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Zatch

Duelist 5.8 Feedback

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Some feedback for the duelist for 5.8.2. I generally play rapier and this feedback is mostly related to the melee variant of the class.

From my perspective the Duelist isn't fun to play in its current iteration. This stems from a few changes coming in the new talent trees, insane ramp up time, and cool down increases on base class abilities.

The new talent trees are a welcome addition to Crowfall, but they feel half baked as implemented. An easy example of this can be seen in the ability for Flintlock Shot to reset its cool down being tied into the slayer tree versus a class passive. For me this was an interesting mechanic that added some variety to the Duelists DPS. The other two Duelist lines cannot get that reset, and as a result lose that extra class mechanic in exchange for nothing. Talent trees should enhance the base classes not cut and stitch parts from one to make three.

Having armor type tied into the talent trees is also an issue. Currently Plate is a requirement for any combat over 10vs10. Leather wearers die not only to fast, but the extra damage compensation is nowhere near what Plate brings to the table. This results in being forced to play as a Dirge to even have a chance of surviving large group combat on a Duelist. Armor should be a playstyle choice not a requirement.

Duelists have a crazy ramp up time to do alright damage. Here is a typical setup: Ambush for 2 combo points>use flintlock>basic attack>sacrifice a goat to get good RNG>Inconceivable>basic attack>basic attack>basic attack>basic attack>basic attack>Pepperbox Shot>Flintlock Shot>basic attack>basic attack>basic attack>Impale.

That’s 14 GCDs to get your one hard hitting ability off that has to crit to do good damage. No other class in the game has this large of a ramp up time, and is entirely dependent on RNG multiple times in the damage cycle. Combining this with staying alive, and the Duelist feels shackled. Ramp up/momentum classes are fun, but-for the Duelist-it takes to long and doesn’t last long enough.

The change to the skill Tunnel neuters the Duelist. I can’t play a scout on the character, and my ability to make plays in forts has been diminished to the point its non existent. This is honestly the single biggest change that's ruined my enjoyment of the game since backing the Kickstarter. It doesn’t need to be an 8 second cd, but 25 is too damn long; 12-18 would be a decent sweetspot. 

 

Overall the class feels awful this patch. As someone who loved the Duelist and played it exclusively all of 5.5-5.7, I find the class to be disappointingly unplayable and will be switching to other classes moving forward.

Edited by Zatch
Clarity?

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Agree.

Most classes have much better survivability that Duelist because they have access to heal, life leech or heavy armor.
Most classes except healers have better DPS that Duelist. There are tanks that have better damage and utility than Duelists.

Duelist is currently reduced to an extremely long wind-up to do okay, and it only has 1-2 really useful skill. (pepperbox and Impale.... or only pepperbox if you play slayer)

Even with great gear and buffs, you only do 400-1200 damages on a dummy every 6 attacks. Being limited to Crushing Damage, it is particularly low in a real situation and you'll be limited to a couple hundreds of damages at best. There are tank classes with twice the average damage.

So... low health, low survivability, low DPS, low utility... and unplayable during big fights. Anyone who says otherwise has never played a Duelist. This is why:

The camera.

The camera is so low you cannot see whether you are aiming at friends or foe, nor estimate distances. Agent provocateur is your best discipline because it's the only one with a heal, yet you cannot see where you are aiming the stink bomb or caltrops.
Whoever designed the guinecean/duelist forgot to check it for one of the major activities this game has to offer.

Edited by Gaulwa

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13 minutes ago, Gaulwa said:

So... low health, low survivability, low DPS, low utility... and unplayable during big fights. Anyone who says otherwise has never played a Duelist. This is why:

The camera.

The camera angle has really turned me away from the race/class. Which should be a rather simple adjustment to make more enjoyable.

Beyond that, the class needs some love as do many, be it the base or promos.

Was really hoping for more GW2 Thief where using dual pistols, only melee, or one of each would make a different play style, unlock different powers, or at least adjust the base ones to compliment the role.

As is, they crammed everything into one bar and too much is situational or requires XYZ while not providing much in return. 

If Duelist are supposed to gank new players, I guess they'll do that okay.

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Are you exposing them before attacking? After going around ganking over the weekend, I realized a good portion of the damage and cc is tied to getting the expose on them through recon.

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25 minutes ago, Ardeath said:

Are you exposing them before attacking? After going around ganking over the weekend, I realized a good portion of the damage and cc is tied to getting the expose on them through recon.

Which is okay in a ganking or 1v1 situation as the target likely is at a disadvantage anyway and the ganker could be most classes.

Beyond that, good luck exposing someone in a mass of bodies and keeping focus on them, especially with the camera angle.

Would be interesting to have an AOE expose like a flare that would allow multiple targets to receive addition damage/effects from classes that benefit from exposed state.

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14 hours ago, Ardeath said:

Are you exposing them before attacking? After going around ganking over the weekend, I realized a good portion of the damage and cc is tied to getting the expose on them through recon.

As APE mentioned, exposing is difficult and short-lived. It's almost impossible to focus a target in a group fight because you do not have the possibility to get close and the camera angle makes it impossible to target anyone in the back.

Expose also requires you to be stealthed, which is a pain to return from the combat stance, and almost impossible in group fights with the amount of AoE and detection. So no refresh for you unless you use Plague Lord.


Also, what does expose exactly do for a slayer? You get an extra pip and damage on flintlock and guaranteed critical on the weak Go For Broke.
Does it have another effect I am not aware of?

Edited by Gaulwa

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On 2/19/2019 at 1:22 AM, Gaulwa said:

As APE mentioned, exposing is difficult and short-lived. It's almost impossible to focus a target in a group fight because you do not have the possibility to get close and the camera angle makes it impossible to target anyone in the back.

Expose also requires you to be stealthed, which is a pain to return from the combat stance, and almost impossible in group fights with the amount of AoE and detection. So no refresh for you unless you use Plague Lord.


Also, what does expose exactly do for a slayer? You get an extra pip and damage on flintlock and guaranteed critical on the weak Go For Broke.
Does it have another effect I am not aware of?

Expose seems like it is supposed to be more impactful than it really ends up being. It offers a KD as long as the target is using an ability, which would theoretically be pretty impactful, taken out of context for how zerg vs zerg actually plays out. Though, it might not be the intention for these classes to have any part in large scale battles.

One suggestion I would make would be to provide expose on the rapier finisher for targets below 50% health. As is, you won't have much expose uptime in a big battle, and expose punishing a single target is hardly making much of a difference in a sea of CC and retaliates that directly counter any active and sustained engagement on this class, if this is to be an intended part of the Duelist's role.

IMO, expose functions better as a secondary effect in the anti-stealth kits than it does as an active standalone ability among the stealther's toolkit.

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