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Question about forums

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@Pann so wait, you would rather us use 3rd party sites and media than use the official CF forums? If we used these 3rd party sites and spit vitriol then we would not be judged and punished here? I for one, for the sake of transparency and some control, would think that the official CF forums would be the vehicle of choice. It would decrease traffic to these forums and that just doesn't sound good for Art+Craft/CF to me.  


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22 hours ago, Pann said:

The in-game rules are much looser. Aside from real-world threats and blatant hate speech ("elements of speech related to race, ethnicity, religion, country of origin and/or lifestyle preference"), players can smacktalk their little hearts out. 

My Ranger was called a "dirty human" just the other day with no consequence that I've seen... What gives?

 

17 hours ago, Shiner said:

How can any member have confidence that the "rules" are applied fairly and across the board?

Without bias nor favouritism?

I'd hate to think the decision to enforce a ban (for anyone of any faction) was left up to the sole discretion of a single person...god help any poster if that person is having a bad day, or already has a dislike for any particular person.

You use a restaurant client as an example above:


You beat me to asking this question, @Shiner. There is a certain streamer of this game that is not only controversial MOST of the time, but often has a host of toadies that upvote his posts and report any post saying anything negative. If any of those negative posts involve any smidge of forum rule-breaking about them, then well you're looking at a warning from Pann, and the post will also be deleted most likely. And Pann is just doing his job, no hatred or calling-out there... but there is definitely some overwhelming "numbers game" that can potentially go on on the forums and limit your viewpoint. 

The Crowfall forums do not enjoy the freedom of free speech. Mostly because anything involving the invocation of free speech probably doesn't involve testing at all lol. 

Not everyone can be @mandalore, being able to say what makes sense without getting punished (I'm sure he has gotten plenty of warnings), but we can all strive to be so lol. 

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58 minutes ago, Samulus said:


Not everyone can be @mandalore, being able to say what makes sense without getting punished (I'm sure he has gotten plenty of warnings), but we can all strive to be so lol. 

I def get in trouble to but mostly when I just starting attacking people.  I rarely contend warnings; it’s their house and I know the rules.  One thing I can say though is I’ve never had mods like Tyrant, Pann and Jackal who actually communicate with you and not just talking at you.  People forget that we are consumers and this is their damn job.


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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On 2/23/2019 at 4:58 PM, excellz said:

Crazy idea - what if there was a forum that was literally "no-holds barred" and had very little to no moderation?  If people want to spit, stew, and sit in toxic discourse - let them roll around like a pig in mud there.

It wouldn’t work.  Somebody would eventually doxx, threaten, call somebody a racial slur, denegrate somebody’s sexual preference or any other of a hundred no no’s.  Less relaxed rules for political banter sure, a Wild West forum free of moderation would never work.  I’ve been on boards like that and by far been one of the worst offenders and I’m telling you it’s a bad bad place.

 

If somebody were to violate the rules in a serious manner (doxxing, racial slurs or any things on par with that) then I absolute see banning their forum and in game account.  A repeat offender get warned a half dozen+ times over years of testing probably knows they need to behave.  As a repeat offender with multiple warnings I know I have to behave because the mods have told me I have to.  I know if I start flaming posts or calling people custardtards I’m done so guess what?  I don’t flame posts or call people custardtards. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Banning in game and on the forums for a forum situation is ridiculous. They are two different situations. Most of the ppl who act all hard and e-tough here and usually very tame and even nice if you talk to them in game, rarely have i seen the toxic of the forums translate to in game, so to take a perma-ban from forum actions to in game actions to me is plain and simply stupid. But yea, its their BBQ, we are just the guests, thing they have to remember though, too many rules at that BBQ will get ppl to just go to the dozen or so other BBQs that are out there. You do not have to play to crush when modding.


 

"tell the world that it is the will of the gods that my Rome be head of all the world."

