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thedamphamster

First campaign import issue solved

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Simple solution:

 

Step 1: Wipe everything including inventory, equipped gear, spirit bank, vessels, and passive skills.  Everything.

 

Step 2: Give everyone 2,000,000 passive skill training points (yeah, you might have to increase the hard ceiling if there is one).  This is broken down into one million for primary and one million for secondary skill. 

 

Step 3: Just like you gave us all testing copies of parcels and structures give us testing copies of:

One green vessel for every race (allows folks to try out different ones)

100 green hide

100 green ore

100 green stone

100 green lumber

(you can give equal amounts of different kinds like 20 iron, 20 tin, 20 copper, etc…)

 

Step 4: Let everyone play at the same slightly advanced state

 

This way everyone feels like they are starting at the same place yet people who have been playing for some time now have the experience to make better use of the head start.  They know which passive skills to train, which talents to take, and what sequence of powers are best for their chosen race/class.  There will always be (and should always be) an advantage for those who play more (play 2 win baby)!

 

Done.

 

PS: Oh, and don’t let us look at the map and faction points before selecting a faction.  This keeps the moderate number of single/solo/no-alt players from all just joining the same faction on day 2 or 3.

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What do I know!?  I just play the game.

Fine.

How about just the passive skill points (we'll make is 500,000 for primary and 500,000 for secondary), no green vessels, but some amount of non-basic ore, hide, wood, and stone.  How about that?

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At this point, I think when they announce the first sanctioned campaign they should only give out forum badges, 'cause people keep obsessing about these wipes as a solution to a fairness problem.

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Actually, at this point I'd love it if they did a full wipe, so that all these new people will realize that it won't make a bit of a difference.

It isn't passive training that is causing the bigger, veteran, organized guilds to lead their factions to success and win fights.

It's the fact that they are big groups of organized veterans.

How are you going to wipe these player's preference to group up, or their understanding of all game mechanics at a deep level, or their dedication to spend countless hours farming in well organized teams to accumulate mass resources as quickly as possible?

You can't. Which is why begging for wipes and resets won't make the game any more fair for people who don't know every aspect of the game, don't run in a big team, and don't have hundreds of hours a week to devote to farming.

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10 hours ago, DocDoom said:

Actually, at this point I'd love it if they did a full wipe, so that all these new people will realize that it won't make a bit of a difference.

It isn't passive training that is causing the bigger, veteran, organized guilds to lead their factions to success and win fights.

It's the fact that they are big groups of organized veterans.

How are you going to wipe these player's preference to group up, or their understanding of all game mechanics at a deep level, or their dedication to spend countless hours farming in well organized teams to accumulate mass resources as quickly as possible?

You can't. Which is why begging for wipes and resets won't make the game any more fair for people who don't know every aspect of the game, don't run in a big team, and don't have hundreds of hours a week to devote to farming.

^ is right.  No wipe is going to make the field balanced.  A wipe wont change that the established crafters have spreadsheets for every item combination.  A wipe wont change that people know what to build to min max harvesting, crafting or combat.  A wipe wont change a guilds established division of labor or how frequently they go hit motherloads as an organized force.  It wont change spec groups that we know work and tested over and over builds that we know do well.  Wipe, don't wipe it doesn't change the personal advantage experience testers have accumulated.  The game is designed for groups to work together, if your purposely choosing not to its going to be rough. 

 

Just wait a few months when they stop testing factions and test dregs.  You will be forced to join, or build, a guild to even be able to play since factions won't be there to help at all.  That's when you will really see a division between the haves and the have nots. 

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I love it how the arguments to prevent any type of even playfield is based on personal knowledge of the game and established numbers in guild. Can we now take into consideration everyone's recent statistical mathematics courses, leadership experience in work life and perhaps also your personal learning speed?

And i think the best part here is that for some reason anyone on the side of wipe is automatic a new player and is just crying because they can't win. Ofc every good player wants to stomp opponents with better gear and doesn't care about a more fair starting ground. And saying that passive training doesn't affect is just a joke. A weeks worth of passive training is already an insanely large advantage, not to mention the fact you harvest faster and better quality and craft way better gear. A new guy crafting his blue gear has worse stats than a maxed out guy doing white ones.

And it doesn't matter even if you got even 100x training speed after wipe. "It's too much work for ace". Just admit it guys, you are afraid the average joes might actually beat you. So instead its better to just farm until everyone has legendary gear to import with maxed out crafting. Oh yeah, I forgot, none of these hardcore vets really care for the sanctioned campaign. Yet they are playing several hours a day farming for gear and capping to win. But sure, you don't care, just like you don't care when someone kills you and you cry in chat for the next 5 minutes.

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35 minutes ago, Nervontuxis said:

I love it how the arguments to prevent any type of even playfield is based on personal knowledge of the game and established numbers in guild. Can we now take into consideration everyone's recent statistical mathematics courses, leadership experience in work life and perhaps also your personal learning speed?

