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while leveling in a leveling group, there was a character named Acex he was in another group in our faction, when the group left, a group from another faction came along to Attack the leveling group we were in and in that group was another person with the name Acex, this is too serious a coincidence to not address because a person can have as many accounts as he or she has email account and real life cash. I am wondering how this could be dissuaded as I feel this Could be a game breaker.

 

Edited by Sasna
to make a clearer statment

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This game is a wallet warrior paradise. Unfortunately, if you pay money for an alt account you can do wintrading with your alt  char in another faction so that you can spy on and use your main char to attack the enemy faction more easily. Funny that CF DEVs said it was not going to give P2W advantages. 

Players are already going to extremes just to win in a pre-alpha game. Imagine when it is released and with true rewards, it will be a total disaster new players realizing they need to buy 2-3 keys to be able to play the game in same conditions of a wallet warrior... Very good design to a Korean MMORPG.

Unfortunately full loot on open map (without MM system) have always favored those who spend more real money to use many accounts, as they can spy on the enemy faction safely and without having counter mechanics. Risk vs. reward can be undone easily.

Edited by hamon

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30 minutes ago, hamon said:

This game is a wallet warrior paradise. Unfortunately, if you pay money for an alt account you can do wintrading with your alt  char in another faction so that you can spy on and use your main char to attack the enemy faction more easily. Funny that CF DEVs said it was not going to give P2W advantages. 

Players are already going to extremes just to win in a pre-alpha game. Imagine when it is released and with true rewards, it will be a total disaster new players realizing they need to buy 2-3 keys to be able to play the game in same conditions of a wallet warrior... Very good design to a Korean MMORPG.

I think the problem is mostly exacerbated by the fact that there are factions where spies are completely safe. The campaigns with the largest rewards, ie Dregs, won't have this issue unless they had specifically infiltrated your guild/alliance. In which case you got played 100%.

Of course, that doesn't remove that fact that multiple accounts give multiple training avenues, which could be perceived as a bigger problem.

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39 minutes ago, Groovin said:

I think the problem is mostly exacerbated by the fact that there are factions where spies are completely safe. The campaigns with the largest rewards, ie Dregs, won't have this issue unless they had specifically infiltrated your guild/alliance. In which case you got played 100%.

Of course, that doesn't remove that fact that multiple accounts give multiple training avenues, which could be perceived as a bigger problem.

 

Exactly. The game does not have a spy countermeasure system against alt chars and wintrading. Dregs will have a serious problem of spies trying to enter into small guilds that need players and will almost automatic accept new chars. This is the hell for new players/new guilds and to game increase playerbase.

Players from large guilds will frantically loot small guilds due spy and this will create a very fast uncle bob as everything in game will be focused on very large groups like ShadowBane and Albion and this generate stagnation on PVP on long run. This is very predictable.

In my opinion the player should be able to do everything in the game through a respec/multispec system only available to players who have premium. Simple and secure.

Edited by hamon

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4 hours ago, hamon said:

 

Dregs will have a serious problem of spies trying to enter into small guilds that need players and will almost automatic accept new chars. This is the hell for new players/new guilds and to game increase playerbase.

 

 

Maybe these small guilds should start out in Faction warfare to get established. You're just setting up worst case scenarios to support your point, as if they are the exist in an environment without personal choice.

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7 hours ago, DocDoom said:

 

Maybe these small guilds should start out in Faction warfare to get established. You're just setting up worst case scenarios to support your point, as if they are the exist in an environment without personal choice.

 

Imagining the worst case scenario is the goal of being a tester.  Unfortunately, I do not like the system of factions and guilds combined with full loot as this can break the system of risk x reward due spies with alt accounts.

I am not against espionage as long as there is effective counter-espionage. If it is not possible to spy on and use counterintelligence just by buying an account, then better not even allow mechanics to spy using multiple accounts. This is a full loot game. High Risk and High reward is the war motto.

