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damebix

Petition - Simple Fixing You Can Do Today!

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Fefner said:

there is no reason to defend places because you will just retake it later in the loop of taking stuff. 

It's worse than that. If you are trying for the gold medal, you are competing with your allies for top slots more than your enemy. If you work to prevent back-capping, not only are you not capturing circles, you are preventing your enemy from giving you circles to capture.

Win trading does not need to be a formal arrangement when everyone can see it's to their mutual advantage.

Edited by VaMei
Because Krakken

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, VaMei said:

It's worse than that. If you are trying for gold, you are competing with your allies for top slots more than your enemy. If you work to prevent back-capping, not only are you not capturing circles, you are preventing your enemy from giving you circles to capture.

Win trading does not need to be a formal arrangement when everyone can see it's to their mutual advantage.

If you are trying to farm guards for gold, you are doing gold wrong.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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19 hours ago, mandalore said:

What do you think is going to happen in dregs when there aren't factions for smaller guilds to use?  The zone cap is about performance concerns, not protecting smaller guilds.

This isnt the dregs, it is factions and need to realize playing in factions is much different. Zone caps is a totally different issue in which I believe we all agree on and are all attempting to manage. The capping back and forth is a strategy in the context of the rules and the creators of the game. 

18 hours ago, Medicaid said:

i enjoy playing this game. healing my people, farming whatever ore. wood . gold, exp to lvl up people...

the idea of logging into a video game to stand still and do nothing while u capture a fort, tower or outpost seems really odd to me.

and then to make that worth 99% of the points u earn to claim a victory and "win" seems to make an even worse idea.

 

an easier fix could be to make keeps n forts worth less, make kills worth more. or is it possible to make deaths subtract from thier faction score?

 

maybe once zone caps are increased we could have a CW with just 1 keep to fight for.

maybe once zone caps are increased we could have a CW with only 1 POI for each resource type (instead of each faction gettin thier own adventure zone with all 3 types in it, say...balance adv zone gets wood, chaos gets stone, order gets ore for example each being 3x bigger than they currently are)

 

help me out with another thought..why do forts even exist? why do we have so many?

right now we  have some high rank forts, with some useful stuff to farm... (reducing players in POI's thus decreasing their effectiveness / use )

right now we get a bonus to craft in a keep...forts offer the same crafting tables (minus jewlery making), but no bonus

 forts also offer a statue to respawn at, but with several rune gates per zone does this even matter anymore?

 

is it possible to offer more uses to these forts, like, u must own fort X to activate X runegate to another zone

i dont know, maybe that idea is bad, but as for right now, i just cant seem to care about owning this fort, or that fort, it holds no value to me other than that precious circle.

 

 

I like some of these ideas! Forts should be worth something more. Defending them should be easier and take longer to capture in order for the other factions to be notified and respond. A fast travel to the fort during the beginning of the fort attack but not allowed after you have fast traveled once to the fort with a timer for 30 mins or something.

12 hours ago, Jah said:

To some degree this does actually work. We've found some fights that way. It is not as effective as back-capping, though. And once you find the opponent in this manner and kill them, they will go somewhere else to back-cap. The time you spend chasing them is not as effective for getting points as the time they spend avoiding combat to cap. If you want to beat them on points, you stand in circles rather than chasing them from zone to zone.

agreed but once again, it is one strategy that can be implemented. The OP ideas force the other factions and forces into playing a certain way to "win" instead of having options to play to win.

12 hours ago, mandalore said:

Forts take minutes to take and you can spend upwards of 20 minutes getting to some.  How are we supposed to defend them?  Have 10 people at all of them? 

be the tactician you are and figure it out. Decide if you can figure out their tactics and cut them off, often the capture of the outposts is done with 1 group or LESS, why do you need 10 people to defend? if you ahve 10 people wanting to stop the taking of outposts then send 5 one way and the other 5 another... that is a lazy argument

11 hours ago, moneda said:

The server play time is literally 24 hours a day. 