And i think the best part here is that for some reason anyone on the side of wipe is automatic a new player and is just crying because they can't win. Ofc every good player wants to stomp opponents with better gear and doesn't care about a more fair starting ground. And saying that passive training doesn't affect is just a joke. A weeks worth of passive training is already an insanely large advantage, not to mention the fact you harvest faster and better quality and craft way better gear. A new guy crafting his blue gear has worse stats than a maxed out guy doing white ones.

And it doesn't matter even if you got even 100x training speed after wipe. "It's too much work for ace". Just admit it guys, you are afraid the average joes might actually beat you. So instead its better to just farm until everyone has legendary gear to import with maxed out crafting. Oh yeah, I forgot, none of these hardcore vets really care for the sanctioned campaign. Yet they are playing several hours a day farming for gear and capping to win. But sure, you don't care, just like you don't care when someone kills you and you cry in chat for the next 5 minutes.

All fights should consist of 12 people, on flat ground, and in basics. Devs should FORCE this, otherwise its unfair. This is what you want.

Crowfall isn't a fair game; it never will be. If you can't except that sometimes other people will have better gear, more numbers, or some other logistical advantage then you are in for a rough time my friend.

Edited by Zatch

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24 minutes ago, Zatch said:

All fights should consist of 12 people, on flat ground, and in basics. Devs should FORCE this, otherwise its unfair. This is what you want.

Crowfall isn't a fair game; it never will be. If you can't except that sometimes other people will have better gear, more numbers, or some other logistical advantage then you are in for a rough time my friend.

Yeah its not gonna be a fair game. So why are people crying about p2w aspects then? Like back when we had racials double dip via VIP? Why should the game be fair when we start at launch? Lets just give those who backed the game full legendary poorly made socks and maxed out vessels cause the game isn't fair.

Same goes for the sanctioned campaign, just let the people who are now hyped for sanctioned get f. over because they are behind. They don't deserve to compete cause they weren't serious about the game during Christmas and right now ready to farm a month pre sanction to get top gear to import.

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22 minutes ago, Nervontuxis said:

Yeah its not gonna be a fair game. So why are people crying about p2w aspects then? Like back when we had racials double dip via VIP? Why should the game be fair when we start at launch? Lets just give those who backed the game full legendary poorly made socks and maxed out vessels cause the game isn't fair.

Same goes for the sanctioned campaign, just let the people who are now hyped for sanctioned get f. over because they are behind. They don't deserve to compete cause they weren't serious about the game during Christmas and right now ready to farm a month pre sanction to get top gear to import.

Please drop the hyperbole, it's embarrassing. 

No one wants money to be an outright decider in this game. This a concept in ALL competition whether it be sports, video games, or throwing rocks. A year from launch the people who've played since day one will have a gear and skill training advantage. MMOs are not lobby based games; they're a persistent world where player decisions made before you joined have and will continue to have ramifications. If you can't accept this, play DOTA. It's a great game and every game starts and stops at square one.

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Just now, Zatch said:

Please drop the hyperbole, it's embarrassing. 

No one wants money to be an outright decider in this game. This a concept in ALL competition whether it be sports, video games, or throwing rocks. A year from launch the people who've played since day one will have a gear and skill training advantage. MMOs are not lobby based games; they're a persistent world where player decisions made before you joined have and will continue to have ramifications. If you can't accept this, play DOTA. It's a great game and every game starts and stops at square one.

Money wasen't a decider. VIP system was not pour money = get more.

After launch people will have catch up mechanics. We do not have those now.

And there is still 0 arguments why a wipe would be bad. Other than "we are tired of wipes" you are testers. "I want high passive training" well we can set 25x training.

So where is the argument? Game isn't gonna be fair? Well game doesn't need to be fair at launch then either, lets just keep our passive training from now until after launch, cause game isn't gonna be fair right?

 

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8 minutes ago, Nervontuxis said:

Money wasen't a decider. VIP system was not pour money = get more.

After launch people will have catch up mechanics. We do not have those now.

And there is still 0 arguments why a wipe would be bad. Other than "we are tired of wipes" you are testers. "I want high passive training" well we can set 25x training.

So where is the argument? Game isn't gonna be fair? Well game doesn't need to be fair at launch then either, lets just keep our passive training from now until after launch, cause game isn't gonna be fair right?

 

VIP was exactly that. You spent money to get VIP and got more skill points.

You're upset about a prealpha. Whatever takes the devs no time to implement is the best course of action. They do need to test the skill difference between players who start at different times to see how it feels. If you are that concerned about gear, join a guild. 

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I’d settle for the removal of soul-crushing lag and poor performance.  Nothing can be truly balanced, or even taken seriously for that matter, until we are provided a play space that can handle the play.

 

If we’re being honest, “first sanctioned campaign” is just a marketing tool to keep the testers from abandoning, and has no place in this current state of the game.

