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Ecosystem (Mobs And Resources)


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Great ideas sneaky squirrel and sigitang. Mobs being able to become extinct and some form of evolution would be awesome. The evolution would make it more difficult to kill the animals by whatever method they were being killed with. Players can use this to make really strong populations of animals outside of their strongholds to help defend it. It would also be cool if we could capture animals and bosses and make them kill our enemies! :)

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ArtCraft has been revealing a bunch of features I thought were "impossible".  And after the last pre-countdown update, the forums have slowed down considerably.  So I am going to make another thread a

Wakfu was a cool first try for introducing a real ecosystem in a MMO, the first beta version (2010 i think) was awesome. You had to manage every resources, guilds started to create laws for the gestio

If we're getting resources from Mobs, then the Mobs themselves should be perishable like the rest of the world. When the Campaign opens, there are so many mobs on the map. When they're all dead, they'

I am glad to see so many people on these forums interested in harvesting mechanics.  I am not alone.  Lots of interesting points made here, I'd like to talk about how I can see these features being implemented.  But before that it is tinfoil hat speculation time.  Time for evidence of the conspiracy.  I won't have an opportunity to dream after the countdown ends after all.

 

I have not seen any depictions of fauna in Crowfall besides the Cat stages, the Hellcat eating an unidentified victim, the Gryphon stages, the Hellgryphon encounter, and the Hellcat pack surrounding the Elven Frostweaver.

 

Time to make my case.  Why will fauna be in the game?  Lets first look at the most crucial piece to the puzzle, the Hunger Week Drop.

 

["The Campaign map is hidden by fog of war.  You are dropped (typically naked) into an unknown, deadly environment."]

We can try and interpret a deadly environment as the PvE enemies players must face before the real conflict of PvP begins, but this is a stretch.

 

["The Hunger starts to infect the creatures."]   They said creatures, they are in our vocabulary now.  The game hosts a complex crafting dynamic where recipes consist of component types, meaning that a recipe can use various different types of leather (From different creatures).

 

["The creatures become more deadly as the Hunger takes hold."]   Deadlier creatures later, means less deadly creatures previously.  Can we expect a portion of creatures to be resources players must exploit to build up infrastructure for the lategame?  The developers are emphasizing Crowfall as a PvP game, and they have confirmed PvE content (Non-raid PvE Confirmed).  Why include PvE content?  To complement the PvP in the form of crafting to add a layer of strategy to PvP conquest, and another string to create player communities.

 

["Warmth is hard to come by."]   Warmth is a high cost resource in the later stages of the Campaign.  If Winter is a stage of starvation, vulnerability, and scarcity.  We can assume that creature products, such as consumables, could be heat sources.  If a player must wander fa away from town, without buildings to shield him, or a fire to heat his body, food could offer a portable debuff remover (Assuming that lack of heat simulates weakness in players in the form of debuffs).

 

Now we move on to the FAQs.

 

From the Combat FAQ, question #8, the Devs mention:

["We have creatures that are incredibly deadly, but they don’t hang out at the end of a dungeon waiting for you to come kill them.  They also don’t drop rare magic items when defeated – because that would undercut the player-driven economy."]

Artcraft wants to use creatures to strengthen the economy, their comments seem consistent.

 

Later in the combat FAQ we find in question #9:

["Instead, our goal is to create a deep, complex simulation – filled with tactical and environmental considerations and emergent gameplay.  Our design goal is that no single character is better than others in every situation.  This approach means that mastery of the game relies on skill: knowing how to build your character in a way that suits your playstyle, and then seeking out situations in the game that will be to your advantage.  It also means that adventuring parties will be less cookie cutter, as the roles are not as clearly defined."]   Hope for an economy based character build is still there, no build is better in every situation according to the Devs.  They have said that they are interested in PvP and crafting, and they claim your build can be molded around your playstyle.  If dedicated crafting is a playstyle, that means we might see PvE specialized combat skills (Trapping, Recon, etc).

 

Finally, we look at the Economy FAQ.

 

Question #2: ["Resources can be harvested from the environment, and sometimes found on certain monsters."]   This piece speaks for itself.

 

This can easily be the feature that was not put in the game, but could the dream be true?

