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jtoddcoleman

Uncle Bob via Mega Alliance?

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Why does the reward have to be faction as a whole? Why can it not be a fixed amount of rewards but on a guild level?

 

What about allowing your personal points to be spent on a reward of your choosing at the end? 

 

There needs to be a mechanic that allows area control to exist. You should not be able to just walk straight up to an enemy fortress past a bajillion towers. Referencing Blazzen's post, there must a mechanic to provide a use beyond simply points. We jokingly call capping circle jerking these days. It isn't fun and there is no strategy to it. The part that confuses me is this is supposed to be the creative bread and butter of our design team.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Nueby said:

I hate to open this can of worms as i said I would stay out of it but it's not any one person or guilds fault this occurred, pointing fingers and placing blame is not going to solve the issue at all and it will continue to cause is animosity among the population, so what if two guilds that are more organized are on the same faction, the game design allowed. You can't blame them for it, they just did what they wanted as guilds. Its not their job alone to balance the factions.  Pointing fingers and placing blame on bad design is not going to solve the issue.

Please pay no mind to the vitriol you see in most of these "discussions." The vast majority of it is personal BS between former guildmates or "political" trolling. 


Hi, I'm moneda.

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On 2/17/2019 at 9:44 AM, mandalore said:

Again, who’s at fault for them not understanding basic concepts of the game?  

developers only.

 

there is no clear info on vessels

there is no clear info on stats (for example what is AP and how it is works, how stealth works etc)

there is no clear info on what you should do after you login

there is no clear info on how to craft, how is it working and what you should gathering

there is no info on siege mechanic ontop of the broken things like jumping over walls without breaking it

there is very poor class balance and from time to time even game breaking bugs (like 50% PDM for block users) which are abusable by veteran players without any a twinge of conscience

 

and much more. as result who cares about excuses - ppl leave project if they does not get fun. isnt it? no win = no fun = no ppl = no CF.

I can stay with it (outnumbered for 2 years already) and I really dont care about lose or win (pre alpha). not sure about other ppl. win is mandatory for pvp players. it should be sometimes. else there will be only oneside campaigns

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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7 hours ago, veeshan said:

You can put like a 1hr debuff one somone when they die by a player so they dont provide score next death. You can also have people higher on the scoreboard worth more for killing. or have killing spree reward more score when it gets broken so harvesters arnt worth much unless there killing people that jump them

They tried this approach in Age of Conan. People mercilessly farmed alt kills for reputation.

What happenned was everyone in a guild lines up along a wall and went down the line killing everyone's alts. Once decently sized guild doing this can farm 50 kills an hour with no risk for every member of the guild.

I'm already stupidly more efficient by virtue of having an alt account and the extra training lines and bank space that affords me. If you tell me I can amp up my scoreboard position for loot for every person in my guild by doing nothing but buying more accounts I assure you you'll find a 20 person guild called Farms of Exile in a straight line right next to the enemy runegate every day getting murdered by naked people with basic weapons.

The only thing preventing me from doing this right now is that the k/d scoreboard doesn't actually matter, and I can't actually gain anything by setting up a bunch of victim alts.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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7 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

They tried this approach in Age of Conan.

What happenned was everyone in a guild lines up along a wall and went down the line killing everyone's alts. Once decently sized guild doing this can farm 50 kills an hour with no risk for every member of the guild.

I'm already stupidly more efficient by virtue of having an alt account and the extra training lines and bank space that affords me. If you tell me I can amp up my scoreboard position for loot for every person in my guild by doing nothing but buying more accounts I assure you you'll find a 20 person guild called Farms of Exile in a straight line right next to the enemy runegate every day getting murdered by naked people with basic weapons.

The only thing preventing me from doing this right now is that the k/d scoreboard doesn't actually matter, and I can't actually gain anything by setting up a bunch of victim alts.

and if alts were worth 1 point due to not being high on score board where anyone else playing the game may be worth 10 points 5 kills isnt hard to get when actively playing an hour. You can also allow this as a catch up mechanic and have it so u can only get score via killing somone in a faction thats ahead of you, so loosing faction gets 2 targets while 2nd gets 1 target and first gets none to boost there score/faction score.


