Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
excellz

What's Fun, What's Not?

Recommended Posts

Thought I'd post a few random thoughts as I haven't logged in for a couple of weeks (RL, work, fam') - and not feeling the urge to with the game designed as it is.

Curious how my thoughts compare to the general community?

Things I Like / Find Fun

  1. Gathering - the ebb/flow of the pip system has a good feel to it.
  2. World Gen - campaign worlds feel dynamic, nicely designed with areas to focus action - I imagine this will become more focused as points of interest, etc. make their way in.
  3. Character Design - Really like the prestige classes, wish characters has a bit more "uniqueness" to them though.  
  4. Crafting - In PRINCIPAL.  Game has fun combinations, etc.  However there's a lot I dislike (see below).
  5. Theorycrafting - Game is going in the right direction for this, with disc and class combinations in a group.  I wish there was more of the SIn / Adjudicator type synergies to explore.

Thinks I Dislike / Find Tedious

  1. Point System - The more and more I think about it, I hate feeling compelled to get on a video game at a specific time that never changes during testing to play a game of CTF for fake internet points.  It's not sandboxy at all, at the moment.
  2. The Point System - the recent reward drama reinforces this point.  How is this a "throne simulator" when we're playing, at it's core, "CTF?"  I hate the scoring system and how much it narrows gameplay choices and design.  Feels so weirdly ... pasted on to the underlying game design.
  3. Performance - I have BIG concerns here.  The game is so choppy / poorly optimized that I worry how much of it can truly come together at the end. 
  4. Gathering in Bulk - It's tedious.  As much as I love the microdesign of the pip system, gathering for more than an hour causes a lot of carpal tunnel issues.  I don't have any kind of RSI but I think I will develop it if I gather in CF on a regular basis.  Hold left click / spam-A = tension on the mouse hold and cubital tension on the keyboard hand.  
  5. Crafting - While I like the crafting system, I hate how tedious it can be.  However - I know that will be alleviated when/if the factory system is implemented.  That being said, while the system initially impressed me with the multitude of choices and component options, once understood (thank you, -W- site), it felt very mechanical.  You have x% to do this, x% to do that, a couple dozen ore/wood/stone combinations to play with to get a few more %%, but ultimately we're shifting percentage sliders a few degrees left or right in the process, over and over.  At the risk of angering math nerd, I'd love to see a bit more RNG in the crafting system, both in the effects and in the maths.
  6. .001% Performance Gains - Exaggerating here but the game is full of small math bonuses that feel incredibly boring in isolation.  I logged in for the first time in weeks today and had 250k combat points to spend.  I think the actual impact of those expenditures in the 1h tree added up to something like 3% weapon decay loss and .1% power efficiency.  Again, I MAY be exaggerating but if that was 2 months of actual gains I would have died from the lack of excitement at the outcome.
  7. Combat - This one I struggle with.  I can't put my finger on what I dislike... is it mounts that allow remounting quickly?  Is it the lack of VFX and UI feedback that help register combat impact?  Is it the lack of VFX and SFX to help identify and trigger combat counters?  Is it the "slippery" feeling of combat that's probably due to a lack of optimization?  There's a lot to unpack here, but as I played over a month, I became increasingly ... bored by combat.  There's nothing in it that feels visceral or engaging.

Nitpicky Things / Misc

  1. Siege Weapons - need a lot of VFX work on these.
  2. Feature Deprecation - I get some of the choices made in limiting the launch feature list vs initial Kickstarter design list.  Good example, destructable voxels.  But where did the fun scouting / cartography ideas go?  The game feels like a hollowed out version of what was pictured at the KS launch and that is unfortunate... my feelings here may be what they are because I find the core design system (CTF Points!) to be such a boring concept for a "sandbox MMORPG".  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, excellz said:

Thinks I Dislike / Find Tedious

  1. Point System - The more and more I think about it, I hate feeling compelled to get on a video game at a specific time that never changes during testing to play a game of CTF for fake internet points.  It's not sandboxy at all, at the moment.
  2. The Point System - the recent reward drama reinforces this point.  How is this a "throne simulator" when we're playing, at it's core, "CTF?"  I hate the scoring system and how much it narrows gameplay choices and design.  Feels so weirdly ... pasted on to the underlying game design.

 

The reason most of us don't like it is because its bad way to play and it's bad at measuring the nuances of whats good and whats bad in CF. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, mandalore said:

The reason most of us don't like it is because its bad way to play and it's bad at measuring the nuances of whats good and whats bad in CF. 

