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bear

Question about forums

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I could only find this 'Terms of conduct' at the bottom of our homepage. Which seems to be travian's. Even tho that doesnt mke mush sense to me.

Couldnt find a single 'ban' here after a quick ctrl+f search. Still, it seems to be travian's.

I am pretty sure I saw ...

NVM, I found Ace's. Had to change travian for artcraft in the url. Here.

To answer your question:

Quote

There are some actions that are severe enough to result in immediate temporary or permanent suspension of posting privileges without prior notification. Serious or sustained offenses may result in suspension of not only the user's forum account but game account as well.
Please refer to the General Rules of Conduct for the complete list, but examples include:

  • Threats against anyone or any group.

  • Viruses, malware, worms, or Trojans.

  • Sexually explicit content, including sexual harassment.

  • Sharing personal information about Art+Craft volunteers, employees, customers or any other individuals.

  • Hate speech, including the degrading or vilifying of a particular race, religion, ethnic group, gender, sexual preference or sexual identity, as well as any members of these groups.

  • Evading suspension through account hopping.

  • Impersonation of an Art+Craft employee or agent.

  • Promoting or linking to exploits, cheating programs, piracy or any sort of illegal activity

  • Posting or linking to content that violates the 

or

  • Serious violations of these rules may result in further steps taken with your Internet service provider (ISP), law enforcement, or required authorities or agencies.

 

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To @Pann,

Any reason why the links such as ToS, Rules of conduct, PrivacyPolicy, and Fair UsePolicy in the, forgot the name, botom of the mainsite link to travian's? Instead of Ace's that is.

Either link both (it might look ugly) or just link to ACE's. That is the only that really matters.

Edit: Plus, from what I saw, Travian stuff seems to be general. Their tos seemed to be applicable to all its games which makes it even less of a use to us.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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3 hours ago, bear said:

Can you be banned in game for actions on forums?

@bear - I moved this thread from Community Q&A since this is exactly the sort of topic/discussion we created The Great Hall for. I'm always open to discussing the purpose of our rules and what are policies are, etc., but keep in mind that I won't be able to discuss specific users. We value the privacy of our community members and make a strict policy not to discuss someone's account with a third party in public or in private. 

That said, I'm happy to answer your question. The short answer is yes, when someone is banned on the forums, their game account(s) are also banned. 

Here's why. Our Rules of Conduct have slightly different forum and in-game rules. The forum is more buttoned-down with stricter rules. It's a place where our community can interact with each other and with our team to have constructive discussions about the game itself. We're protective of the atmosphere because we want to maintain it as a place where friends or foes can talk about the game without being sidetracked or distracted by posts that are unconstructive and don't help us make the game or customer experience better. 

The in-game rules are much looser. Aside from real-world threats and blatant hate speech ("elements of speech related to race, ethnicity, religion, country of origin and/or lifestyle preference"), players can smacktalk their little hearts out. 

In both the forums and the game, you can use an Ignore feature to block out people you don't care to hear from. Sometimes, that simple gesture can make your time on the forums far more pleasant. 

When it comes to forum warnings and bans, someone has to break the rules quite a few times to earn enough warning points for a suspension, and then it takes a few suspensions to build up enough warning points for a ban. Someone who's received that many warnings and hasn't learned from them probably isn't someone who's adding a lot of constructive value to the community. 

A ban is more like a long cool-down period. After 90-days, the ban can be appealed by contacting Support. (All of this is explained during the banning process. You don't have to call Tom Hanks to crack some super secret DaVinci code that tells you about a magical loophole.) I cannot think of a time when I flatly refused to honor a request for an appeal; however, there is a caveat to the reinstating of accounts - and I ask the appealee to acknowledge that they have read and understand this caveat. The caveat is that when a ban is lifted, if the person receives another warning point, the ban goes back into effect immediately and there is no chance for a second appeal. 

We ban players, not accounts, which is why there have been cases were someone may receive a ban for a post on one of multiple accounts they have but all of those accounts are banned. This is a policy Gordon has enforced for years for every game he's overseeing. 

