Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
Khenjin

Ruining campaigns

Recommended Posts

You can brag about your elite organization in an alpha game and your elite pvp skills while you sell your trash on AT that most of us find a big upgrade. lol. #'s mean jack and squat when you are geared to the teeth vs so many on the other side. Banding together to get a gold badge is so lol compared to what I remember of WB in SB. I was in Dissent and we actually had some epic fights (many we won.. perhaps not all) where #'s and gear were close to even and good game was spoken by many afterwards. The one siege where a guild came to help us and we banded together to trash that guild before resuming the siege. (we won)  I just dont see the point in "being serious" about a game if it makes the game less fun. Or perhaps you really had fun when you had no chance to lose this last campaign. I'd think as geared as you all are and with the knowledge that you yourselves claim you have that you would look for a challenge and not lol fights.. I just dont remember this version of WB from previous games. I guess it's a new time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Grivyn said:

To be frank, WB meddling in the EU campaign actually goes to prove a point in favour of how a well geared and played 2-3 groups can make an impact against larger numbers of inferior geared/vesselled players. Those of us in Chaos new it was coming this weekend and expected it, as for Crem's militia as an active part of it I cant say enough praise for the effort Crem has put into this campaign to rally the various NA players active in this EU campaign and get them into some semi coherent fighting force. That has at least made the EU campaign competitive. Without the Militia I would think the EU campaign would be only slightly less 1 sided as the NA empty fields campaign.   

Please tell me how competetive it is to be twice the force and night capturing? NA trashed their campaign, went to EU and trashed it aswell. What's so "competetive" about it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2-3 well geared groups of chimps could make an impact against inferior geared/vesselled players. The advantage is HUGE. Any talk of #'s in any fight is meaningless without a gear score. Gear is the end all be all to be competitive. Many many newer players just dont have what it takes to compete. Now sure some guys are just going to be great no matter how close the gear but fights would be a lot better. So while I love the spirit of Play to Crush I also want this game to do really well. I hope how often geared guys roll those trying to level up doesnt drive them away. I think it was probably worse this campaign with how more guilds flocked to one faction. We should all hope for growth of this game if we want it to succeed. Keeping that in mind while still playing to crush might be a delicate road to follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's just silly noise... One of WB's own guys said " Mostly blues with a smattering of greens thrown in for armors and jewels.  Most weapons, not all, are purple.  That’s where we are at. It’s a huge advantage" in another thread. I'm not knocking him as he was just being honest at how big a matter gear is in this game. Blending this knowledge with play 2 crush while also promoting an environment that attracts new people is where the aim should be. Not doing whatever it takes to get a shiny badge. /shrug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Luthare said:

That's just silly noise... One of WB's own guys said " Mostly blues with a smattering of greens thrown in for armors and jewels.  Most weapons, not all, are purple.  That’s where we are at. It’s a huge advantage" in another thread. I'm not knocking him as he was just being honest at how big a matter gear is in this game. Blending this knowledge with play 2 crush while also promoting an environment that attracts new people is where the aim should be. Not doing whatever it takes to get a shiny badge. /shrug

You’re quoting me, I’m not in Winterblades; I’m HoA.  The reason we have an advantage is because there are people willing to put in the roughly 5-8 hours to farm a set of gear and then there are people who don’t.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Luthare said:

2-3 well geared groups of chimps could make an impact against inferior geared/vesselled players. The advantage is HUGE. Any talk of #'s in any fight is meaningless without a gear score. Gear is the end all be all to be competitive. Many many newer players just dont have what it takes to compete. Now sure some guys are just going to be great no matter how close the gear but fights would be a lot better. So while I love the spirit of Play to Crush I also want this game to do really well. I hope how often geared guys roll those trying to level up doesnt drive them away. I think it was probably worse this campaign with how more guilds flocked to one faction. We should all hope for growth of this game if we want it to succeed. Keeping that in mind while still playing to crush might be a delicate road to follow.