How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Interesting stuff and very thoughtful, I feel that a lot of these features, PvE and such could be done a lot more dynamically. I think of Monster Hunter or such, but even that is simplistic, the main thing is that every creature could have a unique set of AI behaviors which make them a little deeper than do this damage, have these skills, and die this fast.

 

Some animals could be completely passive and flee from you, forcing you to hunt and land a good killing blow, than track them and finish them off. That same beast could turn on you and fight under unique circumstances like semi cornering them, or around baby beasts. Predators could act like predators, if you fight them and don't finish them off, they may chase you for a while and hunt you back. They may flee if their injured or try to back down and be defensive, or, if it's a very tenacious beast, they may follow you all the way to town and either have to be put down by other players or NPCs, or they may stay outside of town waiting for you to emerge.

 

These kinds of behaviors give monsters and beasts identity, without any narrative or dialogue, you can think... those zombies, I shouldn't have gone to zombie wood, they started gathering up and than followed me all the way to town, causing danger for everyone on the road home. Or, that Unicorn, I had to track and sneak up on it for an hour, and it still got away!

 

The subject of creature populations though, I don't think fit... and there is a specific reason why, Crowfall already has a changing environment, you start on new Campaigns and at first everything is natural, but as the seasons change, creatures turn into monsters. It's not that they couldn't have a population impact... it's that there really isn't a need for it, there's a point where features conflict or become unnecessarily complex.

 

Having other features like migration patterns on respawn that draw new fauna from another place to their regular stalking grounds, or having creature behavior change as they transform into monsters, there are a lot of features that can be embellished, if they can make them work and are meaningful contributions to the gameplay, but it's very hard to weigh ecosystem and creature behavior and placement outside of the context of the world their making, so it mostly something to just poke at.

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I like this whole thread.

 

Sadly i can't see such emergent AI in a PvP driven game.

 

It's PvP driven for a reason.

Less focus on AI, more on Player interactions for game content.
 

 

Still.. i would love to see such a AI as described here.

Storybricks  "WAS" something that made me go hyped for EQN and LM. Now that they're self devolping it (maybe StoryDay named), it's a coins toss worth of chance to completly fail ...

 

Drives, Needs and Actions.

*begins to drool*

 

Greenfox likes warm climates>he needs Catgirls>Will make everyone were artifical cat ears if he can't find life ones.

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Actually, sad thing is, PvP games have better PvE AI than PvE games... PvE games make a bunch of nonsensical systems like trinity behaviors so you can fight creatures in uniform scenarios, PvP games expect PvE opponents to behave more like PvP battles, so the way you fight and face foes has to be programmed into the PvE AI that way they will constitute a challenge in a system where they are not just health bags which can be directed toward the least vulnerable target while the most vulnerable targets get free shots.

 

PvE can serve as a source of training, imitating combat for players to learn PvP, and include a variety of tactical and strategic challenges to drill intelligent behaviors into players, much like campaign play in Starcraft 2 or Warcraft 3

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Actually, sad thing is, PvP games have better PvE AI than PvE games... PvE games make a bunch of nonsensical systems like trinity behaviors so you can fight creatures in uniform scenarios, PvP games expect PvE opponents to behave more like PvP battles, so the way you fight and face foes has to be programmed into the PvE AI that way they will constitute a challenge in a system where they are not just health bags which can be directed toward the least vulnerable target while the most vulnerable targets get free shots.

 

PvE can serve as a source of training, imitating combat for players to learn PvP, and include a variety of tactical and strategic challenges to drill intelligent behaviors into players, much like campaign play in Starcraft 2 or Warcraft 3

The fun thing is.

 

That's right.

 

And its sad too ...

 

But if you take a human player and an ai.

Facing an human  will always feel better.

(as long as they'r not mindlessly stupid. Not giving "many" examples, but go to PRIME World to see kids in action ... uggghh.. moths to the light ..)

 

AI can be done right as much as we love to. Even the perfect AI would fail us after sometime.

As we are learning .. and they are just repeating their "clever" behavior.

 

And jes. I really will hope that AI here is atleast as good to warrant a training partner.