Agreed.  I don't know a better way to do it but I cringe at the amount of dev work that's already gone into the system, and how much more appears to be slated for it.  

Out of all the possible options that could serve as a fulcrum / reason for conflict in a sandbox world, "Points" has to be one of the laziest choices.

Edited by excellz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, excellz said:

Point System - The more and more I think about it, I hate feeling compelled to get on a video game at a specific time that never changes during testing to play a game of CTF for fake internet points.  It's not sandboxy at all, at the moment.

This one's a double edged sword. Either we can all long into game at the scheduled siege window & all play siege games, or the enemy can all log in at some obscene hour and play siege games without you or your team's participation.

In GvG, Eve's siege system could work, where the corporation sets the vulnerability window to a frequency and time they feel they can support (1 hour every day, or 2 hours every 2nd day, etc.), but that's not going to work well for CF's faction campaigns. Still not very sand boxey for a medieval keep to have a vulnerability window that's not tied to the seasons. At least Eve could explain it off as "shield magic needs to recuperate x% of the time".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the point and capture systems really do need a rework and the crafting really needs a quality of life fix, my biggest complaint about the combat is probably the lack of visuals and how some classes can escape you simply because their dodge goes farther/is a teleport instead of actually doing anything to earn their life 


hoayaga2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This might be nuts but as I read this I was trying to envision a pointless system and I came up with a land ownership system.

What if parcels were able to be owned by a faction or guild. An outpost might control a small parcel, larger ones would have multiple outposts and big ones would have forts/keeps. The winner of the CW would be whoever owns the most land at the end.

Circle standing needs to be eliminated as well. Make outpost and forts harder to take, make it a real challenge and just a flag you can turn. And for gods sakes make it so you spawn at the closest "anything" you control. It would give real meaning to owning an outpost aside from points or ownership. It's a tactical advantage that the opposing team would have to eliminate if they want the res spam to stop.

I always like the vision they had where a map was being taken over by another faction and as the faction moved through the map it would change color. 

 

Anyway, good post to the OP. Makes a lot of valid arguments and it's good to see a perspective from someone new.  thank you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, VaMei said:

This one's a double edged sword. Either we can all long into game at the scheduled siege window & all play siege games, or the enemy can all log in at some obscene hour and play siege games without you or your team's participation.

In GvG, Eve's siege system could work, where the corporation sets the vulnerability window to a frequency and time they feel they can support (1 hour every day, or 2 hours every 2nd day, etc.), but that's not going to work well for CF's faction campaigns. Still not very sand boxey for a medieval keep to have a vulnerability window that's not tied to the seasons. At least Eve could explain it off as "shield magic needs to recuperate x% of the time".

1 hour ago, VaMei said:

This one's a double edged sword. Either we can all long into game at the scheduled siege window & all play siege games, or the enemy can all log in at some obscene hour and play siege games without you or your team's participation.

In GvG, Eve's siege system could work, where the corporation sets the vulnerability window to a frequency and time they feel they can support (1 hour every day, or 2 hours every 2nd day, etc.), but that's not going to work well for CF's faction campaigns. Still not very sand boxey for a medieval keep to have a vulnerability window that's not tied to the seasons. At least Eve could explain it off as "shield magic needs to recuperate x% of the time".

That's the problem to some extent - GvG is entirely focused around keeps and there's nothing else to fight for.  At least in EVE, outpost / etc. battles focused on establishing territorial control and control over resources.  In CF atm, there isn't really anything to fight over except ... points, and small crafter bonuses?

Maybe it will all change as systems get fleshed out, but that doesn't appear to be likely.  I'd love some kind of roaming Wraith or PvE content that takes 10 minutes to kill, spawns randomly, and drops necessary loot for epic gear crafting.  In one swoop, you:

  • Give players a reason to get out and scout zones
  • Create dynamic points of conflict and emergent gameplay
  • Tie crafting to something more than a gathering system that requires no-life gameplay
  • Create item / reward scarcity

The systems as designed are so minimal ... that playing for the sake of playing / testing is just not fun.  If the combat was better it would be fulfilling but atm... it's just not fun.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, excellz said:

 

  1. Point System - The more and more I think about it, I hate feeling compelled to get on a video game at a specific time that never changes during testing to play a game of CTF for fake internet points.  It's not sandboxy at all, at the moment.
  2. The Point System - the recent reward drama reinforces this point.  How is this a "throne simulator" when we're playing, at it's core, "CTF?"  I hate the scoring system and how much it narrows gameplay choices and design.  Feels so weirdly ... pasted on to the underlying game design.
  3. .001% Performance Gains - Exaggerating here but the game is full of small math bonuses that feel incredibly boring in isolation.  I logged in for the first time in weeks today and had 250k combat points to spend.  I think the actual impact of those expenditures in the 1h tree added up to something like 3% weapon decay loss and .1% power efficiency.  Again, I MAY be exaggerating but if that was 2 months of actual gains I would have died from the lack of excitement at the outcome.

