Campaigns were set aside the game from his original idea. The DEVs are having such a big problem with uncle bob that I think the DEVs spent precious resources that could be used to finalize the original idea of the game.

But like I mentioned above in the answer to Cosian they have a complete other idea of how the game should look in the end, you can also go to the website where they write their impressions of how the game should be: https://crowfall.com/en/what-is-crowfall/

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9 minutes ago, ferorious said:

But like I mentioned above in the answer to Cosian they have a complete other idea of how the game should look in the end, you can also go to the website where they write their impressions of how the game should be: https://crowfall.com/en/what-is-crowfall/

 

Yes I know that. The DEVs changed the course of the game and moved away from the original idea of hunger being the Crows' great natural and stealth enemy. I found a very wrong decision. These campaigns are just giving the DEV a headache due uncle bob balance. Very much DEV resource and time  lost in failed tests.

Edited by hamon

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23 minutes ago, hamon said:

 

Yes I know that. The DEVs changed the course of the game and moved away from the original idea of hunger being the Crows' great natural and stealth enemy. I found a very wrong decision. These campaigns are just giving the DEV a headache due uncle bob balance. Very much DEV resource and time  lost in failed tests.

Ok I now get what you mean but now it is like it is they practically changed the complite game principle, but basically in the ideas mentioned above you could have this kind of this situation to. If your kingdom suffers under famine you can go and snitch it away from others and so on.

Also wouldn't a game like that be only a other survival game like rust or dayz ecc. where you can trust each other and help or betray and so on

Edited by ferorious

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33 minutes ago, hamon said:

 

...  the original CF, which was supposed to be the Crows killing themselves all the time to steal from each other the resources needed to survive against Hunger. Unfortunately these currently tested Campaigns were set aside the game from his original idea. The DEVs are having such a big problem with uncle bob that I think the DEVs spent precious resources that could be used to finalize the original idea of the game.

This may have been your interpretation or your personal original idea for the game, but as an original backer of the game, the campaigns represent what I envisioned.  I certainly did not get the impression that the campaign mode would the next Battle Royale  game you continue to seek.


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5 minutes ago, Cosian said:

This may have been your interpretation or your personal original idea for the game, but as an original backer of the game, the campaigns represent what I envisioned.  I certainly did not get the impression that the campaign mode would the next Battle Royale  game you continue to seek.

 

I think it's funny you say that, but it was the Hunger Dome that made the CF get the support of 50,000 supporters and attracted the specialized media. Today I even tested the Ashes of Creation Apocalypse (old hunger dome in CF), which is using all the ideas that CF abandoned and guess the test servers are FULL of players.  Campaigns have been launched and we have 200 players online. WTF very good.

Edited by hamon

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1 minute ago, Cosian said:

This may have been your interpretation or your personal original idea for the game, but as an original backer of the game, the campaigns represent what I envisioned.  I certainly did not get the impression that the campaign mode would the next Battle Royale  game you continue to seek.

I never seeked any BR game (I hate them all to say the truth) and i didn't even mention any kind of content like that reasembles a BR game. And if you say that this is aninterpretation of mine than what you "envisioned" is your opinion. With all kind of respect, but I think your answer sounds more like some kind of excuse than a actual argument against my answer. Because a lot of the descriptions that the DEVs made on the homepage overlap with the things i've written.

What I seek is exactly what is written above: the possibility to grow as a king and see the development of my char

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36 minutes ago, ferorious said:

Sorry for my ignorance but what is OP?:D 

I do have experience in this kind of games its more like sanbox than MMORPG. And all of my suggestions and thoughts are surely not some kind of new project or single player game because the developer themselv wrote this things on their website (under Game -> what is crowfall), here some example:

  Reveal hidden contents
MERCANTILE EMPIRES

Create trade routes and drop vendors in shops across multiple worlds... With no need to farm monsters for rare loot and no automated auction house, we've made the economy social again.

This sounds a lot like what I`ve mentioned above, in case you can go look it for yourself on this page: https://crowfall.com/en/what-is-crowfall/

OP is Original Poster .. thats you!  I would not classify this game as sandbox MMO.  I would define the core principles of the game as campaign style - team centric - objective based PvP.  Now certainly there are the games supporting peripheral systems ... such as the Eternal Kingdom.  Admittedly the function of the EK and integration with the campaigns still seems to be a bit in flux.  However, what you noted in your hidden content is in there.  You could, with the permission of the EK owner setup a vendor in a Kingdom.  


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Just now, ferorious said:

I never seeked any BR game (I hate them all to say the truth) and i didn't even mention any kind of content like that reasembles a BR game. And if you say that this is aninterpretation of mine than what you "envisioned" is your opinion. With all kind of respect, but I think your answer sounds more like some kind of excuse than a actual argument against my answer. Because a lot of the descriptions that the DEVs made on the homepage overlap with the things i've written.

What I seek is exactly what is written above: the possibility to grow as a king and see the development of my char

Hehe that response was for Hamon :)


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5 minutes ago, hamon said:

 

I think it's funny you say that, but it was the Hunger Dome that made the CF get the support of 50,000 supporters and attracted the specialized media. Today I even tested the Ashes of Creation Apocalypse (old hunger dome in CF), which is using all the ideas that CF abandoned and guess the test servers are FULL of players.  Campaigns have been launched and we have 200 players online. WTF very good.

Of course going "Battle Royale" will attract an audience. I don't really see the point here. Everyone should just turn games into mass-appealing (in this case Battle Royale) games, to have as many players as possible, rather than catering to a very invested niche audience?

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5 minutes ago, hamon said:

 

I think it's funny you say that, but it was the Hunger Dome that made the CF get the support of 50,000 supporters and attracted the specialized media. Today I even tested the Ashes of Creation Apocalypse (old hunger dome in CF), which is using all the ideas that CF abandoned and guess the test servers are FULL of players.  Campaigns have been launched and we have 200 players online. WTF very good.

Dude ... when 50000 Kickstarter backups showed up there was no Hunger Dome or even talk about that to my knowledge.  Hunger Dome came about simply to test larger scale PvP.  I get it ... you liked it and it became your definition of what the game was going to be.


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