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Flak

What is the current end-game vision?

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So I've been irregularly following the dev process.  With the recent changes to crafting and talents I realize I've missed a lot and now I'm puzzled.

I get the core gameplay loop, but what are you doing once you have "the basics" down?

Previously I had thought special crafting recipes and ingredients were going to be available to different guilds based on campaign involvement, which would create divergence over time and make comps and characters different as guilds and players would chase different rewards and would end up therefore in different places.  Maybe one guild would have super powerful frostweaver discs, but another might have the best fire axe recipe in game.

With the new "recipe on discipline" scheme, I realize that's obviously no longer likely, which leaves the question in my head of what is.

In general I liken a lot of the meta elements of  CF to EvE in certain respects.  But EvE's permanent territory system obviously doesn't apply here (which is good and bad), but the depth of the economic model is the loss that, if true, seems unfortunate in a game that involves "restarting" from scratch periodically from a map progress persective.

So what is the incentive or goal in joining the next campaign, exactly?  What are you getting as a guild when you choose to drop into campaign A vs B?  Does a guild who wins 9 "B" worlds have less flexibility but a super specialized... Something?

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I too am interested in the eventual mechanisms between campaign and EK.  But that said, for me its not about the next shiny, but rather good, campaign style RvR/GvG PvP. 

The incentive or goal in joining the next campaign is taking part in a team based and objective based game.  Winning the campaign is its own reward ... at least for me.  Even without the unique reward based recipes, you will see that the importance of crafters, gatherers, and logistics is an important component of the campaign, even under the current rulesets.

At the end of the day I too think it will be cool to have specialized crafter recipes etc... However, while these specializations will be fun and perhaps keep things more interesting for individuals, I doubt they would convey some substantial benefit or risk impacting the balance elements necessary for good PvP campaigns.


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Don’t forget that’s not the only division between guilds.  The factions worlds, last it was talked about, will have less resources than the dregs Bc it will be harder to hold poorly made socks so there’s a greater reward.  How that will be done, it it’s even still being done, isn’t something you’ve factored into the discussion yet.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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Well in truth that's why I'm asking.  Some of the gameplay elements changing (which don't get me wrong a lot of good has come of the iterating) seem to pull in a few directions.  Obviously things will continue to change, but I was hoping there was a refined and updated "vision" video or post somewhere to refer to.

Ultimately, even if it's cosmetics, there needs to be something for people to chase.  Though, given this is more RPG and less PUBG, I am personally hoping for a bit more than skins.

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It may sound weird to you, but I can entertain myself for a veeeery long time by just fighting other players for objectives if there's enough depth to the combat. I wouldn't even need to be rewarded for it and I'd still do it.

There are no npc given quest or a storyline to follow. You have to make those yourself. If you can't do that or don't want to, maybe this is not the right game for you.

Or am I in the wrong here? I always thought this was the vision the devs had, but tbh lately it feels like in their effort to please more and more ppl this game is just becoming another generic mmorpg like the hundret others that have come and gone before CF.

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3 hours ago, Glitchhiker said:

It may sound weird to you, but I can entertain myself for a veeeery long time by just fighting other players for objectives if there's enough depth to the combat. I wouldn't even need to be rewarded for it and I'd still do it.

There are no npc given quest or a storyline to follow. You have to make those yourself. If you can't do that or don't want to, maybe this is not the right game for you.

Or am I in the wrong here? I always thought this was the vision the devs had, but tbh lately it feels like in their effort to please more and more ppl this game is just becoming another generic mmorpg like the hundret others that have come and gone before CF.

I think you're kind of wrong kind of right.

"Throne war simulator".  It's about the systems.  The combat should be fun though.  They have some work to do on that front imho.  Not responsive enough.  But hopefully that will come.

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When I saw the name CrowFall, I thought being a Crow (a survivor soldier of the gods) was a wonderful thing. Being a soldier of the gods in a decadent world having to cannibalize enemies just to stay alive and to do everything to survive seemed so cool. Then I go into the game and I have to kill little pigs, cut timbers, and make tables. I was like, omg, what the hell is that? Is this the atmosphere of apocalypse full of the tragedy and despair of having to fight against HUNGER without a chance to win?

From what I understand they want the player to enter a very large guild and each one makes a different kind of item with mastery, that is, you will have to enter a guild  if you want good quality items and you will need players specialized in craft to do a simple PVP. Having good teams you again need a big guild to try to win the game through siege battles that are usually unbalanced as hell. This is the end-game. A JOB SIMULATOR.

Edited by hamon

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19 hours ago, Flak said:

So what is the incentive or goal in joining the next campaign, exactly?  What are you getting as a guild when you choose to drop into campaign A vs B?  Does a guild who wins 9 "B" worlds have less flexibility but a super specialized... Something?

What's the incentive to play any lobby based game that by the numbers are massively more popular than MMOs? Skins, ranks, achievements, or other non performance influencing rewards.

There have mentioned Relics and Artifacts that could be placed in EKs to provide buffs within the EK and Campaigns. They could also reward with X number of resources like 1000 wood or 500 gems or whatever for grafting. Providing higher quality/quantity depending on the campaign difficulty and how the victors won. Skins, forum badges, in-game trophies to be worn on the character, titles, and so on. They could make it per factions, guild, or player. Could even make it a chose like a player could either take a skin, resources, or particular race vessel.