PvE= Sparring

PvP=Duelling

 

I HOPE personally that AI even if its not super emergent ... will atleast be intelligent enough, not to focus the tank all day.

Like how people can think a bit for themself from experience.

Tank= Sucks in My DPS and i die

Ranged DPS= Dies as a squish puddle of blood and gore in seconds ...

 

Why am i focusing the tank again ...?

 

*Dragon scratching his chin, while spewing fire at the laughing tank*

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Well along with being more intelligent in combat, Archetypes aren't going to be as specialized as they are in PvE games, so the AI doesn't have to struggle to hard to decide whether to deal with the stronger tank in front of him, that does do damage and doesn't have a healer up his but, or chase a ranged attacker which is trying to avoid his approach and possibly die in a futile advance. I liked how the first guild wars did battles, it might have been basic, but it showed how easy it was to simply program different combat behaviors.

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Well along with being more intelligent in combat, Archetypes aren't going to be as specialized as they are in PvE games, so the AI doesn't have to struggle to hard to decide whether to deal with the stronger tank in front of him, that does do damage and doesn't have a healer up his but, or chase a ranged attacker which is trying to avoid his approach and possibly die in a futile advance. I liked how the first guild wars did battles, it might have been basic, but it showed how easy it was to simply program different combat behaviors.

^^

 

From what little i know and can guess.

 

Tanks will have higher lifesustain trough "hit on life". Aka "Lifedrain without DPS" and "selfheal rough attacks".

And i sure hope that the enemy will be able to chase these pesky rangers elks.

Like how a sabretooth tiger could leap over the tank .. and get a good bite on fleeing elk ranger, as he wanted to be further away from it.

 

But no.

I think these Archetypes will be pretty spezialised. We just don't know jet, what we could spezialise ourself in.

There won't be some "I heal 5k /second firehose healers". But tanks will be sustainable a bit, DPS will differ alot. And even a Tank isn't a Tank.

We don't know much what is planned about aggro from PvE Mobs.

But one can hope .. that they prefer elken meat over anything else .. i mean the sabretooth tigers not the quineans .. these seeeeeeeem harmless.

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This brings back the memories of what they tried to do in UO.  

 

They had elaborate designs for ecosystems, animal behavior, plant and tree growth.  What happened though was players basically fanned out and strip-mined the whole ecosystem, found spawn points and camped them, etc.

 

Now Raph Koster was involved in all that.  We'll see if they plan to take another shot at the living, breathing world.  There isn't any reason you can't do that alongside PVP other than prioritization of development resources.  But if they feel the PVP is well in hand, why not flesh out other game systems?

Edited by cemya
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This brings back the memories of what they tried to do in UO.  

 

They had elaborate designs for ecosystems, animal behavior, plant and tree growth.  What happened though was players basically fanned out and strip-mined the whole ecosystem, found spawn points and camped them, etc.

 

Now Raph Koster was involved in all that.  We'll see if they plan to take another shot at the living, breathing world.  There isn't any reason you can't do that alongside PVP other than prioritization of development resources.  But if they feel the PVP is well in hand, why not flesh out other game systems?

I knew UO.

It would be fun if thats in here. It would make PvP more interesting.

If you could say, breed some monsters to gain more leather or scales for weapons and equip.

And enemy could make stuff and sabotage your farms ...

 

*droools*

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With a complex character development scheme, eating up the eco system doesn't even have to be a direct correlation to progress. They already have passive growth, but leveling up could be done in a number of ways, like actually sparring with players, Colosseum fights, PvP obviously, and training on specific types of monster races which never run out.

 

If the eco system and animals operated more like a natural environment, players may only hunt them for resources and materials, or to secure areas of interest. they could be working a mine or lumbering a forest and have to shoo or fight off unwelcome creatures of varying hostility. There's a lot of ways to do it.

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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It's important for Mobs and PvE bosses to not respawn at a fixed point, so gold farmers won't have an easy time using macros.

extermiantion in week 1...

 

I doubt that a non-respawn system is feasible

The Hungry should respawn after death of a mob, unless the body is destroyed. This presents new problems for players.