Think of it this way. You own a restaurant. Someone comes in and starts insulting people at other tables. Maybe he throws a pint of beer at someone, maybe he sets fire to the napkins on a table. He's upsetting your other customers and hurting your business so, of course, you ask him to leave. If he immediately tries to come back in with a different credit card, he's still the troublesome customer, right? Does the fact that he's using a different credit card make it any better? Not really. (In our case, this is someone who's banned being allowed to stick around with another account, the "different credit card.") 

After some time, you let the customer back in. He does okay for a bit, but then goes right back to jacking up the place. You remember how he acted before, so you want to stop this ASAP before it causes more trouble for you and your other customers. (In our case, this would be us reinstating the ban after the next warning point.) By now you've come to accept that this particular customer simply isn't good for your restaurant and your other patrons. Hopefully, there's another restaurant that will enjoy his patronage and he'll be happy using his credit cards there. 

I hope this helps to explain why our policy is the way it is. 

 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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3 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

To @Pann,

Any reason why the links such as ToS, Rules of conduct, PrivacyPolicy, and Fair UsePolicy in the, forgot the name, botom of the mainsite link to travian's? Instead of Ace's that is.

3

You're seeing the Travian policies because you're a registered community member within their territory. NA community members in ACE's territory only see ACE's policies. If I remember correctly, the decision was made to avoid confusion by only showing the policies relevant to the user's territory. 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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Sincere Question,

How can any member have confidence that the "rules" are applied fairly and across the board?

Without bias nor favouritism?

I'd hate to think the decision to enforce a ban (for anyone of any faction) was left up to the sole discretion of a single person...god help any poster if that person is having a bad day, or already has a dislike for any particular person.

You use a restaurant client as an example above:

Why was a pint of beer thrown? - Why was there verbal insults? - Perhaps self-defence. 

You walked in the door from the kitchen, and saw what you saw...you didn't see what happened prior to walking into the room yourself.

This would then lead to welcoming back the "abusive client", apologizing to him/her...and probably throwing in a free dinner!

There is always a danger when you only consider part-facts and only view and interpret what you want. (generalised)

 

I have had this situation happen in RL during my private security days. A body guard was taken to court for assault/use of excessive force on the back of a photo and related parties to the complainant statements.

The photo was dramatic, and did look bad...but it ONLY showed a snap-shot...literally a millisecond in time.

When this got to court, we presented the video surveillance of 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after the event, full scope of area (the lead up, the accused incident, and the actions taken by the Body Guard (s))...

As I am sure your already guessing, the facts presented to the court, were not "real", were dishonest and misleading (lies).

Our company received an apology from the court, the complainant was severely reprimanded by the Judge (lucky wasn't charged, but we did not push it, the discrediting was enough for us), and the Police were also told to be more thorough and use some common sense in their investigation and judgement.

 

Also, (generalised)...any shop can have a "no returns policy after purchase"....fine, they can put anything they like into any policy they want. 

But..

If it is not substantiated in law, its worthless. If the law say returns must be given, then that negates the Policy statement.

People just need to be aware of the Law.

 

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One part of darkfall i enjoyed was the forum fall provided by guild politics against each other the debates were great however sadly it appears they rather just give warning out and ban people when heated guild debates happen between sides. I feel they were a little heavy handed in the regards to this handing out bans from my understanding perma bans were what was used in this case.
People just seem to be such sensitive little snowflakes this day and age it seems but anyway thats my 2 cents on this topic. If my 2 cent warrant another warning then feel free i guess.
 


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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A great topic for discussion, and well worth the effort required.

The other concern I have with this, is the caveat required for reinstatement...of a "control measure".

This assumes the person is guilty, and making them admit guilt, even when they may not be guilty and may in fact be the wronged person.

IMHO, this caveat needs to be removed forthwith.

 

So unless you do this....we won't do that...

I think there are words for this...yes?