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On 2/23/2019 at 8:33 PM, gracen said:

@Pann so wait, you would rather us use 3rd party sites and media than use the official CF forums? If we used these 3rd party sites and spit vitriol then we would not be judged and punished here? I for one, for the sake of transparency and some control, would think that the official CF forums would be the vehicle of choice. It would decrease traffic to these forums and that just doesn't sound good for Art+Craft/CF to me.  

 

Yeah, @gracen, that's the crux of it. Anything that happens in Vegas (or /r/crowfall or any other venue we don't directly control) is not our business. We're not out to police the internet. People who want to talk about Crowfall with other Crowfall community members and the dev team will continue to come to our forum and social media channels. We're perfectly happy to let players have all the other community hubs they want that are beyond our purview. 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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16 hours ago, mandalore said:

It wouldn’t work.  Somebody would eventually doxx, threaten, call somebody a racial slur, denegrate somebody’s sexual preference or any other of a hundred no no’s.  Less relaxed rules for political banter sure, a Wild West forum free of moderation would never work.  I’ve been on boards like that and by far been one of the worst offenders and I’m telling you it’s a bad bad place.

 

If somebody were to violate the rules in a serious manner (doxxing, racial slurs or any things on par with that) then I absolute see banning their forum and in game account.  A repeat offender get warned a half dozen+ times over years of testing probably knows they need to behave.  As a repeat offender with multiple warnings I know I have to behave because the mods have told me I have to.  I know if I start flaming posts or calling people custardtards I’m done so guess what?  I don’t flame posts or call people custardtards. 

I totally agree with this; go back and read the Uncle Bob thread and let me know what was said in there to warrant an in game  permaban? 

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5 minutes ago, bear said:

I totally agree with this; go back and read the Uncle Bob thread and let me know what was said in there to warrant an in game  permaban? 

That’s not as straightforward as you are making it out to be.  Not all offenders are equal.  Some of us have been getting warnings for years and are probationary status.  We know if we break the rules we get a harsher punishment.  If I get released from jail and the probation officer tells me to keep my nose clean but then I go and custard around; my ass goes back.  This isn’t any different.  I promise you that Pann doesn’t want to be a probation officer, she wants to do her job with as little punishment as possible but if we act like asshats for 4+ years then her hands are tied. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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1 hour ago, mandalore said:

That’s not as straightforward as you are making it out to be.  Not all offenders are equal.  Some of us have been getting warnings for years and are probationary status.  We know if we break the rules we get a harsher punishment.  If I get released from jail and the probation officer tells me to keep my nose clean but then I go and custard around; my ass goes back.  This isn’t any different.  I promise you that Pann doesn’t want to be a probation officer, she wants to do her job with as little punishment as possible but if we act like asshats for 4+ years then her hands are tied. 

I know what you mean but that is tricky, man.

I mean, acummulating enough offenses through years can get you a ban?  You cant just accumulate and sum that stuff up. No matter how many times  I call someone stupid, it wont ever be comparable with the real nasty stuff.

There must be a minimum douchebaggery for a ban to be considered. You cant just go 'eh, he was annoying. Did it too much. Too troublesome so ban'. Either someone does something real bad and gets it or not. If all it needed was the addition of some childish-level thing (which really is what happened) to go to ban, maybe you ought to have gone with it before.

You will should never go to the eletric chair for jaywalking. No matter how many times you do it.

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59 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I know what you mean but that is tricky, man.

I mean, acummulating enough offenses through years can get you a ban?  You cant just accumulate and sum that stuff up. No matter how many times  I call someone stupid, it wont ever be comparable with the real nasty stuff.

There must be a minimum douchebaggery for a ban to be considered. You cant just go 'eh, he was annoying. Did it too much. Too troublesome so ban'. Either someone does something real bad and gets it or not. If all it needed was the addition of some childish-level thing (which really is what happened) to go to ban, maybe you ought to have gone with it before.

You will should never go to the eletric chair for jaywalking. No matter how many times you do it.

You’re assumption is that all he ever did was jaywalk.  If you’re know you’re on probation and you know the police are watching you then I suggest you use the crosswalk. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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On 2/22/2019 at 11:41 PM, Pann said:

The forum is more buttoned-down with stricter rules.