 

points 1&2, Agreed! point systems are not for what this type of game is intended IMO. just quit with the points.

 

3...that wasnt 2 months, that was more like a week and a half. you stop gaining points at 256k points i think is the number. point is, it stops gaining and have to train regularly in order to continue "gaining" points.


uDaTTsig_zpsdyyatdq1.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gracen said:

points 1&2, Agreed! point systems are not for what this type of game is intended IMO. just quit with the points.

 

3...that wasnt 2 months, that was more like a week and a half. you stop gaining points at 256k points i think is the number. point is, it stops gaining and have to train regularly in order to continue "gaining" points.

Isn’t training at x3 speed for testing purposes?


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Isn’t training at x3 speed for testing purposes?

My point is that if I had that many points saved up, without speed accelerated, it would have been a whopping disappointment.

Only other game like this (EVE) for comparison ... 

You might take 2 months to train from BS IV to V ... might only give you a 2.5% turret dmg boost but it will also allow another skill tree, additional ships that you can fly (Tier 2 ships), etc.  There's a big "oomph" at the end of the train that makes it feel like an accomplishment in patience.

Getting .1% hard control duration in a CF skill tree is the exact opposite of that feeling.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The slow growth is definitely a disappointment.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/18/2019 at 1:34 PM, excellz said:

my feelings here may be what they are because I find the core design system (CTF Points!) to be such a boring concept for a "sandbox MMORPG".  

My list of fun things matches yours right now. They're enjoyable, rewarding and engaging parts of gameplay for me.

I quoted the above because the CTF Points system reminds me a lot of Auto Assault's endgame. Do with that what you will. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/18/2019 at 1:02 PM, excellz said:

That's the problem to some extent - GvG is entirely focused around keeps and there's nothing else to fight for.  At least in EVE, outpost / etc. battles focused on establishing territorial control and control over resources.  In CF atm, there isn't really anything to fight over except ... points, and small crafter bonuses?

Maybe it will all change as systems get fleshed out, but that doesn't appear to be likely.  I'd love some kind of roaming Wraith or PvE content that takes 10 minutes to kill, spawns randomly, and drops necessary loot for epic gear crafting.  In one swoop, you:

  • Give players a reason to get out and scout zones
  • Create dynamic points of conflict and emergent gameplay
  • Tie crafting to something more than a gathering system that requires no-life gameplay
  • Create item / reward scarcity

The systems as designed are so minimal ... that playing for the sake of playing / testing is just not fun.  If the combat was better it would be fulfilling but atm... it's just not fun.

 

EvE also made the 0.0 resources scarce for moon goo.  We don't need the best materials spread over the map (I don't like their spawner algorithm), instead we need a secure area that guilds control.  Imagine a locked door, that keeps most people out, but if a large enough force breaks the door they can come in; that was how EvE worked.  Space in 0.0 was safe for the miners, what was in danger was access to the safety of mining in owned systems.  Wars were fought over the areas that safely produced high end resources.  Control a system, you can safely rat or mine in it, want a system to safely mine in,  you fought over it to take control.  Crowfall needs a way to allow us to safely harvest in zones, and then provide a way for that area to be transfered via PvP.  In my opinion that was the beauty of the Wolf vs Sheep in EvE; the sheep were protected, and for the most part didn't complain in 0.0 (hulkageddon being an exception).  The wolves would then gather a force to try and take over the systems so their own sheep could harvest in safety.

Shadowbanes safety net was twofold, you had track, and you had summons.  Both of these much needed mechanics are missing in Crowfall and it really hurts the sheep having a desire to play in the open world.  Where this hurts the most is the single or small group players.  Guilds will put groups together and deter by numbers or reinforcements.  However the solo player (yes they will be drawn to this game too) is not left with too many mechanics to protect their gametime while harvesting. 

As for scouting, I specifically asked the question to Gordon about whether we could see something similar to EvE's scanning for plexes; the  answer was positive that we could get something like that, but probably after launch.  Things change and I'm not stating positively it will happen, what I'm getting at is ACE is aware of the need for other things to do besides just PvP.

Points are just bad.


lUvvzPy.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...