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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9 hours ago, Jah said:

No, it was your guild that pushed the false narrative that Balance outnumbered everyone.

 

Your really not that good at this are you.

I can see by the date stamps on the quotes you quoted, that at least one was posted after your blatant lies that you fought 63 at the fight.

You don't even need to look back to check, because the quote actually refers to it :). I can't be bothered in checking the others, as you lie about 1, your capable of lying about anything and on top of that you fail to also reference whether each of these quotes is represented in the context you imply or was a response to you or your guilds arrogance. 

Its like presenting a photo in court of a situation on a particular day to show something...only to find out the photo was taken the day before/after, and the person presenting the 'lying' photo has something to hide or something to gain from altering the facts.

You have perjured yourself to the community. (You said you'd be honest and transparent!)

@Jah

Shame on you Jah.

Now please answer my questions listed in my previous posts asking for answers! - You know them, so don't ask :)

 

 

Edited by Shiner

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mr coleman. Yes HoA ran to winterblades tostack the deck and lied about it. But this will not stop the situation you propose with the changes.

The common player can play 1 to 2 hours in a day when they work. Powergamers for one reason or another can play much more, and due to this can powergame themselves to rewards simply due to time. Take for instance, you need to lead harvesting. In four days I harvested over 10k blue / purple / legendary mats alone. Noone can beat me simply because of a time situation. That being said I am not fully trained in ore gathering for most of the ores that can be gotten in campaign. During any given hour, that means other people could do better.

Am I better at it just because I have the time?

Capturing forts is the same. Due to my time of playing 16 or so hours a day, I can during spring and summer, harvest so much that noone can ever hope to catch up. Then fall and winter take forts and camps all day every day, and also take first in this spot. Do I get two rewards because I am a powergamer?

There comes a point where the leaderboard will only display people with the most time on the game in your proposed route. That is a bit of a turnoff to the casual player that I myself would like to avoid. Yeah... I do gear out ALOT of people from my harvesting. I have a set of epic gear. I attack groups of 2 - 4 constantly solo that are NOT harvesting and looking for fights because I can. Sry in advance on that one yianni and company :P

At the moment I cant give other options to a reward system that rewards more than the powergamers, or everyone in a given faction, I just want to say that I do not see this as being it.

I would honestly like there to be no rewards at all if it means we have better balance among the factions for more fighting.

 

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14 hours ago, Scree said:

Rewarding individuals for team enhancing behaviors is a novel idea, but the problem is we have evidence it doesn't work.

 

13 hours ago, Tark said:

I want to help my team win, and if we win I want rewards.

 

5 hours ago, Scree said:

This is a team game, it should have team rewards.

Just quoting my point of view expressed better than I can do.


Catelyn: War will make them old, as it did us. I pity them.
Mathis: Why? Look at them. They're young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?
Catelyn: Because it will not last. Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.

A Clash of Kings, Chapter 22, Catelyn II.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crowfall Discord Channels: international (english) - italiano

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The point system is just a terrible idea. We should be fighting over land not points, somehow if  you can make a zone your factions (or guilds) then they would get a bonus to damage/healing/gathering/crafting in that zone. There should only be one keep and that's in the centre, to capture that keep you'll need to connect the land to it from your starter zone. If in anyway your connection to the keep is broken, you need to rejoin your land, whoever owns the keep at the end is the winner or a stalemate if there is no clear path at the end.

Now that system would make for a much better and more tactical system as players would need to defend a series of zones instead of just sieging one.

 

The siege mechanics isn't really all that good either, zone cap spoils the tactical side of things and also I feel that the keeps should be able to switch hands as many times through out the time limit meaning ppl will need to continually to help defend or/and attack during the time instead of killing the banetree then rushing towards another siege zone. I just feel it isn't right and needs a rethink. 

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I think you are squeezing too much this thread.

As far as I understand, what Todd said is "We identified a potential issue, and we already have potential solutions to test. Be wary, cause we may want to redress it sooner than expected". Maybe it would be nice to add a permanent failsafe as a victory condition. "The winner will be the faction with the most points after 14 days, or the first faction to get X points"

 

That being said, there has been a lot of statements on this thread that I just don't agree with.