 

I'll plead guilty to avoid the hangmans noose...and take life in prison....because the risk is too great...even though I know I am innocent...It happens!

 

Play the ball, not the man I say.

 

Where is the accountability of the controller, once outted for bias and hate of their own? - How can a complaint be made, without being intercepted by the said controller?

Where is the "public apology" when a person was banned unjustly? - It is asked that players admit their fault, even if possibly not their fault (the caveat)...where is the offset to that?

 

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4 hours ago, veeshan said:

One part of darkfall i enjoyed was the forum fall provided by guild politics against each other the debates were great however sadly it appears they rather just give warning out and ban people when heated guild debates happen between sides. I feel they were a little heavy handed in the regards to this handing out bans from my understanding perma bans were what was used in this case.
People just seem to be such sensitive little snowflakes this day and age it seems but anyway thats my 2 cents on this topic. If my 2 cent warrant another warning then feel free i guess.
 

It's basically horsepoorly made socks. Everyone needs to remember this. You can get mass reported by political enemies (that know your history, well,... because you used to play with them). Words on a forum can get you banned from the game. Mot racial epithets, not threats of violence, basically political banter. Not a good look for ACE, no matter how this gets spun. Doesn't give much faith in the integrity of this damned team.


.

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5 minutes ago, Armegeddon said:

It's basically horsepoorly made socks. Everyone needs to remember this. You can get mass reported by political enemies (that know your history, well,... because you used to play with them). Words on a forum can get you banned from the game. Mot racial epithets, not threats of violence, basically political banter. Not a good look for ACE, no matter how this gets spun. Doesn't give much faith in the integrity of this damned team.

Politic game with no politicing allowed :P 


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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My bank policy years ago was to allow reversing charges for every single transaction within 6 months for banning in game for outside game activity. They had a similar ToS, but as we know ToS is hard to enforce and many local laws will supercede it. 

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7 hours ago, Shiner said:

How can any member have confidence that the "rules" are applied fairly and across the board? Without bias nor favouritism?

1

I don't operate in a vacuum. There are a lot of people directly responsible for my paycheck that watch what I do. Sometimes they ask questions to get more information about why I issued a warning. For that reason, I carefully document everything. When someone is warned, they get a message that explains exactly what part of their post caused the warning and which rule is involved. 

There are some members of the community I know better than others, including some I've met in person. It is my responsibility and my personal mission to always be as fair as possible. Again, there are people on my team who will double-check my actions so I don't have free rein to be all willy-nilly with moderation. I have to be fair and I have to be unbiased. Checks and balances are in place to ensure that. 

7 hours ago, Shiner said:
6 hours ago, veeshan said:

One part of darkfall i enjoyed was the forum fall provided by guild politics against each other the debates were great however sadly it appears they rather just give warning out and ban people when heated guild debates happen between sides. I feel they were a little heavy handed in the regards to this handing out bans from my understanding perma bans were what was used in this case. People just seem to be such sensitive little snowflakes this day and age it seems but anyway thats my 2 cents on this topic. If my 2 cent warrant another warning then feel free i guess.
 

9
 

As I explained previously, someone has to break the rules numerous times to warrant a suspension and even more to get a ban. They have plenty of opportunities to make better choices. 

There are lots of pressure valves where people can get "gritty" with their interactions: guild forums, third-party websites, Discord channels, even in-game. We/I intentionally stay away from those channels. I feel like players need those spaces to be owned and used by themselves, without me sticking my nose in, so they can say what they want to say to whomever they wish. 

7 hours ago, Shiner said:
6 hours ago, Shiner said:

The other concern I have with this, is the caveat required for reinstatement...of a "control measure". This assumes the person is guilty, and making them admit guilt, even when they may not be guilty and may in fact be the wronged person.

Where is the accountability of the controller, once outted for bias and hate of their own? - How can a complaint be made, without being intercepted by the said controller? 

Where is the "public apology" when a person was banned unjustly? - It is asked that players admit their fault, even if possibly not their fault (the caveat)...where is the offset to that?