There is quite a lot of options but with so much work to be done, this is likely to be a closer to release and post launch worry.

Simply playing the game is a reward in itself that I am looking forward to.

Also, the current ability to make/equip Disciplines isn't the final design. It's just to get us through testing. Having Disciplines or resources to create them are planned to drop or come from NPCs or something eventually. Depending on campaign rules, winning a particular Discipline like Alchemy might come in handy if the next campaign doesn't have Alchemy Disciplines within the world. Could even make it where X wasn't available to import normally at the start but there was a special "Victory Import" slot where a reward from a previous campaign would come in at no charge. Ex: Alchemy Disciplines can't be imported but can be crafting within, having the previously rewarded Discipline imported would be a head start. Just pulling this out of the air, but seems entirely possible with what they have designed/said so far.

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The carrot for going through successive campaigns is, in a broad sense, EKs

EKs are the end point, the "why" of winning campaigns, to export loot, grow permanent kingdoms, and do... whatever you want with them.

Think of an EK like a trophy shelf. Maybe you have a personal trophy shelf or maybe you share one with a group of players.

Maybe your trophy shelf is for cosmetics or maybe your trophy shelf is part of a wider player created metagame of PvP EKs.

Maybe your trophy shelf is purely utilitarian and used only for EK crafting and relic buffs or maybe it's part of a living environment of trade and combat.

Maybe you don't care about the trophy shelf at all and in use your winnings in trade to afford better vessels and gear to progress an ever more dominant field position in import campaigns.

Because there is no implicit use for EKe and no explicit competitive endgame attached to them, Crowfall's endgame is purposely very subjective.

"Winning" a campaign is a very specific thing, but "winning" Crowfall itself is not specifically to let players set their own permanent goals and define their own endgame while still interacting on a somewhat more "matchmade" system of competition by choosing campaign types that align with those goals.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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On 1/26/2019 at 6:52 AM, hamon said:

 

This is the end-game. A JOB SIMULATOR.

Ding ding ding ding!!!

We have a winner!!! And this is why this game is not gaining traction fast enough.   This isn't pvp, this is work/aka boring.

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9 hours ago, Wrain said:

Ding ding ding ding!!!

We have a winner!!! And this is why this game is not gaining traction fast enough.   This isn't pvp, this is work/aka boring.

Especially when it's to late for those that can't participate in sieges . log in , harvest materials , catch a fight or 2 if lucky enough , spend half the time traveling to get where your going spend time harvesting , making gear , then go to sleep . Go work come home and repeat for 2.5 hours . lol yea does sound a lot like work

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1 hour ago, BigJerk said:

Especially when it's to late for those that can't participate in sieges . log in , harvest materials , catch a fight or 2 if lucky enough , spend half the time traveling to get where your going spend time harvesting , making gear , then go to sleep . Go work come home and repeat for 2.5 hours . lol yea does sound a lot like work

Seiges re stand in a big castle wait for an attack that often doesnt happen then kill some tree and log off. If there a fight get angry about 5fps and if tree goes down pray that RNG loves you so u get apple down first

Forts are probaly more entertaining if they wernt being back capped constantly without any heads up before hand 


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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15 minutes ago, veeshan said:

Seiges re stand in a big castle wait for an attack that often doesnt happen then kill some tree and log off. If there a fight get angry about 5fps and if tree goes down pray that RNG loves you so u get apple down first

Forts are probaly more entertaining if they wernt being back capped constantly without any heads up before hand 

Lol doesn't sound so good either , maybe. I haven't been to many sieges , but I would feel like everyday is a lot, primed for a quick burn out. Yea the patch didn't fix the back capping . That's a shame to .

Edited by BigJerk

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2 hours ago, veeshan said:

Seiges re stand in a big castle wait for an attack that often doesnt happen then kill some tree and log off. If there a fight get angry about 5fps and if tree goes down pray that RNG loves you so u get apple down first

Forts are probaly more entertaining if they wernt being back capped constantly without any heads up before hand 

The every day is part of the testing environment not a representation of how frequent it will be on live.  On live it will use the capture mechanics after somebody starts the siege; if it follows SB then the mats to start it will have to be farmed and then once it’s dropped the defender gets to pick a window for the day it goes live.  Doing it every day has to be exhausting and kudos to the testers that can; I can’t. 

The system isn’t perfect nor is it complete.  It needs some fine tuning and some additional balance.  It’s the same as most of the other CF issues: prealpha, give it some time. 

As for balance FPS slide shows, yea...that’s a big one.  Game has to work.  The game used to not be able to run 20 people, now it can’t run 80 people.  The rate of progress is slow but it’s improving so again we are stuck with just waiting.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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22 hours ago, Wrain said:

Ding ding ding ding!!!

We have a winner!!! And this is why this game is not gaining traction fast enough.   This isn't pvp, this is work/aka boring.

WOODY WOODPECKER PVP in a utopic CrowFall!!! Best CROW ever.

Edited by hamon

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