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Pann

The Strategy Game - Official discussion thread

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Blazzen of Lords of Death shares his thoughts on the strategic pros and cons of the capture point system in today's guest article. 

FULL STORY

On Thursday, January 31, at 11 am CST, Crowfall Creative Director J. Todd Coleman will lead a live chat on this topic in the Official Crowfall Discord with @blazzen , @Angelmar (Winterblades) and DravoiX (Horizon). We hope you’ll join us!

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I think the game system to direct the player so that he interacts more with others is quite valid. There is a very good system where the player could have a quest given by the gods that would give many faction points (after all we are champions of the Gods) for him to enter a certain battle and spread the strength of the faction, limiting the server overload in battles. Something more subtle and realistic rather than immune.

Edited by hamon

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2 hours ago, Pann said:

On Thursday, January 31, at 11 am CST, Crowfall Creative Director J. Todd Coleman will lead a live chat on this topic in the Official Crowfall Discord with @blazzen , @Angelmar (Winterblades) and DravoiX (Horizon). We hope you’ll join us!

so is that going to be streamed on twitch [for later youtube] or are people might to 'join' the server to take part 'in the moment' only?

Edited by Tinnis

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1. The "issue" of "night capping" is something people just need to get the custard over. There will be players that don't play when you do, and their time is just as valuable as yours. Nothing you do should count more towards victory because of when it occurs and I'm against any mechanic that forces that to be so.

2. I'm also against any more mechanics that determine what locations/objectives are and aren't available to attack. If you don't want your enemy taking a fort when it's empty and you're online then you should plant your ass in that fort and stop them from taking it. It'd also be super annoying to have my choices narrowed to a couple of locations, all relayed to my enemies via the map, in which overwhelming forces can just be sat in knowing my choices are to either get steamrolled or decide not to PvP.

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I'm thinking the outposts should be linked, so you could cut off the supply lines and eliminate points the other side would get. Also to take a fort or keep, one outpost from the runegate up to the keep or fort would need to be taken. That way, people might be able to see them coming as outposts start to get taken.

Also, the ones closer to your runegate become more valued, or if you wanted to go deep in the opposing land to take outposts next to their runegate, you could do more damage until the zerg comes to quench their thirst.

Edited by Silverback

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15 minutes ago, moneda said:

There will be players that don't play when you do, and their time is just as valuable as yours. 

Actually, their time is often more valuable than yours. They can cap stuff and expect to hold it for longer because there are fewer players on to backcap it right after.

Similar to how harvesting during off-hours tends to be more productive because there is less competition.

Edited by Jah

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really like the idea at the end about being able to capture points to respawn at. It would mean that maintaining a large front would become more difficult the larger a faction spreads and would help the ever-so-feared "Uncle Bob" problem. It would be a tactical incentive without any actual tangible rewards (good for any strategy game), and once tweaked, could really be balanced well around the timer on death shroud. 

Great read. 

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18 minutes ago, Jah said:

Actually, their time is often more valuable than yours. They can cap stuff and expect to hold it for longer because there are fewer players on to backcap it right after.

Similar to how harvesting during off-hours tends to be more productive because there is less competition.

I agree with everything Jah says here. 

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22 minutes ago, Jah said:

Actually, their time is often more valuable than yours. They can cap stuff and expect to hold it for longer because there are fewer players on to backcap it right after.

Similar to how harvesting during off-hours tends to be more productive because there is less competition.

I have to agree with moneda. Accomplishing the same tasks in a set amount of time should be rewarded the same no matter what time frame the player logs in and plays. I understand your point, but 2 hours of my time is as valuable, not more or less then 2 hours of your time. Please don't advocate restricting my points when I play at 1-4am. If the server is dead I sort of feel that I am already being punished. 

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36 minutes ago, Jah said:

Actually, their time is often more valuable than yours.

Nah, the value is the same because they're treated equally in point evaluation and distribution; however long one "expects" territory to remain under their influence or control is irrelevant.

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23 minutes ago, moneda said:

Nah, the value is the same because they're treated equally in point evaluation and distribution; however long one "expects" territory to remain under their influence or control is irrelevant.

I get where you're coming from in principle but as a practical matter, is it better to piss off a minority of players or a majority of players. The way I see it, if the developers don't do anything to mitigate "night capping" then they stand to lose more players than if they did nothing.

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38 minutes ago, moneda said:

Nah, the value is the same because they're treated equally in point evaluation and distribution; however long one "expects" territory to remain under their influence or control is irrelevant.

If you capture a fort and people are slow to take it back because the population is low during off-hours, that means you do get more points from it. As for whether or not "expectation" is relevant, I think you are getting hung up on just one definition of expectation. I'm not talking about the state of mind of the person who captures the point, I am talking about the probability that it will be quickly back-capped. The probability that someone will quickly back-cap after you capture it goes up with higher population.

Edited by Jah

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52 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Accomplishing the same tasks in a set amount of time should be rewarded the same no matter what time frame the player logs in and plays.

If it takes longer, on average, for someone to back-cap what you capture during off-hours, doesn't that mean you are getting a bigger reward for off-hours captures?

I'm not "advocating" anything. I'm just questioning whether it is true that off-hours captures are rewarded the same as prime-time captures in practice.

In my personal experience, captures that I do at 4 am are much more likely to stay captured for several hours.

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1 hour ago, moneda said:

Nah, the value is the same because they're treated equally in point evaluation and distribution; however long one "expects" territory to remain under their influence or control is irrelevant.

Not how time works. Depending on the time I go to work, I could either hit traffic or not, differentiating the value I get out of my time in the distance I cover depending on what time it is. Same applies here. Not all time is equal when talking about finite space/resources.

 

And, from a gameplay perspective, why encourage a way of playing that exists to avoid PvP?

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I wouldn't mind aligning Night and Day with the night and day of the server, make playing at night fundementally different than playing during the day. More Hunger creatures spawn, a "Cold" debuff that can be warded off by a campfire or torch (but makes you more visible in turn), and such things so that while nightcapping is still more PvP and backcap safe (gaining greater value), it is also more perilous with PvE survival elements.

 

Just throwing ideas out there.

 

I do see issue with the idea that it will lock some people into a certain environment (Night/Day) depending on what hours they can play, so that'd have to be figured out.

Edited by Dondagora

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Another idea, I think, is attaching outposts/towers points to the keeps/forts. An outpost will send a pack animal and a guard to the nearest ally fort/keep and only once that reaches its destination will the points be cashed in. All the while, PvE mobs will wear down these caravans so that the further a camp is from a keep makes it less likely to cash in any points unless the road is somewhat guarded.

 

At the least, it reduces the issue to the nightcapping of forts which act as the cash-in points.

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I think Blazen has some good ideas here... that said, some comments ...

I am not sure about the concept of fort vulnerability.  While it may serve to focus the combat, it also removes the strategic element of deciding what forts a side wishes to attack.  We already have the bonus capture points so a side already knows what forts are priority defense.  One thing that could be considered is revamping the warning system.  Rather than a message when a wall goes down, consider a system that messages and shows the fort threatened if X enemy players are within Y distance of the fort.  This provides a bit more opportunity to respond to an attack.  As an example, this evening we attacked a fort and the defenders did show up but it was too late.  Another few minutes of warning and there would have been a better fight there.

I think the contribution of outpost points seems about right and should not be adjusted to play a lesser role in point scoring.

I favor more mechanics that result in more choke points that must be taken to progress further into the map as opposed to free roam and free port in mechanics.

 

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