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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With a complex character development scheme, eating up the eco system doesn't even have to be a direct correlation to progress. They already have passive growth, but leveling up could be done in a number of ways, like actually sparring with players, Colosseum fights, PvP obviously, and training on specific types of monster races which never run out.

 

If the eco system and animals operated more like a natural environment, players may only hunt them for resources and materials, or to secure areas of interest. they could be working a mine or lumbering a forest and have to shoo or fight off unwelcome creatures of varying hostility. There's a lot of ways to do it.

 

You raise an interesting point, which is that Crowfall (at least from what we know now) will try and detach leveling from the grind.  They will allow you to passively train one of your characters offline.

 

If leveling your skills isn't a matter of having to go out to kill 1,000 boars, then a living Ecosystem might have a chance to flourish.  Players would hunt to gather materials, food, etc. but the wildlife isn't necessarily going to be the main concern.  Other players, the Hunger animals (which I assume will be predatory) capturing terrain, etc. will have higher priorities.

 

A living world will make all the spaces between keeps and camps interesting to travel through and fight in.  In Shadowbane, besides the well-known farming spots, the land was as featureless as a billiard table.  It doesn't need to be that way.

 

On the technical side, you sensed back in UO days that the technology was really straining to deliver.  A living world places demands on the technology to be sure.  But maybe it can handle it now.

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I'm not at all programmer but I don't think you need to focus on specific AI for every creatures.

Like you said it's a lot of work for a PvP game and it means MANY potential bugs to correct.

 

For me the better system (and maybe the simpliest i don' t know) would be to have a large data base of creatures and plants (which is a huge artistic work i admiit it) with, like i said previously, specifics caracteristics.

 

After this you can handle this concept more like a simulation than specifics AI.

What I realy want to say is: "What is an ecosystem after all?" and "How can we use this notion to create this new world more realistic and realy living ?".

In ecology you can theoretically take a biotope by its parameters because animal behavior is mostly created by reaction to this parameters.

Instead of creating multiple AI you can apply simple natural, global laws of interest, what we call in biology a "gain/loss ratio".

I know i'm going too far but if someone can read it with programming capacities i would like to know if it could be handled by our generation of servers/machines.

 

I give you again an exemple of what i think would be the better and the most ambicious ecosystem in a MMO:

 

 

How can we create realistic reactions for creatures ?

And here we will take something more specific, a situation that you described BahamutKaiser:

How a virtual animal could decide if he flees or attacks an enemy ?

 

It's what we can call "ESS" in biology (Evolutionary stable strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy) this system can explain many things in the nature and after all it's just simple maths and probabilities, something that computers can handle.

 

I'll take a simple case to illustrate:

 

You are in Crowfall searching for strawberries in the forest (again this fruit sorry...). A tiger appears right in front of you, how can we make the tiger reacting like a real beast ?

 

I) Parameters (again)


 

I already did talk about this in my first post, but we can explore an another face of it.

 

1) Survivability

The tiger, when the dev coded it in the data base, has been related to many numbers, for exemple:

 

- Attack points

- Armor

- critical hit

- regen

- hp

- speed

....

We can create with these numbers a "survivability" parameter (it exists also for your character), your capacity of winning the fight is shown by this number.

 

For this exemple let's consider random survivability numbers:

You = 120 S

Tiger = 90 S

 

2) Potential gain

 

 And i'd like to see a new key parameter (more or less complex): "gain". It's a very complicate and evolution-related thing in the real world but you can, in a game, create something simplier:

Your level, resources in inventory, achievements... Could be synthetized into one variable (simpliest case) which represents the "gain" the tiger could win if it kills you.

The issue is to imagine something simple to modelize the gain, how the monster could have a real interest of killing you ?

Again i synthetise but you can imagine that in a fantasy world creatures can absorb a little bit of your power when they kill you, it's an idea of potential "gain".

 

 

Again we choose random numbers:

 

You = +60S (if we see gain like a + survivability bonus for the tiger)

 

II) Let's calculate !


 

Ok so we have here two parameters, potential gain and survivability. With that we can imagine a simple formula to finaly know if the tiger will attack you or not.

 

If Survivability potential is equal between two opponents the chances to win the fight are equal for both characters.