Good to know. In many RPGs, the forums are treated as an extension of the game itself.

With the removal of General Chat, this seems the natural place for us to to have our smack talk and rabble rousing.

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On 2/24/2019 at 7:31 AM, Gaiawyn said:

I'm a bit saddened that Pann had to take the time to spell this out, but also glad that she did.

 

Play Fair, Be Nice, Stay Safe!

 

Many people dont play a few people exploit bugs the moment they been discovered and all of which go rather unpunished, ive seen mastery of shield exploit being used rather rampant by some guilds cant name any since warning/bands can happen cause of it. Ive seen camp fires being dropped to crash people out of the game looted a few campfires from aswell 3 so far all from the same certain guild.
The first siege on this campaign we had a rather interesting crash that mimics the same thing that happens with the campfire crashes which happened when that same guild couldnt push into a certain keep, crash was actually a turning point for that seige aswell since it through the defending side into chaos which was organised before that crash, harder to keep small guilds organised after a crash compared to one larger guild. Of course no way to prove it appart from the crash resembles it and it was rather convient timing the server was running stable aswell and rather lag free considering all that was happening at the seige.

Only mentioning this because clearly some people arnt playing fair and clearly there hasnt been any punishment for this i can understand why cause to look into these kinda things take times which in my option isnt worth doing in pre alpha testing, rather the devs spend the time on the game instead. However when you start throwing a perma ban hammer on somone who gets in a heated politic debate with people over the forums and then not punish people who are actualy in game abusing bugs constantly they find its a little disheartening to see. Did the person in this case deserve a punishment yeah probaly did he deserve a perma ban definitely not it was simply politic debatings. If you dont like him on the forums then remove access to that not the game itself. You could have punished him a great deal simply by temp banning him till the campaign ended cause he would of lost all his equipment. 
If your gonna start banning people for politics debates on the forums could we atleast request a section on the forums where we can discuss these things without the risk of being perma banned. This type of game you will get these debates often and quite often they will get heated atleast give them a section on the forums to debate ingame politics, its harder to do in game now because we dont have general chat anymore so the forums will be the next place they come to.


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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On 2/24/2019 at 10:43 AM, weaponsx said:

being nice in a political game ...smh... I guess after a fight we all go sing around the camp fire ??

We cant sing around a camp fire it will crash us out of the game :P


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Where I live we have a demerit system for driving.  I believe it applies to how these forums are run.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Full Driving License Demerit Points

As a fully licensed driver, you can accumulate up to 15 demerit points before your driver’s license is suspended.

Here is a breakdown of the penalties for demerit points for fully licensed drivers in Ontario :

  • 2 to 8 points : You will receive a letter of warning.
  • 9 to 14 points: Your driver’s license could be suspended, and you may have to attend a meeting to discuss your driving record and why your license should not be suspended at this time. A $50 fee for the demerit point meeting applies.
  • 15 or more points : You will receive an automatic 30-day license suspension. You will be required to surrender your driver’s license. You can do this in person at any Service Ontario Centre. Failure to surrender your driver’s license could result in a 2-year suspension.

Once the suspension is over, you may need to take a vision, written, and road test again. If you pass, your license will be reinstated and the demerit points on your record will be reduced to 7.

Demerit points stay on your record for two years from the date of the offence. Once the two years has passed, they are removed from your driving record.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Stupid little warnings and slap on the wrists should net you a point or 2 and roll off your record.

Major issues can give you 10-14 points.  But eventually they need to roll off.

You can't force people to play a game with a knife to their throats.

 

I think the community relations team needs to take a step back and remember some of what MMO forums are for:

1. A place to blow off steam after intense action

2. A place to complain when things aren't going their way in game

3. A place to get under the enemies skin to drive in game action

4. A place potential customers go to see if the game is alive, to help decide if they wish to purchase.

 

I believe point #4 is the most important.  Some of the first questions everyone always asks when joining a game late:

Is there population? Is there conflict?  Is it a grind to catch up?  If the forums are dead because you drove them offsite.  You're killing your own game!