"No win, no fun", "Pvpers only care about winning", proposals of mechanics that would just made the Uncle Bob worse and more common,...  If you are aiming for a game where everyone gets to be Uncle Bob itself, then we are target players for very different games.

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8 hours ago, Teddybear said:

mr coleman. Yes HoA ran to winterblades tostack the deck and lied about it. But this will not stop the situation you propose with the changes.

The common player can play 1 to 2 hours in a day when they work. Powergamers for one reason or another can play much more, and due to this can powergame themselves to rewards simply due to time. Take for instance, you need to lead harvesting. In four days I harvested over 10k blue / purple / legendary mats alone. Noone can beat me simply because of a time situation. That being said I am not fully trained in ore gathering for most of the ores that can be gotten in campaign. During any given hour, that means other people could do better.

Am I better at it just because I have the time?

Capturing forts is the same. Due to my time of playing 16 or so hours a day, I can during spring and summer, harvest so much that noone can ever hope to catch up. Then fall and winter take forts and camps all day every day, and also take first in this spot. Do I get two rewards because I am a powergamer?

There comes a point where the leaderboard will only display people with the most time on the game in your proposed route. That is a bit of a turnoff to the casual player that I myself would like to avoid. Yeah... I do gear out ALOT of people from my harvesting. I have a set of epic gear. I attack groups of 2 - 4 constantly solo that are NOT harvesting and looking for fights because I can. Sry in advance on that one yianni and company :P

At the moment I cant give other options to a reward system that rewards more than the powergamers, or everyone in a given faction, I just want to say that I do not see this as being it.

I would honestly like there to be no rewards at all if it means we have better balance among the factions for more fighting.

 

Yes, if you have more time to play, you are generally a much greater asset to your faction. If someone could do what you do in 16 hours in 2 hours and net the same results, it better be because they are way better than you and not because they don't have much time to play. 

I cant think of a system thats actually rewarding and fair that would penalize someone who puts more time into the game than another person by virtue of equity. So yes, power gamers imo should be rewarded with greater rewards than casuals because they are by definition, better at the game than those people since time in game is a signifcant factor in determining how strong/efficient someone is.

What is needed is a reward system that is satisfying enough to draw participation out of everyone on some level. But also incentivize people with time to do extraordinary things for their faction.

Edited by DadliestWarrior

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7 hours ago, makkon said:

developers only.

 

there is no clear info on vessels

there is no clear info on stats (for example what is AP and how it is works, how stealth works etc)

there is no clear info on what you should do after you login

there is no clear info on how to craft, how is it working and what you should gathering

there is no info on siege mechanic ontop of the broken things like jumping over walls without breaking it

there is very poor class balance and from time to time even game breaking bugs (like 50% PDM for block users) which are abusable by veteran players without any a twinge of conscience

 

and much more. as result who cares about excuses - ppl leave project if they does not get fun. isnt it? no win = no fun = no ppl = no CF.

I can stay with it (outnumbered for 2 years already) and I really dont care about lose or win (pre alpha). not sure about other ppl. win is mandatory for pvp players. it should be sometimes. else there will be only oneside campaigns

I 100% agree.  It’s not even close to an even playing field for new players.  They lack the knowledge and organization to be even close; numbers on the field are irrelevant if I’m using SCAR-H 7.62mm and the enemy has the equivalent of a sharpened brittle stick.  

@jtoddcoleman reward balance is a future JTodd problem.  The game being in a more playable state is a current JTodd problem.  Their needs to be some kind of NPE to let people know some of the basics, esp considering that /General is gone, and please stress the importance of guilds in game.  The new testers join thinking they can play this solo and you can “play” solo but barely. 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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IMHO – permanent rewards in games like this will always be an issue. 

  • ·        If it is possible to set the table to win by top guilds joining they will.

  • ·        If you change it to top 20 players that won’t “WIN” the rewards will always feel gimped and that the game isn’t for them.  We need casual players to make this game a success.  I know that is a smaller percent of the players now, but at launch hopefully we will have all types.