S- = Death

S+ = Power increases

Sp = S of the player

St = S of the tiger

 

St/Sp                                                   Sp/St

90/120 = 0,75                                     120/90=1,33

coef bonus for the tiger                       coef bonus for the player

 

Now let's create a basic gain/loss relation:

If the tiger looses, he dies --> - 90S

If he wins, he becomes way more powerful --> + 60S

 

Possible formula of the potential Gain :

Gp=(S- * (Sp/St)) + (S+ * (St/Sp))

Gp=(-90 * 1,33) + (+60 * 0,75) = -75

 

I forgot a last parameter:

The condition: if the gain/loss ratio is < G then the tiger will engage the fight.

G = -40 (he is quite agressiv = he can take risks, you can change G to change the agressiveness of the creature)

-75<-40 --> the tiger wont take the risk to attack the player

 

This system has many defaults, it's just to show that is not impossible to simulate conflict behavior between two mobs or 1 player vs 1mob.

 

What i like with this kind of formulas is the fact that you can change every parameters to change the comportement of the creature :

If you take G=200 you will have a mob who never wants to take a fight or only versus a very very easy opponent, it could be for herbivorous animals.

If you take G=-200 you will have a very aggressiv mob, it could be for corrupted dangerous monsters.

If you take G=0 you will have a normal predator....

 

The thing i don't know how to handle is the « cost » of the mob-life... It's difficult to attribute a number for it ^^ (i took the Survivability in this model but it could be something else)

 

You can also estimate when a monster wants to attack you, and even when he will stop the fight.

Because if you refresh during the fight the Gp value, the monster can decide to go away because his survivability is now too low

→ Gp<G again.

 

In our situation we can see that the tiger would attack you only if you have a survivability above

90-95S or under, you can change every parameters you want.

234967crowfalleco.jpg

 

 

 

 I think about these ideas for a long time now and i always wanted to see it in a MMO, it will not happen i know it but i had a good time sharing with you this sutff^^.

I don't have a high level in maths/coding and not a pro in biology so if you see (and you will) huge defaults/inconsistencies in my propositions please share it !

 

Sorry for the long post, and my bad english as usual :) .

 

Ps: I wanted to show that you don't need Specific AIs for each mob but i guess it's what i'm talking about here^^

 

Ps2: This model is an exemple for the simpliest case: 1v1, we can imagine more complexe parameters for more complexe situations.

Edited by sigitang
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Interesting stuff!

 

I assume that, like Shadowbane, Crowfall will have NPC guards.  So they will already be doing some work on their behaviors.  Likewise with the Hunger animals.  Perhaps that will make doing some of the things you have described above with the wildlife less challenging.

Edited by cemya
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I'm not at all programmer but I don't think you need to focus on specific AI for every creatures.

Like you said it's a lot of work for a PvP game and it means MANY potential bugs to correct.

 

For me the better system (and maybe the simpliest i don' t know) would be to have a large data base of creatures and plants (which is a huge artistic work i admiit it) with, like i said previously, specifics caracteristics.

 

After this you can handle this concept more like a simulation than specifics AI.

What I realy want to say is: "What is an ecosystem after all?" and "How can we use this notion to create this new world more realistic and realy living ?".

In ecology you can theoretically take a biotope by its parameters because animal behavior is mostly created by reaction to this parameters.

Instead of creating multiple AI you can apply simple natural, global laws of interest, what we call in biology a "gain/loss ratio".

I know i'm going too far but if someone can read it with programming capacities i would like to know if it could be handled by our generation of servers/machines.

 

I give you again an exemple of what i think would be the better and the most ambicious ecosystem in a MMO:

 

 

How can we create realistic reactions for creatures ?

And here we will take something more specific, a situation that you described BahamutKaiser:

How a virtual animal could decide if he flees or attacks an enemy ?

 

It's what we can call "ESS" in biology (Evolutionary stable strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy) this system can explain many things in the nature and after all it's just simple maths and probabilities, something that computers can handle.

 

I'll take a simple case to illustrate:

 

You are in Crowfall searching for strawberries in the forest (again this fruit sorry...). A tiger appears right in front of you, how can we make the tiger reacting like a real beast ?

 

I) Parameters (again)

 

I already did talk about this in my first post, but we can explore an another face of it.