Gear makes a huge difference but if you think for a moment the established dominate guilds main advantage is gear then you’re making excuses.  Many of us have been testing CF for years.  We are all in highly organized guilds and some of us have played organized siege games for years (Winterblades were playing the successor to Crowfall since 2003 together).  We run organized min / max spec groups and don’t allow underperforming specs (regardless of fun) to be brought to serious fights.  All of that combined with better gear, better vessels, is a huge advantage but that’s how the game is intended to be played.   


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, mandalore said:

All of that combined with better gear, better vessels, is a huge advantage but that’s how the game is intended to be played.   

That is not how the game was promoted at kickstarter.  Gating basic class skills behind levels, heck even levels were not supposed to be in the game. pve gear grind to pvp was not part of the game. large power differences between gear was not supposed to be in this game. Its damn sad that player skill is currently the lowest determining factor for pvp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

That is not how the game was promoted at kickstarter.  Gating basic class skills behind levels, heck even levels were not supposed to be in the game. pve gear grind to pvp was not part of the game. large power differences between gear was not supposed to be in this game. Its damn sad that player skill is currently the lowest determining factor for pvp. 

And how did you come to that conclusion? You think your skill is superior but your just held back by your inability to harvest or craft?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I’ve seen, the ability to properly play your character seems to be the most important factor in determining success...not the least.

Edited by Olric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mystafyi said:

From dev statements, videos and their own FAQ and website over the years. 

Levels are a new thing (/me kicks festering heap that used to be a dead horse), but the player economy, harvesting, crafting of all gear, skill development, promotion classes... all of that has been the plan for a long time if not from the start.

In the video Crowfall - In Depth Overview & Gameplay from April of 15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDThqxoRhSM, they discussed training skill proficiency through both active and passive training, and how the promotion classes would be gated behind that skill training. If you were to put both leveling and skill training side by side, I'm betting the system we have would get you off the sidelines and into the fight faster.

Looking back to the video Crowfall - Harvesting & Crafting Demo from Nov of 16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-6LF3IyzCw, the basics of harvesting and crafting is essentially unchanged, right down to Blair's failed suit of armor. That video was the point where I decided CF was something I needed to follow more closely.

Edited by VaMei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mystafyi said:

That is not how the game was promoted at kickstarter.  Gating basic class skills behind levels, heck even levels were not supposed to be in the game. pve gear grind to pvp was not part of the game. large power differences between gear was not supposed to be in this game. Its damn sad that player skill is currently the lowest determining factor for pvp. 

 

Exactly what I think. There has been a serious deviation in the direction of the project caused perhaps by feedback from veteran players who wanted to add powercreep mechanics through grind just to have a "Play to Crush" game and this inevitably generates uncle bob, ie the original project based on balance between players has been diverted to korean MMORPG with "play to crush" grind, where players have an advantage that is virtually invincible at certain times of the campaign while others virtually struggle in vain.

How to solve this? Well in my view the first thing is to reduce powercreep and uncle bob. Reduce the advantage provided by gear to a new model based on percent advantage rather than absolute numbers. My project is that the player with more ilvl get a small percentage advantage over the player with less ilvl, ie instead of having double status, damage, healing, HP, he would have a 10-20% damage  reduction (can be a damage bonus) against the enemy with lower ilvl, ie the player with better equipment would be more powerful, but not necessarily OP. Of course this would justify the grind and progression because reduction/bonus in damage is a great advantage in any PvP. Unfortunately, the DEVs heard a lot of players who just wanted a "play to crush" style PVP and abandoned the original design of creating a PVP game with low grind and focused on thrones war battles where anyone can win.

The system I propose is something that avoids uncle bob scenario, decreases the powercreep permanently and balances new and old players. The grind would continue to be worth only, as a 10% -20% advantage can be important in battles, although not sure of winning and skill factor would be the main in a primary PVP game.

