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InfernusDL

Still Impossible 1v1 against Champions...

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7 hours ago, PaleOne said:

I killed a Champ today 1 v 1...

Well a few Mobs helped :)

 

They aren't unkillable anymore!

musta been level 1 :P cause u dont do much dmg atm :D took u so long to kill my naked knight yesterday :P


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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4 hours ago, veeshan said:

musta been level 1 :P cause u dont do much dmg atm :D took u so long to kill my naked knight yesterday :P

but i killed him! :)

 


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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On 1/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, mandalore said:

CF healers underperform at self healing.  It’s impossible to rescue yourself and rescues are giant, game changing heals.  So saying champions out self heal healers isn’t that shocking to me.

There's something completely wrong with a non-healer, self healing better than a healer. To say otherwise is just inane. Let's just remove healers and give everyone that kind of sustain then. Healer don't have great damage, don't have great self healing, get less support power than non healing classes. Once upon a time it was stated they didn't want firehose healing. Then went and broke champions giving them ridiculous self-sustain. I don't think many people would be fine with "this is intended" argument, as shown by the non-stop posts to the contrary about Champions.

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24 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

There's something completely wrong with a non-healer, self healing better than a healer. To say otherwise is just inane. Let's just remove healers and give everyone that kind of sustain then. Healer don't have great damage, don't have great self healing, get less support power than non healing classes. Once upon a time it was stated they didn't want firehose healing. Then went and broke champions giving them ridiculous self-sustain. I don't think many people would be fine with "this is intended" argument, as shown by the non-stop posts to the contrary about Champions.

Healers needing other healers isn't "completely wrong".  Healers lacking self sustain but still being able to heal other people is a solid strategy imo as it means I can't just stand there as a healer and damage sponge your damage ad nauseam.  The only heal I can't target myself with (on a cleric) are discipline based rescues (by far the strongest single target heals in the game) and that's okay. 

As for champions being broken and op and strong; you're right.  They are very strong, they def need an extensive balance pass and they will get that but is that more important than server performance?  Nope.  Is champions in game  balance more important than working on 5.9, 6.0, guilds, frostweaver, dregs, banking, hunger, mob ai, crafting 2.0?  Nope.  They will fix it but until then we have a skewed testing environment and honestly that's okay as long as they keep pushing the game forward. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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I cut down several Pitfighter champs on my titan myrm pre patch. They don't have much in the way of CC to make a Myrm crash and the Myrm dmg is high enough to cut through all their heals. Whether or not that is still the case this patch after the weapon nerf I'm not sure I haven't gone toe to toe with one yet this patch. 

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2 minutes ago, mandalore said:

As for champions being broken and op and strong; you're right.  They are very strong, they def need an extensive balance pass and they will get that but is that more important than server performance?  Nope.  Is champions in game  balance more important than working on 5.9, 6.0, guilds, frostweaver, dregs, banking, hunger, mob ai, crafting 2.0?  Nope.  They will fix it but until then we have a skewed testing environment and honestly that's okay as long as they keep pushing the game forward. 

Agree 100%

Balance passes will likely be a focus issue for late alpha & all through beta. For a pre-alpha that we can actually play and call a game while we test, all we need is a barely functional game loop, even if there are gross imbalances and obvious QoL issues.

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4 minutes ago, blazzen said:

I cut down several Pitfighter champs on my titan myrm pre patch. They don't have much in the way of CC to make a Myrm crash and the Myrm dmg is high enough to cut through all their heals. Whether or not that is still the case this patch after the weapon nerf I'm not sure I haven't gone toe to toe with one yet this patch. 

It is,myrm can go through the IW barrier with one basic.

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9 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Healers needing other healers isn't "completely wrong".  Healers lacking self sustain but still being able to heal other people is a solid strategy imo as it means I can't just stand there as a healer and damage sponge your damage ad nauseam.  The only heal I can't target myself with (on a cleric) are discipline based rescues (by far the strongest single target heals in the game) and that's okay. 

As for champions being broken and op and strong; you're right.  They are very strong, they def need an extensive balance pass and they will get that but is that more important than server performance?  Nope.  Is champions in game  balance more important than working on 5.9, 6.0, guilds, frostweaver, dregs, banking, hunger, mob ai, crafting 2.0?  Nope.  They will fix it but until then we have a skewed testing environment and honestly that's okay as long as they keep pushing the game forward. 