EXACTLY!!! +100, there are times when very few people are on but they want to "help" the faction, outposts is one of those ways...

11 hours ago, Jah said:

Given some of the feedback in this thread, it seems that the outpost and fort capping system is being defended because it represents a way to catch up with the people who are holding keeps. It is in that context that I say running around capping is more "effective" than looking for pvp.

I don't think "back-capping" is so much a pejorative against the people who are doing it, as a pejorative against the mechanics that reward it. If the objective is to win the campaign, you are better off capping undefended outposts and forts than looking for a good fight.

it is a strategy that allows for a catch up or atleast make it competitive, PvP doesnt necessarily mean ?v? but can mean a fight over the land, over the POIs, and the actual engagements. Lets play the full game not the aspects just one side wants, this isnt LoL(mentioned in the thread).

9 hours ago, Phylor.the.Jester said:

I find some validity from more or less everyone in this thread beyond the people thinking that some of these active players are alts. Particularly @Medelyn.

It does seem that most seem to think that the circle standing mechanic is somewhat flawed. I actually kind of like Srathor's idea of doing something with the land for points as well but that would require making sure there are things to actually do on that land. Could be an interesting long term fix.

The current outpost mechanic is probably the most painful because there is very little pvp reward for going around and standing in said circles. I do agree with those that want something to be available for smaller groups of people to be able to contribute, particularly on factions which is where more incoming players would show up. The argument for something to be available to those who play at off hours is a good concern as well. I'm not sure that outposts the way they are really are provided with any content from the outposts as they exist. It might be kind of interesting if there were stashes of things that generated over time at the outposts that people could grab or steal if they took the outpost from another faction giving some more activity to people traveling to them/turning them over. Would likely require a reduction in the amount of outposts though.

Making the towers actually act like sentries and sending out alerts to a faction if they see multiple enemies in an area might be interesting as well whether or not they were actually attacked.

 

We're stuck in a weird spot where we have guilds that are wanting to play on the Dregs in a bit more competitive/hardcore setting but ultimately that just is not available at this time. I've spent more hours recently that I'd like to admit doing the circle standing stuff. I've got some decently fun fights from it like earlier this morning but most of it is just afk standing waiting for the circle to turn.

It is nice to see things active though both in terms of how strongly people feel about the game as well as how hard some are working to pull themselves back into contention.

 

damn I hate you @Phylor.the.Jester, i agree with everything you say here....

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2 minutes ago, VaMei said:

It's worse than that. If you are trying for gold, you are competing with your allies for top slots more than your enemy. If you work to prevent back-capping, not only are you not capturing circles, you are preventing your enemy from giving you circles to capture.

Win trading does not need to be a formal arrangement when everyone can see it's to their mutual advantage.

That's a valid point regarding personal score, campaign awards and back capping. 

1 hour rolling vulnerability windows on forts would solve the back capping issue both from a PVP generating perspective and from a personal score perspective as it would limit the availability of capturing forts. Especially if multiple forts are vulnerable at the same time and the windows end and capture happens simultaneously you can't be in two places at once. 

Outposts will have the same back capping issue as forts do for personal score. My suggestion for outposts is to just reduce the amount of personal score they give to where 1 hour of capping outposts would be equivalent to capping 1 fort.  Then the activities are equivalent in what they give, they're just geared towards different size groups. 

I think the sources and types of activities that grant personal score will change as time goes on. There has to be combat, exploration and crafting methods of gaining personal score so everyone's campaign contributions count. The difficulty will be balancing them such that there's no one best way to gain personal score so players spend time doing what they enjoy and gain personal score naturally while having fun playing the game. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, gracen said:

This isnt the dregs, it is factions and need to realize playing in factions is much different. Zone caps is a totally different issue in which I believe we all agree on and are all attempting to manage. The capping back and forth is a strategy in the context of the rules and the creators of the game. 