Edited by hamon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, hamon said:

 

...   There has been a serious deviation in the direction of the project caused perhaps by feedback from veteran players who wanted to add powercreep mechanics through grind just to have a "Play to Crush" game and this inevitably generates uncle bob, ie the original project based on balance between players has been diverted to korean MMORPG with "play to crush" grind, where players have an advantage that is virtually invincible at certain times of the campaign while others virtually struggle in vain.

 

I don't see much deviation of the project especially since the kickstarter had such little detail about grind specifics.  Given the team had such strong Shadowbane roots it seems hard to imagine the game would stray so far from the original to remove the game layers that require time investments, like levelling characters, building specs groups,  rolling perfect gear, farming to build cities,etc...

 Being an old Shadowbane player it seems like as the project develops it is getting closer to what I expected.  The locked character/class/race MOBAish Hungerdome was the radical departure for me and I am happy that they have flushed out the design more to make it closer to Shadowbane and allow for the complexity, effort and organization that main stream games avoid in fear of scaring away players that are averse to investing time and effort into their PvP games.

Also as a new player that has worked to grind up resources to craft decent gear, leveled vessels,etc.  Your assumption that grinding makes you invincible is unfounded,  it makes you tougher sure but certainly nothing close to invincible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 7:49 PM, mandalore said:

It exists in every game and in CF it’s going to be even more apparent as the community canabalizes itself.  I firmly think that casual players are going to get eaten up and spat out by the more organized guilds.  CF isn’t a game that’s as focused on individual skill as most people would think at first glance.  Cf is a game about time investment and groups being organized, individual skill is secondary. 

TLDR; people who don’t have time now are unlikely to invest the time needed to get ahead later. 

When Mandalore stoops to making an actual true and informative post you all should listen.   We have a lot of new players and small guilds, many will have to join, sub or be assimilated, resistance is futile.   If you want to learn and at each reset/wipe get better at the production aspect of the game, choosing a mentor guild is not a bad start.   Pick my brain, or Srathor's, Ahnrez's, Ussiah's…   there are a number of senpei quite willing to share knowledge 

 


6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, hamon said:

There has been a serious deviation in the direction of the project caused perhaps by feedback from veteran players who wanted to add powercreep mechanics through grind just to have a "Play to Crush" game and this inevitably generates uncle bob

This is very inaccurate, the leveling grind came from suggestions by NEW players more used to theme park leveling game asking for active progression.   It absolutely did not com from veteran players wanting to further gate progression behind a grind, in fact, many of us vets hate the new leveling and its time sink that we had for years gotten along very well without.    I have leveled 4 white vessels, 5 blue and one purple...  I don't even want a legendary vessel because 30 or so more stats isn't worth a week of doing nothing but killing spiders, zombies, and cats.   I truly despise the level grind and think that my peers probably do as well, at least those with many accounts...   this hit multi-account multi-boxer's pretty hard in the privates and you think we wanted it?   lul.

p.s. there was always a call for making it hard on multi-accounts, leveling does that to a degree but it gates single account users and casuals too,  We can still stack a pile of afk and grind multiple accounts at once... 

 

Edited by Frykka

6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Player skill matters but I think levels/gear/FoTM spec trumps player skill in this game currently.

I hope the new character controller in 5.9 lets ACE tighten combat and aiming a good bit so that player skill matters more. Flattening the weapon power curve helped quite a bit but the same needs to be done to HP inflation on armor. There's probably some other areas that need to be addressed as far as item power curve such as necklaces that give +10% basic attack damage that with a minor rune you can wear two of. In the case of a Titan Myrmidon that's 40% of the capstone talent's power in 2 items. 

ACE is trying to appeal to PVP players and harvesters/crafters alike but the two are at odds with one another. The more ACE appeals to PVP players to increase player skill cap and lower gear power curve the less those harvesters/crafters matter. 

At the end of the day ACE has to remember which side their bread is buttered on. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, blazzen said:

At the end of the day ACE has to remember which side their bread is buttered on. 

 

Is that bread made with gluten?


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...