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GrumpyOldBulldog

Why choose Archer over Brigand?

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I leveled up an Elken Archer and Elken Brigand on the test server to see the difference.  Both seemed to do about the same damage with the Bow.  Looking at the stats, Brigand had much more Attack Power (440 vs 215) but Archer had a little better armor penetration but for the most part were identical stats including identical Final Damage Modifiers.  

The only noticeable Archer advantage I could tell was the increased range (and Call Fire Passive didn't seem to be working for me).

Noticeable Brigand advantages were stronger melee attacks and more and better traps and stealth.

Archer was running Arcane Archer and Sharpshooter.
Brigand was running Sharpshooter and Blade Master.

Are there other advantages to the Archer that I'm missing?   
 

Edited by GrumpyOldBulldog

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11 minutes ago, GrumpyOldBulldog said:

I leveled up an Elken Archer and Elken Brigand on the test server to see the difference.  Both seemed to do about the same damage with the Bow.  Looking at the stats, Brigand had much more Attack Power (440 vs 215) but Archer had a little better armor penetration but for the most part were identical stats including identical Final Damage Modifiers.  

The only noticeable Archer advantage I could tell was the increased range (and Call Fire Passive didn't seem to be working for me).

Noticeable Brigand advantages were stronger melee attacks and more and better traps and stealth.

Archer was running Arcane Archer and Sharpshooter.
Brigand was running Sharpshooter and Blade Master.

Are there other advantages to the Archer that I'm missing?   
 

Ranger Bridgand is one of the classes I am planning to play just for the stealth.  I have not played this game yet but stealth is usually very powerful in PVP.  How is the Brigand stealth?  Any time or movement limitation?  If you are in combat and want to escape, I assume you have to run a little to get out of combat and activate stealth right?

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Brigand stealth is decent. 

From combat, you need to switch to your survival tray and then switch to your stealth tray.  takes a few seconds.  Probably better to initiate combat.  Stealth..get behind person, hit ambush to pop out of stealth and attack.  Drop some traps, leap back and switch to bow.  If they get close, switch to melee and slice them up or die trying :)

Like all stealth classes, if you take any damage, you get knocked out of stealth so a little harder for a Ranger to get into stealth but doable.  (or choose a wood-elf ranger with their 20m teleport.  hit that twice for 40m distance and switch to your survival tray while running and then hit your stealth tray and hope they don't get an AoE on you.

Movement speed is greatly reduced...kind of like walking speed.

If stealth is your thing, you'll want to also check out the Fae Assassin.  Best stealth class in the game.  Fast movement and very good at escaping and getting back into stealth...annoyingly so :)

Guinecean Duelsts are another great stealth class.  They burrow underground and move fairly quickly and have some nice traps/ambush they can do while remaining stealthed. 

 

but...to keep on topic, I'm looking for reasons to play an Archer and not a Brigand.   Lots of reasons to play the Brigand  :)

 

 

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Archer seems indeed lacking something that makes it feel special but one thing to keep in mind is the playstyle. Being full ranged is quite appealing to some and could be the deciding factor should both classes be equal.

Other thing is the disciplines Archer can free up with the full commitment. Did that Arcane archer make any difference?

And, lastly, I would like to think the focus on ranged will payoff in the future with stats, gear, and whatnot. Archer should excel in bow damage.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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1 hour ago, Grillo said:

Ranger Bridgand is one of the classes I am planning to play just for the stealth.  I have not played this game yet but stealth is usually very powerful in PVP.  How is the Brigand stealth?  Any time or movement limitation?  If you are in combat and want to escape, I assume you have to run a little to get out of combat and activate stealth right?

Brigand stealth is the worst of the 3 classes. It's very slow and hard to catch up to any target that is moving. Very much a soloist or to trap a choke point you know someone is about to cross with your traps. The booby traps passive can't be used in range, so you are stuck in melee til your traps hit--which is usually from stealth opener anyway. The bow is OK, but you shouldn't be focusing on being at range. Traps if they expire pull you from stealth. It can be cool, but I'm not a fan of stealth because how slow it is for most, and even on Fae Assassins gungho people attacking before you can make them aoe you out before the stealth trying to get in or catch up.

Getting out of combat to stealth again is as simple as clicking your button to swap to survival tray and then clicking stealth button. It's a bit broken again anyone without dots or an aoe. They also lack an ultimate that invulns and restealths from combat like Duelists and Assassins get.

