Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Recommended Posts

At a high level, my question is, how alt-friendly is this game going to be?  If there are a lot of classes, then I want to play them all, not just pick one and stick with it forever.  In a lot of games, that means that I level slowly because I split time among so many characters.  In PVE that's fine.  In PVP, months of mostly dying because I'm too weak to be competitive is not fine.

Crowfall apparently has skills that you level on the basis of real-life time passed.  It also has some such skills that are specific to the class and possibly specific to the race.  Does that mean that you have to pick a single race/class combination and stick with it so that you max the skills in it, and would be horribly gimped if you split skills among many classes?

As it was a while ago, there was going to be a VIP system to allow you to level skills from more skill trees (but not more skills from the same tree) simultaneously, but my understanding is that that was scrapped.  I've seen it asserted elsewhere that different character slots would level their skills independently, so you could have a character slot for a ranger, one for a druid, and one for a champion, and all level their own skill trees independently at full speed.  I've also seen it asserted elsewhere that that's not the case and all skills leveled based on real-life time passed are account-wide.

So what is the current situation?  I get that leveling characters from 1-30 repeatedly in the same campaign would slow you down.  But would someone who wants to be a ranger in this campaign and a myrmidon in his next campaign and then a templar in the campaign after that be gimped because of account-wide skills on all of them?  Or are the race and class skills not account-wide in the first place?

Or for that matter, is it possible to create a combat-focused character and also a crafting-focused character on the same account, without either of them being gimped due to account-wide skills?  I could get a crafting-focused character being bad at combat, but if being a crafter means that your whole account must be bad at combat, that's a different problem entirely.

Obviously, it's possible to have independent account-wide skill trees by having multiple accounts.  Apparently there are people who do that in EVE, which uses a somewhat similar skill tree system.  But that's like charging $50 per character slot, which would be an awful lot of money.  $50 to buy a box isn't a problem for me, but if you're going to multiply that by 11 classes to be able to play them all, that's an awful lot of money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the changes we are testing in the 5.8 build:

- All of the passive skill trees for Race and Class training got moved into the new talent trees that you progress with the active leveling + Divine Sacrifice system. Each Vessel (character) levels to 30 through XP gain, and you get talent points and stats to distribute at each level. 

- The account-wide passive training is now only for the 3 profession areas. Each player (nonVIP and VIP) can choose 2 lines to train out of combat, crafting, or exploration. Each tree starts out with basics and then gets more specialized, with diminishing returns as you train deeper into the trees.

- Currently in the 5.8 testing we have 6 open slots for Vessels (characters) and an additional 3 that are locked.

Crowfall is very alt friendly, assuming you have the time to invest in playing multiple characters. In addition to the active leveling and the passive training, you will also want to get some quality gear (armor, weapons, accessories, crafted vessel, discipline runes) customized to your character's specialization. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To address your specific questions/concerns, no, you will not be gimped if you do both crafting and combat on the same account. You can dedicate one of your skill training options to crafting and the other to combat. Even if you don't train in combat and instead do crafting and exploration, you still wouldn't be too bad off in combat since a very large portion of combat power comes from abilities and gear. There is no limit to the amount of skills you can learn, so eventually you can be trained in all 3 spheres.

All skill training is account wide, so they will apply to every character on that account. As miraluna said, they removed the class and race skills, so the only skills that are class dependent are some of the later armor and weapon trees. For example, there are skill trees for each type of armor (leather, mail and plate). If you train in plate and have a character who can't use plate, then obviously you aren't going to get the benefit of those skills. If you train in 2-handed melee weapons and play on a cleric (throwing hammer is ranged), you won't get the benefit of those skills.

Leveling a vessel is quick, especially if it's a default common vessel. Crafted vessels require more XP dependent on the quality. You can level a common vessel in a few hours by killing mobs and sacrificing the gold you get from them. If you already have enough gold to sacrifice, you can level up in minutes (you can only sacrifice for 1 level at a time, which slows it down, but it will probably be improved in the future to reduce the time even further). So, you can have as many alts as you have character slots and level them all up pretty quickly if you want. 

The hardest part will be getting disciplines. Right now we can craft them all for minimal cost and we can switch them out as often as we want. In the future, disciplines will be locked to your vessel once you equip them. If you want to use different disciplines, you'll need to level up a new vessel/character. Disciplines will also be harder to get. Some will be crafted, some sold by vendors, and some will come from drops. At least some of the drop locations will be contested, I'm sure, as they were in Shadowbane. I would imagine that at some point, most disciplines will be easy to acquire if you have enough gold to buy it from another player, but in the early game you'll have to do more work to get them.

And of course, if you are playing multiple characters, you'll need gear for each. I would highly recommend that you get 1 character to level 30 and geared before you spend too much time on other characters. You might want to experiment with different races/classes early on, which is fine, but once you find one you like, get it leveled and geared. It will be easier for you to get gold, which you can then use to level your other characters. If you start with a crafter, you can set up a vendor in your faction temple or in the free city and make money that way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am curious how the "connected accounts" will play into this.

1 hour ago, Arkade said:

And of course, if you are playing multiple characters, you'll need gear for each. I would highly recommend that you get 1 character to level 30 and geared before you spend too much time on other characters. You might want to experiment with different races/classes early on, which is fine, but once you find one you like, get it leveled and geared. It will be easier for you to get gold, which you can then use to level your other characters. If you start with a crafter, you can set up a vendor in your faction temple or in the free city and make money that way. 

"You might want to experiment with different races/classes early on" prior to launch is good for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/7/2019 at 12:47 AM, miraluna said:

Each player (nonVIP and VIP) can choose 2 lines to train out of combat, crafting, or exploration.