When the campaign system was launched, I already knew he was going to fail in the fight against Uncle Bob and will still continue with this new patch. In Albion, there was a witch hunt against new players and here it will happen again. I do not know exactly if the DEVs will want to create a game where new players feel systematically persecuted and leave the CF like in ShadowBane. This will happen easily if players can spy  without countermeasures.

If you are a new player you will have to choose between entering a small guild and being trampled or trying to enter a large guild and being rejected for both the lack of exp and the suspicion of espionage.

When a game forces you to join a guild and you do not know if a new char is really a new player or a spy, it creates a very hostile environment for true new players and will be segregated with the suspicion of being spies. 

This scenario will force players to form large groups that will be so large that a single spy will not cause significant damage, but this creates the same CN situation in Shadowbane and PVP will become less and less frequent as many players will be needed for any attack on large guilds.

Edited by hamon

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You won't be able to stop spying with second accounts, but I feel the concern about it, specifically regarding the implications to newer players, is overblown.

It appears that new solo players will have options besides jumping into a Dregs campaign.  With Faction RvR they already have an alliance with other players and there is talk of a campaign which could be like a COOP against an ever increasing AI Mob population.  So @hamon scenario is generally invalid as I do not see a mass of newbie solo players jumping into the Dregs.

It's not rocket science ... you or your group gates in and you see Zyback3 or another toon sitting on the gate....  First, there is little point in wasting a gank group or solo gankers time chasing down some new player.  What's the point.  Secondly, regardless of spies, your merry little band of harvesters will need appropriate security to avoid getting surprised.  That's just part of the game and its not too hard to avoid problems with a bit of planning.

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15 hours ago, hamon said:

In my opinion the player should be able to do everything in the game through a respec/multispec system only available to players who have premium. Simple and secure.

Can you elaborate on this?

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The issue of spies via alt accounts is definitely there and I really don't think anyone has a clear way out of it. Devs can make a rule that it is not allowed, but enforcing such a rule is next to impossible.

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My guild comes from a game where the concept was very similar, except that spies were even more of an issue because guilds were character bound instead of account bound like they are here. There is at least one other guild in Crowfall that came over from that game. They spied on us, we spied on them. We had measures in place for intelligence and counterintelligence, and we even had multiple information dump sandboxes set up.

What we learned from the whole experience is that you can't stop spies, no matter how much effort you put toward it. You can very easily, however, cause yourself problems by going overboard, some of which have already been mentioned in this thread. Instead, it makes more sense to just embrace that there will be spies and operate under the assumption that there are spies in your guild, in your voice comms, and even in your group in the field. Take comfort in that last one being the most difficult for a spy to do effectively without being caught.

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5 hours ago, Thimble said:

What we learned from the whole experience is that you can't stop spies, no matter how much effort you put toward it. You can very easily, however, cause yourself problems by going overboard, some of which have already been mentioned in this thread. Instead, it makes more sense to just embrace that there will be spies and operate under the assumption that there are spies in your guild, in your voice comms, and even in your group in the field.

Agree with this. Even if there was some magic solution to get rid of spys alts, you would still be best served to assume there is an enemy stealther scout nearby watching your group if you are at any known point of interest (and have a reaction plan).

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in looking back on my statement I was wrong to use anyone's name in a subject and I apologize to Acex, he's not a spy as was brought to my attention, it was another character in another faction with a similar name. sorry for being a jerk!.  there has been some interesting reply's to my posts thank you all.

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On 1/27/2019 at 1:42 AM, miraluna said:

Agree with this. Even if there was some magic solution to get rid of spys alts, you would still be best served to assume there is an enemy stealther scout nearby watching your group if you are at any known point of interest (and have a reaction plan).

winterblades was doing some ml farming and we had a stealther in the area who let me know and i got a group to quickly go gank them, order had a stealther in the area too and also decided ganking was a good idea, was a 3 way gank and we both arrived at the same time and both independently decided to ignore each other until W was dead, so far one of my favorite pvp moments

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