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1 hour ago, GrumpyOldBulldog said:

I leveled up an Elken Archer and Elken Brigand on the test server to see the difference.  Both seemed to do about the same damage with the Bow.  Looking at the stats, Brigand had much more Attack Power (440 vs 215) but Archer had a little better armor penetration but for the most part were identical stats including identical Final Damage Modifiers.  

The only noticeable Archer advantage I could tell was the increased range (and Call Fire Passive didn't seem to be working for me).

Noticeable Brigand advantages were stronger melee attacks and more and better traps and stealth.

Archer was running Arcane Archer and Sharpshooter.
Brigand was running Sharpshooter and Blade Master.

Are there other advantages to the Archer that I'm missing?   
 

There is no reason to be Archer currently. You can achieve the exact same thing nearly but with much more powerful melee with Warden. Not sure how the Brigand wasn't noticing a difference with bow abilities. Warden is the hybrid between the 2 and would have balanced melee and range. Warden is also tankier and doesn't need stealth, but being a Wood Elf for camo and dissipate is the way to go.

Archer need some love. The new patch on test with disciplines will go a long way to helping it. Illusionist gives slows on the 3rd basic attack, and more dmg to slowed targets. And escape artist allows crits to restore dodge. Staying at range longer as a bow user will become much easier. I main Warden and balance melee with bow use quite well, except against the OP classes. Even then, these new changes to disciplines can help that more now. Rangers in general need a little love. Their range damage is a pittance compared to other range, even adding in the fact that you hybrid melee. Everyone else just gets more damage or more survivability with less work.

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10 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

Traps if they expire pull you from stealth.

 

Lol, that explains a lot!   I thought for sure some assassin was toying with me  :)

I haven't checked out any updated disciplines on Test yet.  Sounds like those may help a little bit at least.   

thanks
 

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On 2/11/2019 at 4:18 PM, veeshan said:

There no reason at all to pick archer how it is currently.

Well, looks like I'm stuck with Archer for now then.  With the way this incredibly lousy leveling system is right now, I really don't want to grind out a new toon.   :(

 

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1 hour ago, GrumpyOldBulldog said:

Well, looks like I'm stuck with Archer for now then.  With the way this incredibly lousy leveling system is right now, I really don't want to grind out a new toon.   :(

 

u wont be there a patch soon that resets ur talents coming, might be the one cming out right now potentially


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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yup, just saw that!!   

Now, do I do the right thing and switch to Brigand or be stubborn and pick Archer again hoping they will fix it soon?

 

 

Edited by GrumpyOldBulldog

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yep the patch is hapening right now that refresh ur skills so your lucky there LD

Spedc a brig in range if u want an archer its better :P


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Ok, I was stubborn..but with a reason...which screwed me again.

I had a Spellbound bow already made that I was using and, based on the Talents, it looked like the only way I could use it was selecting Archer. Doing that, I could use Sharpshooter to get my binding arrows and then pick something else fun.  So I went Archer and then tried to equip my bow.  Wouldn't let me.  It seems that I actually have to slot Arcane Archer to be able to equip it.  So, what's the point of Archer giving those options if all you need is the discipline?  (unless the other two rangers can't equip that bow even with the discipline).

So, I'm back to waiting patiently...well...somewhat patiently for them to fix the Archer class. 

 

Edited by GrumpyOldBulldog

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1 hour ago, smoothmovemcgee said:

Hey is the Brigand the Duelist? I was looking at class creation and didn't see the brigand class. I'm new, but looking for a solid damage hunter type class.

Brigand is a Promotional Class of the Ranger that grants Stealth. Below are brief run downs of each Promo Class. Best to create a character and look at the talents available and three Promo Classes branches.

https://crowfall.com/en-US/news/articles/a-promotion-classes-primer-part-i/

https://crowfall.com/en-US/news/articles/a-promotion-classes-primer-part-ii/

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Posted (edited)

loving the archer so far, its more of a support class though. During big fights your main tools are the damage debuff from Barrage and the suppression from suppression shot. These really hinder the enemy melee train. Also since bow attacks don't require energy you don't have to invest any talents to those allowing you to invest more into the defensive ones. All while using the increase max range talent to allow you to poke at the enemy back line from a perfectly safe distance. Add the fact that movement cc doesn't effect you while you are in your archer stake and using your explosive traps to peel for you and you become very hard to dive. For damage Brigand will always outshine a archer but I feel archery does have it's niche it fills pretty well.