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Would it even be hard to do what OP is proposing? Those guys got them DEV powers. I really cant see where it would be an 'insane amount of work on their part.'

You guys are just shouting down all ideas without even reading at this point. It is kinda funny how adverse y'all are about a wipe.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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11 minutes ago, Zatch said:

VIP was exactly that. You spent money to get VIP and got more skill points.

You're upset about a prealpha. Whatever takes the devs no time to implement is the best course of action. They do need to test the skill difference between players who start at different times to see how it feels. If you are that concerned about gear, join a guild. 

So why don't you bother giving me a reason why not wipe or do what op is suggesting? And i don't need to join a guild, im in Caldera and we won't have issues building that gear for sanctioned. I'm just saying its wonderful to force that on players who wanna compete. And it will alienate a lot of the testers who would wanna do the sanctioned, as they will have no chance to have a meaningful impact.

Every top guild is gonna bring in as much as imports allow worth of top quality gear. Then its gonna be pure pvp without having to harvest at all. You seriously don't think that will be demotivating to people outside the biggest guilds?

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1 hour ago, Nervontuxis said:

So why don't you bother giving me a reason why not wipe or do what op is suggesting? And i don't need to join a guild, im in Caldera and we won't have issues building that gear for sanctioned. I'm just saying its wonderful to force that on players who wanna compete. And it will alienate a lot of the testers who would wanna do the sanctioned, as they will have no chance to have a meaningful impact.

Every top guild is gonna bring in as much as imports allow worth of top quality gear. Then its gonna be pure pvp without having to harvest at all. You seriously don't think that will be demotivating to people outside the biggest guilds?

I don't care if they wipe or not. To spend dev time making a prealpha is "balanced"-in a game that will be imbalanced by design-is a waste of valuable time. I see no issue with people being demotivated to play an incomplete game. Everything you have will be wiped in the next three months, and everything you do in the next six months will be wiped.

Until the game reaches a live product ACE needs to spend their time and money correctly. If a patch causes wipes, or makes Nooby Nolan sad he can't compete; I care not.

Edited by Zatch

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So when someone new joins the game a year or 2 after launch and crys like s bitxh becuase your further ahead than then you going to be OK with a wipe? Stop crying, as a rewards for testing before you I get more passive skill points. Go play custard wow if you have a problem with time passed training.

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1 hour ago, BarriaKarl said:

Would it even be hard to do what OP is proposing? Those guys got them DEV powers. I really cant see where it would be an 'insane amount of work on their part.'

You guys are just shouting down all ideas without even reading at this point. It is kinda funny how adverse y'all are about a wipe.

They would have to find a way to generate all of that and somehow get in on every account with access and ever character that account makes.  They would have to generate premade vessels of how many types to just cover what he wanted in vessels?  They could just make a vendor like on test with every resource on it and then people have to make it all but that won't exactly be a level playing field as the dedicated crafters who have been playing for years all have charts about what makes what and how while new players are stuck figuring it out themselves.  They would need to go and change all the speeds at which points are accrued and the caps for training while ensuring they can be changed later to whatever fixed values they might want to keep (or not keep) later.  They would need to wipe the skill databases and bring up new ones. 

It wouldn't be hard to do and it would take some time to ensure it all works but it is doable, the question comes down to how much time and money do you want to devote to a psuedo even playing field in a stage where your still making the mechanics that govern the game itself.  As the game gets more stable and they move into different phases of the game I 100% think there should be wipes (and I've been here for every wipe and support all of them) but on this one I am "eh" as the point isn't wiping it for dev reasons but appeasement of a split community. 

EDIT:  I thought of this after I typed my response: we all agree farming resources is part of the game.  People differ on whether its enjoyable or balanced but it is part of the game, like it or not.  Giving free resources en masse would effectively kill farming.  The point mechanics are deeply interconnected with the idea of seasons impacting how people can harvest and gutting one aspect of that will not present a good test of how it all works together in a longer format.  Even if people are bringing stockpiles we will still be farming for more.  Gear still breaks and needs to be replaced, better gear can still be made and harvesting is how that's done.  Sure they can hand it all out for free but then what are they testing? 

Lastly are small guilds and solo players playing this thinking they are going to win knowing a larger more organized guild can easily smash them.  If the point is testing siege mechanics and win conditions coupled with seasonal impacts on a longer campaign why aren't we testing those mechanics to the fullest?  Why are the big guild best capable of testing those the bad guys? 

Edited by mandalore

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22 minutes ago, mandalore said:

won't exactly be a level playing field as the dedicated crafters who have been playing for years all have charts about what makes what

This is the same as saying there won't be a level playing field as some people have previous experience in mmo and some don't. Or that some people are better in pvp than others. Some have better butt muscles for longer game sessions. It has nothing to do with the actual game and how we start off.

There is still zero arguments to support keeping all the progression.

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