 

5

I think I covered most of this above. To answer the question "How can a complaint be made without being intercepted", that's where contacting Support comes in. I'm not actively monitoring the Support box; I only look at tickets when they are assigned to me. If a complaint or question comes in regarding moderation, it's usually bumped up to Gordon (if he hasn't seen it first himself). From there, he will contact me to ask what happened. I explain and show him the documentation. Then he, Jack or I will respond to the ticket, depending on the specific circumstances of the ticket. 

Insofar as a public apology goes, I will always freely admit my mistakes - even publicly if the situation warrants; however, no one has been "unjustly banned" from Crowfall. As mentioned before, I carefully document everything, so whatever rules were broken that led to the ban aren't iffy, it's actual stuff the person posted that caused the warnings and ultimately the ban. 

1 hour ago, Armegeddon said:

It's basically horsepoorly made socks. Everyone needs to remember this. You can get mass reported by political enemies (that know your history, well,... because you used to play with them). Words on a forum can get you banned from the game. Mot racial epithets, not threats of violence, basically political banter. Not a good look for ACE, no matter how this gets spun. Doesn't give much faith in the integrity of this damned team.

There have been cases where multiple people reported a thread or a post. Just because something is reported doesn't mean it's actionable, it just means there's something happening that I need to investigate and so I do. Very often, nothing in the whole thread is actionable so I don't need to step in and moderate. 

1 hour ago, veeshan said:

Politic game with no politicing allowed :P 

Political banter isn't completely off-limits, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it on our forum. Again, if you want to go full-throttle on someone, you'll need to do that outside of our forum and there are plenty of places to do that. 

1 hour ago, bear said:

Thank you sir for answering my quuestion and moving my post to the correct forum.

You're welcome. (And I'm not a guy. 😃 )


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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3 hours ago, Pann said:

As I explained previously, someone has to break the rules numerous times to warrant a suspension and even more to get a ban. They have plenty of opportunities to make better choices. 

There are lots of pressure valves where people can get "gritty" with their interactions: guild forums, third-party websites, Discord channels, even in-game. We/I intentionally stay away from those channels. I feel like players need those spaces to be owned and used by themselves, without me sticking my nose in, so they can say what they want to say to whomever they wish. 

 

I think we can all agree as a community that we would like to see consistency in moderation. You have not demonstrated that at all as our Director of Community.

I appreciate you staying away from our 3rd party sites as we don't want your biases enforced there as well.

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13 minutes ago, Gaiawyn said:

I'm a bit saddened that Pann had to take the time to spell this out, but also glad that she did.

 

Play Fair, Be Nice, Stay Safe!

 

The only reason I asked was because I couldn't believe that anyone got banned in game for the stuff that was posted in the Uncle Bob thread.  I loved reading and forumfalling in past games like SB and Datkfall . I wouldn't want anyone foe or friend to lose access to play the game over nothing.

My opinion is the original post from J Todd was a troll to begin with. He brought up oldschool shadowbane and an an oldschool forum war was started. There was Calimath and drama and everythiing else that was missing to make this place interesting.

 

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18 minutes ago, bear said:

The only reason I asked was because I couldn't believe that anyone got banned in game for the stuff that was posted in the Uncle Bob thread.  I loved reading and forumfalling in past games like SB and Datkfall . I wouldn't want anyone foe or friend to lose access to play the game over nothing.

My opinion is the original post from J Todd was a troll to begin with. He brought up oldschool shadowbane and an an oldschool forum war was started. There was Calimath and drama and everythiing else that was missing to make this place interesting.

 

Rollin 30's is some old school sb


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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12 hours ago, Shiner said:

Sincere Question,

How can any member have confidence that the "rules" are applied fairly and across the board?

Without bias nor favouritism?

I'd hate to think the decision to enforce a ban (for anyone of any faction) was left up to the sole discretion of a single person...god help any poster if that person is having a bad day, or already has a dislike for any particular person.

Why do you think they got rid of the ego-driven player mods? :^)


231e101d88.jpg

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