 

Call Fire does seem to bug out sometimes though and rapid fire doesn't sometimes do the animation and go on cd but does no damage and these are important skills for this kit. So I hope they fix them soon.

Edited by silhaku

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4 minutes ago, silhaku said:

loving the archer so far, its more of a support class though. During big fights your main tools are the damage debuff from Barrage and the suppression from suppression shot. These really hinder the enemy melee train. Also since bow attacks don't require energy you don't have to invest any talents to those allowing you to invest more into the defensive ones. All while using the increase max range talent to allow you to poke at the enemy back line from a perfectly safe distance. Add the fact that movement cc doesn't effect you while you are in your archer stake and using your explosive traps to peel for you and you become very hard to dive. For damage Brigand will always outshine a archer but I feel archery does have it's niche it fills pretty well.

@Soulreaver you agree?


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Just now, mandalore said:

@Soulreaver you agree?

Not really..Too many things don't add up.

 

Stay at max range : 
Yes if you have elevated terrain and don't intend on using roots/supressive shot.  The later of the abilities mentioned have a 30m range, and while LMB is at 60-65 it's still something that will get you LoS if behind allies/walls/terrain extremely fast making you have to move… meaning you loose your Call for Fire buff… constantly.

As for hindering the melee train.  At most you slow it down, but nowhere near what is needed for it to have the worth of @bombs from a brigand for example.

Going for defensive disciplines will also mean you loose out on range.  You don't get both and while you can stand behind your front line, you are in a LOT of need for support characters around you.  The stake is nice, for removing SLOW, but all other CC it doesn't remove.  Switching trays to drop bombs also makes you loose the Fire for Effect buff since that can't be slotted in the melee tray, so you loose your buff for a potential melee stealth attack.  You're by far -not- hard to dive at all.

A Brigands damage will -NOT- outshine an archers in an optimal enviroment.  

Archery does not have a niche that it fills out nicely.  It has a niche where under -very- situational circumstances it will be extremely good.  In all others it's mediocre at best, and others can easily outpreform them even then.
 


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

Not really..Too many things don't add up.

 

Stay at max range : 
Yes if you have elevated terrain and don't intend on using roots/supressive shot.  The later of the abilities mentioned have a 30m range, and while LMB is at 60-65 it's still something that will get you LoS if behind allies/walls/terrain extremely fast making you have to move… meaning you loose your Call for Fire buff… constantly.

As for hindering the melee train.  At most you slow it down, but nowhere near what is needed for it to have the worth of @bombs from a brigand for example.

Going for defensive disciplines will also mean you loose out on range.  You don't get both and while you can stand behind your front line, you are in a LOT of need for support characters around you.  The stake is nice, for removing SLOW, but all other CC it doesn't remove.  Switching trays to drop bombs also makes you loose the Fire for Effect buff since that can't be slotted in the melee tray, so you loose your buff for a potential melee stealth attack.  You're by far -not- hard to dive at all.

A Brigands damage will -NOT- outshine an archers in an optimal enviroment.  

Archery does not have a niche that it fills out nicely.  It has a niche where under -very- situational circumstances it will be extremely good.  In all others it's mediocre at best, and others can easily outpreform them even then.
 

I actually agree with a lot of what you stated. I hardly ever use my Fire for Effect buff and it is hard to get any value in a disorganized battle. But I think you misunderstood some of my statement. The melee ball should always be within AoE range but the enemy back like is usually 15-30m behind that. So while you still remain 30-35 meters close to the enemy front line your increased range lets you hit their back line also. It was really useful when taking out low targets trying to retreat back to there healers. You need to be at a off angle to see around the melee to their backlines but you remain safe from their ranged damage while avoiding their melee. 

 

And I said use defensive talents, like the increase armor one. I still run sharp shooter for the AoE root and haven't really figured out what I want to do with the other one, maybe escape artist. And the damage debuff seems to be a very noticeable drop in damage. I mean I use to drop faster using mail as a warden then I do now, as long as I keep using barrage and suppression to buy me more time to escape. So if I'm feeling the noticeable damage drop when their like 5-8 melee on top of me while wearing leather, I'm sure it helps my front line last longer in the fight.

 

Do I think archery might need some buffs? Yeah, a bit. I think some bug fixes would go a long way though. And it does seem to fit my style pretty well and I usually don't like ranged classes like that. Think it would be better than turning it into another raw DPS class and brings more utility for the ranger.

Edited by silhaku

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