 

For me a week back from playing Atlas.  I feel that you guys are missing the mark when it comes to customer relations.  Please fix some of your systems.

 

Also we're mostly pvp'ers and not sheep.  We do remember when a company screws us or screws over friends.  In a hypothectical situation if you banned a 70$ account of some guy using aimbot 99% of the people would have no issues.  But if you banned accounts worth upwards of $10,000 for a guy running his mouth on the forums I'd almost guarentee less than 25% of people would agree with that.  Obviously everybody does not know the entire story for specifics bans that have already happened.

 

TLDR FREE THE INOCENTS THAT YOU HAVE BANNED!

 

Edited by Sloppy

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"players can smacktalk their little hearts out"

"Political banter isn't completely off-limits, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it
 on our forum"


I have a number of warnings and some have major underpinnings related to those few accounts that have had real and permanent action taken against them, but I do support Pann in her efforts to keep player posts somewhat civil and as far from actual real life hate as possible.   There are ways to make a point and ways to stir the pot...   you go in trying to stir a pot, you can and will eventually go over a line.   

Political intrigue will be a thing and the various guild officers and leaders will once again face both justified and idiotic behaviors in players that will make a difference in how the game plays out.   Most of us can shrug off personal one on one grudges between our players that boil down to small stuff, tossed insults, and overblown ego's.   We have to police our players or face consequences that can become poor drivers for guild's to go to war.  We don't want to roll out and declare an enemy because one solo harvester got jumped or an insult was hurled, leadership requires some maturity to settle disputes without declaring another guild an enemy.   Guilds will need friends and allies whether they are small, medium, or large...   smack talk and bravado are simply distractions from real political issues like leveling and farming area control and strategic maneuvers.   I would hope my peers after all of our years being both friends and rivals across multiple games can and will recognize legitimate grievances from manufactured strife and make political decisions accordingly.   The lamest wars start over smack talk, the best wars start over in game strategic maneuvers.

Once we begin in a GvG world rather than a Faction world every red player is either a future enemy OR ally...   acting in the same red=dead mentality that is fine in Faction play will make you a host of enemies in GvG…   good way to get put down for a campaign.   It isn't just Pann policing behavior, the guild officers and leaders also have to keep the hot heads in line.

p.s.  I sure hope we can set guilds to red, yellow, blue or green to show varying levels of friend-foe relationships...   hard enough to see and recognize sigils and nameplates and keep a kill hungry player base from making a political mis-step.

 

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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Can anyone answer my question? What in the Uncle Bob Thread would be a reason for anyone to be perma banned in game? Everyone is making like this is standard procedures in games but it's not. I can see getting banned for hate speach, exploiting, using cheats but for normal political banter.?

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As a poster in variuos forum of different MMO since 2008, I'm absolutely sure perma ban is a standard procedure.

I confess initially I was unaware about this fact, but each of said game is a private service in which exist rules of conduct to be observed.
Legally whenever a person breack these rules, owner of the service are in right of terminate this service.

Social media have themselves some rules of conduct which are the most possibly loose due to the kind of service offered.
I suppose you believed these are an universal standard,  but it is not exact.
Each owner of a service has his own rules and the burden to know them is all on persons who intend use that service.


Catelyn: War will make them old, as it did us. I pity them.
Mathis: Why? Look at them. They're young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?
Catelyn: Because it will not last. Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.

A Clash of Kings, Chapter 22, Catelyn II.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crowfall Discord Channels: international (english) - italiano

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When a situation warrants disciplinary action, we prefer to only issue warnings (that may or may not include warning points), but we may escalate to temporary suspensions to allow a cool-down period. Some incidents can (and repeated incidents will) lead to permanent suspension including loss of communication privileges, access to the game and/or any pledges or Crowfall store credits associated with the account. After a 90-day cool-down period, permanent suspensions may be appealed once by contacting support@crowfall.com.

 

https://crowfall.com/en-US/artcraft/rules-of-conduct/


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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