 

1) Survivability

The tiger, when the dev coded it in the data base, has been related to many numbers, for exemple:

 

- Attack points

- Armor

- critical hit

- regen

- hp

- speed

....

We can create with these numbers a "survivability" parameter (it exists also for your character), your capacity of winning the fight is shown by this number.

 

For this exemple let's consider random survivability numbers:

You = 120 S

Tiger = 90 S

 

2) Potential gain

 

 And i'd like to see a new key parameter (more or less complex): "gain". It's a very complicate and evolution-related thing in the real world but you can, in a game, create something simplier:

Your level, resources in inventory, achievements... Could be synthetized into one variable (simpliest case) which represents the "gain" the tiger could win if it kills you.

The issue is to imagine something simple to modelize the gain, how the monster could have a real interest of killing you ?

Again i synthetise but you can imagine that in a fantasy world creatures can absorb a little bit of your power when they kill you, it's an idea of potential "gain".

 

 

Again we choose random numbers:

 

You = +60S (if we see gain like a + survivability bonus for the tiger)

 

II) Let's calculate !

 

Ok so we have here two parameters, potential gain and survivability. With that we can imagine a simple formula to finaly know if the tiger will attack you or not.

 

If Survivability potential is equal between two opponents the chances to win the fight are equal for both characters.

S- = Death

S+ = Power increases

Sp = S of the player

St = S of the tiger

 

St/Sp                                                   Sp/St

90/120 = 0,75                                     120/90=1,33

coef bonus for the tiger                       coef bonus for the player

 

Now let's create a basic gain/loss relation:

If the tiger looses, he dies --> - 90S

If he wins, he becomes way more powerful --> + 60S

 

Possible formula of the potential Gain :

Gp=(S- * (Sp/St)) + (S+ * (St/Sp))

Gp=(-90 * 1,33) + (+60 * 0,75) = -75

 

I forgot a last parameter:

The condition: if the gain/loss ratio is > G then the tiger will engage the fight.

G = -40 (he is quite agressiv = he can take risks, you can change G to change the agressiveness of the creature)

-75<-40 --> the tiger wont take the risk to attack the player

 

This system has many defaults, it's just to show that is not impossible to simulate conflict behavior between two mobs or 1 player vs 1mob.

 

What i like with this kind of formulas is the fact that you can change every parameters to change the comportement of the creature :

If you take G=200 you will have a mob who never wants to take a fight or only versus a very very easy opponent, it could be for herbivorous animals.

If you take G=-200 you will have a very aggressiv mob, it could be for corrupted dangerous monsters.

If you take G=0 you will have a normal predator....

 

The thing i don't know how to handle is the « cost » of the mob-life... It's difficult to attribute a number for it ^^ (i took the Survivability in this model but it could be something else)

 

You can also estimate when a monster wants to attack you, and even when he will stop the fight.

Because if you refresh during the fight the Gp value, the monster can decide to go away because his survivability is now too low

→ Gp<G again.

 

In our situation we can see that the tiger would attack you only if you have a survivability above

90-95S or under, you can change every parameters you want.

234967crowfalleco.jpg

 

 

 

 I think about these ideas for a long time now and i always wanted to see it in a MMO, it will not happen i know it but i had a good time sharing with you this sutff^^.

I don't have a high level in maths/coding and not a pro in biology so if you see (and you will) huge defaults/inconsistencies in my propositions please share it !

 

Sorry for the long post, and my bad english as usual :) .

 

Ps: I wanted to show that you don't need Specific AIs for each mob but i guess it's what i'm talking about here^^

 

Ps2: This model is an exemple for the simpliest case: 1v1, we can imagine more complexe parameters for more complexe situations.

Nice ^^.

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It's a huge long shot but I think that if any game could be set up that way, crowfall has the potential to. I mean that means if a server has to many gatherers the world could potentially run out of food and players would have to have wars over the food they gathered earlier in the campaign. That would be an amazing experience that no other game could even come close to. Even if it wasn't as complex of a system as you suggested and in each "phase" of the campaign there are less and less resources, they will still capture that changing value of materials and food in the world. I hope the countdown reveals something like you suggestion.

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