  • ·        Even with it being the exact same reward other than one being gold and the other silver, people still moved to win. 

  • ·        If you make it so only the top 20 win.  People will create alts and flip sides.  Do whatever it takes to win.

My personal recommendation:

  • ·        If you want to give rewards then, giver rewards based on participation.  Make it at a level most would be willing to hit, but may push some to play/test more.  IE maybe 100 points for 2 week campaign.  Playing on the losing side you have more opportunity to capture small locations.  

  • ·        Keep permanent stats at launch so you can get badges people can see.   These can be for all kinds of stuff including all phases of the game (PvP, gathering, crafting).  Maybe give top finish, winning campaign, etc…  This is done in many games and seemed to be liked by many.

How can you balance it out?

  • ·        You need to find ways for the two losing factions to fight the top.   Some example give bonus points to the losing factions to fight the top faction?   IE Order and Chaos now both should get points for attacking Balance.  If one faction is far ahead, the other Gods should align so that fight against the winning faction.  IE Order and Chaos merge until within X points.  They do no damage to each other, possibly even share faction chat.

  • ·        The other option is to work on the theory of order vs chaos with balance trying to keep the peace. 

 

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Permanent Rewards with bonuses are always a mistake. For players that need a reward to play the game there are a lot of other options. 

On the whole HOA going Balance with WB that's the way the game is set up to be played. PLAY TO CRUSH Everyone new it was coming just didn't think it would be at this stage. Check mate you win the first trial of Alpha; too bad I was looking forward to some good three way fights on NA.

See you in the field.

Love bear

 

Oh and to the management.... FIX RANGERS

Edited by bear

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27 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I 100% agree.  It’s not even close to an even playing field for new players.  They lack the knowledge and organization to be even close; numbers on the field are irrelevant if I’m using SCAR-H 7.62mm and the enemy has the equivalent of a sharpened brittle stick.  

@jtoddcoleman reward balance is a future JTodd problem.  The game being in a more playable state is a current JTodd problem.  Their needs to be some kind of NPE to let people know some of the basics, esp considering that /General is gone, gear and please stress the importance of guilds in game.  The new testers join thinking they can play this solo and you can “play” solo but barely. 

yep but not exactly.

you can play solo and ppl doing this, even veteran players (I would like to say mostly). usually it is gathering. it is just require a lot of time. not all can provide such amount of hours for pre alpha.

being in a strong guild gives you access to knowledge, new abuses, alot of game mechanics info and... access to craft anything you want. solo players/small scale groups does not get it. this makes a lot of difference to success playing.

now, alot of people complaining about zerg. but numbers is does matter only if they are quality (playerd together for a long time, coordinated, geared well, have knowledge etc). if quality guilds brings alot of players  - it is a technical zerg.

if teh zerg ally other teh zerg so there will close to zero chance for other players to get fun. this is called oneside (swamp)

 

what happened on america and partly on europe servers (well, eu chaos have a chance to win). what's why I does not understand complaining videos where blue+ gear ppl count opponent numbers.

crowfall is not a skill based counter strike.  devs wanna test real situation, they got it 😃

12 minutes ago, bear said:

Permanent Rewards with bonuses are always a mistake. For players that need a reward to play the game there are a lot of other options. 

On the whole HOA going Balance with WB that's the way the game is set up to be played. PLAY TO CRUSH Everyone new it was coming just didn't think it would be at this stage. Check mate you win the first trial of Alpha; too bad I was looking forward to some good three way fights on NA.

See you in the field.

Love bear

 

Oh and to the management.... FIX RANGERS

it is a best way they can stimulate and watch out before soft launch what is going wrong. all uncle bobs working hard. beautiful experiment

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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3 hours ago, moneda said:

At some point everyone's going to have to deal with whatever system we end up with not being "fair" and just decide whether or not they'll play what Crowfall becomes.

Agreed. Whatever point scheme the reward system is based on will be debated, hated, flamed, generally cried about & more effort will be put into gaming the point system than the reward is worth. No two players will be able to agree on a system that is fair in their eyes, and many won't want one that is actually fair, they'll want one they can game.

End of the day, we can either play or move on.

Edited by VaMei

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