Not sure why you said the first part. I said there is something completely wrong with a non-healer, self-healing better than a healer. This doesn't mean I think a healer should be unkillable as long as they sit there popping heals on themselves. It means there is something wrong with a non-healer, getting that kind of self sustain that even a healer, who has access to far more heals can't even do [and rightly so]. 

As to the 2nd part. False dichotomy fallacy. You're assuming the people fixing server performance is the Champion class lead. This is a popular argument people like to use, as if they have some kind of insider knowledge on which resources are allocated where, and thus it's not important for X thing to be looked at. Further, Champions have had patches and patches to be looked at, there was never really a time they didn't pump out stupid heals. Yet patch after patch, here we stand on Champion healing. There will always be something more important in someone mind that needs to be looked at first, to push back a needed to the next patch and the next. You know what I have learned after many years of playing MMOs? That you need to be constantly pushing for these changes NOW, not LATER because developers have show time and again people advocating the need for these changes will be ignored through alpha, then beta, next thing you know it's live and people are like WTF? And the old testers are like, "welp we been asking for this since pre-alpha, alpha and beta and they have ignored us." Then finally, when people say custard the state of this game and just quit... developers will finally start listening (if at all)  and try to do something. Too little, too late. Damage is done.

Battle for Azeroth and all the trash of that whole expansion and this hope for 8.1 and then 8.2 to fix these things is a shining example of this in play.

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4 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

 there is something completely wrong with a non-healer, self-healing better than a healer.

No there isn't, a healer can heal multiple targets,it is useful in more situations than a self heal.If i as a champ am not getting focus, my self heal is nothing but a healer can heal anyone in the party that has lower hp.

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1 minute ago, Navystylz said:

You're assuming the people fixing server performance is the Champion class lead.

You're assuming there actually is a champion class lead, as if this were released game.

At this stage of development, balance between classes should not be something that ACE allows themselves to get hung up on. They need all hands working on getting core elements added, fixing what does not work at all, and getting server performance issues and gross optimization errors resolved.

Once they have frozen design for the game elements that will be included at release, and have all of them working, then they will deal with tuning.

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2 minutes ago, VaMei said:

You're assuming there actually is a champion class lead, as if this were released game.

At this stage of development, balance between classes should not be something that ACE allows themselves to get hung up on. They need all hands working on getting core elements added, fixing what does not work at all, and getting server performance issues and gross optimization errors resolved.

Once they have frozen design for the game elements that will be included at release, and have all of them working, then they will deal with tuning.

They've already mention before there are leads to these classes. Why would you think the class would be built, and then a lead happens later? There needs to be a SME on that class because they are building all the functionality of that class with performance and balancing in mind. Whether there are multiple per person, etc doesn't matter. The point is the assumption that the engineers doing a deep dive on performance are the same people on classes. It most likely isn't. They brought extra people to help with optimization and performance AND they have even joked about this very idea in development when they have mentioned how things were being done. Which is why I said there is always something more important that needs to be done first, in other's eyes. 

First,  I never said drop everything and fix Champions. I said that Champions have always had too much healing. And all these patches later nothing has changed. So saying 5.9, and 6.0 needs to do other things, is only pushing this further out. Also, 6.0 is supposed to be a powers and discipline pass as well as introduction to Frostweaver, so I imagine this is where we will see meaty changes anyhow. 

Optimization isn't something that happens in one patch and you're good to go. This will be constantly worked on, especially as new stuff is added. Changing classes, especially with new abilities, how things work, etc will affect optimization. If you think some major optimization can happen (especially when classes and their abilities are some major contributing factors of poor performance), then major class changes without needing to tweak optimization, well I doubt that's gonna happen.

TL;DR I never said drop what's going on and fix Champions. I said that these things should be constantly mentioned at all levels of development, because often what's said in today's alpha is said by many other players live, and developers finally make changes too late. 

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1 hour ago, Navystylz said:

TL;DR I never said drop what's going on and fix Champions. I said that these things should be constantly mentioned at all levels of development, because often what's said in today's alpha is said by many other players live, and developers finally make changes too late. 

I agree with that. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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