So if now all players can train 2 lines, including non VIP, what is the benefit of VIP then?  Am I missing something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Grillo said:

So if now all players can train 2 lines, including non VIP, what is the benefit of VIP then?  Am I missing something?

Currently, there is no benefit to VIP, since so many people were complaining about perceived pay to win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Grillo said:

So if now all players can train 2 lines, including non VIP, what is the benefit of VIP then?  Am I missing something?

14 minutes ago, Grillo said:

So if now all players can train 2 lines, including non VIP, what is the benefit of VIP then?  Am I missing something?

Still to be decided. 

ACE approached the third pass on passive skills with the philosophy of "If money was not a issue, how would we like to build this?".  Thus, they cut all player power from VIP. 

I would expect cosmetics, maybe some EK relics, server priority, the ability to lock your EK open, and that sort of thing.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

Currently, there is no benefit to VIP, since so many people were complaining about perceived pay to win.

I will assume that this will change right?  I received two months of VIP with my package and I really like the idea of passive training.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Grillo said:

I will assume that this will change right?  I received two months of VIP with my package and I really like the idea of passive training.

 

ACE said they were going back to the drawing board to figure out what VIP will offer. I'm guessing it will be something like vessel slots, ability to join more campaigns, cosmetics, stuff like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grillo said:

I will assume that this will change right?  I received two months of VIP with my package and I really like the idea of passive training.

It's likely that VIP will still be able to bank more time than non-VIP. So if you don't log in for a week because you are on vacation, no big deal, but a non-VIP will max out in 3 days and then not gain any more points until they spend the ones they have accumulated.

Maybe that plan has changed too, I don't know for sure. They have also talked in the past about VIP players getting discounts in the cash shop and priority access to campaigns. They have also mentioned the possibility of being able to update skills from a website rather than having to log into the game.

Maybe they'll give VIP players free skins for weapons or races or whatever. I'm sure they'll think of something. It won't be worthless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/6/2019 at 11:35 PM, Quizzical said:

At a high level, my question is, how alt-friendly is this game going to be?  If there are a lot of classes, then I want to play them all, not just pick one and stick with it forever.  In a lot of games, that means that I level slowly because I split time among so many characters.  In PVE that's fine.  In PVP, months of mostly dying because I'm too weak to be competitive is not fine.

Crowfall apparently has skills that you level on the basis of real-life time passed.  It also has some such skills that are specific to the class and possibly specific to the race.  Does that mean that you have to pick a single race/class combination and stick with it so that you max the skills in it, and would be horribly gimped if you split skills among many classes?

As it was a while ago, there was going to be a VIP system to allow you to level skills from more skill trees (but not more skills from the same tree) simultaneously, but my understanding is that that was scrapped.  I've seen it asserted elsewhere that different character slots would level their skills independently, so you could have a character slot for a ranger, one for a druid, and one for a champion, and all level their own skill trees independently at full speed.  I've also seen it asserted elsewhere that that's not the case and all skills leveled based on real-life time passed are account-wide.

So what is the current situation?  I get that leveling characters from 1-30 repeatedly in the same campaign would slow you down.  But would someone who wants to be a ranger in this campaign and a myrmidon in his next campaign and then a templar in the campaign after that be gimped because of account-wide skills on all of them?  Or are the race and class skills not account-wide in the first place?

Or for that matter, is it possible to create a combat-focused character and also a crafting-focused character on the same account, without either of them being gimped due to account-wide skills?  I could get a crafting-focused character being bad at combat, but if being a crafter means that your whole account must be bad at combat, that's a different problem entirely.

Obviously, it's possible to have independent account-wide skill trees by having multiple accounts.  Apparently there are people who do that in EVE, which uses a somewhat similar skill tree system.  But that's like charging $50 per character slot, which would be an awful lot of money.  $50 to buy a box isn't a problem for me, but if you're going to multiply that by 11 classes to be able to play them all, that's an awful lot of money.

One thing you should know, when you get so far into the combat skill tree, you have to make decisions. Eventually you will have to decide the specific armor you want to train up, such as leather, mail, or plate. You will also have to decide whether to train into range or melee and then from there 1h melee, great melee or 1h range and great range. Of course eventually with enough time, you will be able to fill up all of those skill trees. As for your question on being alt friendly, it is to an extent. You can still play all the classes. You just wont be as strong if you're training into plate/great melee, and you want to play a leather confessor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the replies.  I hadn't considered the reality that even if not explicitly associated with a particular race or class, some skills will simply be more useful to some races or classes than others.  It simply isn't going to be possible for someone playing a lot of different things to be as good at all of them as someone who specializes his whole account-wide skill choices to focus exclusively on only one.  So in that sense, having multiple accounts with independent skill leveling choices will always offer an advantage.

That leaves open the question of just how big of an advantage, though.  I'd customarily be skeptical of any claims that something is an advantage in PVP, but not really that big of an advantage, on the basis that if they don't want for it to be an advantage, why create it at all?  But in this case, they might well genuinely not want for playing several accounts to be an advantage.  I can see how it's a natural result of their skill training system, and they might well try to minimize it.

There's also the likelihood that having more accounts will have harshly diminishing returns.  It seems likely that it would be a considerable advantage to, for example, have one account that completely ignores crafting and also another account that is a pure crafter.  But it also seems likely that this will come on harshly diminishing returns.  For example, the benefits to adding an eighth account as opposed to "only" having seven might well be awfully slim, and perhaps even outweighed by the hassle of it.

A lot of the details surely aren't in the game yet.  I'll probably have to wait until the game is much closer to launch and then have a look to see how they're going to handle this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...