I like some of these ideas! Forts should be worth something more. Defending them should be easier and take longer to capture in order for the other factions to be notified and respond. A fast travel to the fort during the beginning of the fort attack but not allowed after you have fast traveled once to the fort with a timer for 30 mins or something.

agreed but once again, it is one strategy that can be implemented. The OP ideas force the other factions and forces into playing a certain way to "win" instead of having options to play to win.

be the tactician you are and figure it out. Decide if you can figure out their tactics and cut them off, often the capture of the outposts is done with 1 group or LESS, why do you need 10 people to defend? if you ahve 10 people wanting to stop the taking of outposts then send 5 one way and the other 5 another... that is a lazy argument

EXACTLY!!! +100, there are times when very few people are on but they want to "help" the faction, outposts is one of those ways...

it is a strategy that allows for a catch up or atleast make it competitive, PvP doesnt necessarily mean ?v? but can mean a fight over the land, over the POIs, and the actual engagements. Lets play the full game not the aspects just one side wants, this isnt LoL(mentioned in the thread).

damn I hate you @Phylor.the.Jester, i agree with everything you say here....

I despise standing in circles for hours with no pvp as as the designed strat. 


This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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39 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I despise standing in circles for hours with no pvp as as the designed strat. 

i dont disagree totally, but to some they may find it enjoyable or "worth" the time invested. I despise harvesting/crafting yet I perform this act at times because it is needed.

The point of it is there are multiple strategies.

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Just now, gracen said:

i dont disagree totally, but to some they may find it enjoyable or "worth" the time invested. I despise harvesting/crafting yet I perform this act at times because it is needed.

The point of it is there are multiple strategies.

Who likes it?  WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?


This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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At the very least this thread brought out in clear daylight the issues with the current point system, and there are small changes that can be made (whatever they are) to better the gameplay experience of the testers, new and old.  That can be agreed upon.  Hopefully ACE takes the time to digest the content of this thread and makes some changes for next CW.

 

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8 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Who likes it?  WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?

I personally don't mind doing the outposts as long as I have 4+ helping to make it quicker. The working together and the fact I changed character helps me learn some of the skills better. I dislike staying idle and harvesting/crafting more than taking the outposts. I even enjoy attempting to take forts with 2-3 people on my white wood-elf stormcaller body and white gear lol, its way more challenging than you think.

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1 minute ago, gracen said:

I personally don't mind doing the outposts as long as I have 4+ helping to make it quicker. The working together and the fact I changed character helps me learn some of the skills better. I dislike staying idle and harvesting/crafting more than taking the outposts. I even enjoy attempting to take forts with 2-3 people on my white wood-elf stormcaller body and white gear lol, its way more challenging than you think.

I'm fine with outposts, just too many of them.  Forts just suck.  The night capping constant back capping with no fights is bleh. 


This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I'm fine with outposts, just too many of them.  Forts just suck.  The night capping constant back capping with no fights is bleh. 

sometimes we try to catch you guys capping after we cap and other times we capture to keep you busy while we go capture other outposts/forts. 

 

edit: all in the tactics of strategy

Edited by gracen

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Posted (edited)

Hello friends,

I also agree that we spend too much time standing in circles instead of fighting. The current system isn't rewarding our style of play. I too "just want to fight". I could sit in an ek with 50 people and run organized 5 man scrims and get more enjoyment out of this game in it's current state.

The problem with towers and camps is that they are being treated as a single entity with it's own small value, they could be attached to the forts and should have to be taken in order to activate the fort vulnerability. People should want to take and defend them. The tug of war over multiple towers in diverse locations would hopefully discourage large group fights and give us a chance to operate as a group, instead of a zerg. Hopefully ace finds and implements solutions that promote pvp at all scales and reward multiple playstyles like scouting, siege specialists, combat gathering (hey it could work) and ambush forces.

Campfires should provide a place for the controlling faction to respawn. That's something worth fighting over and defending.

Forts granting zone wide buffs, additional keep assets to help with defense or an advantage for keep attackers make the forts more valuable and worth fighting over. I also like srathors suggestions of doing stuff on the parcels. I like to think of factions and dregs lite where you can mimick the style of play without having the ability to actually burn someone's house down.

Planetside 2 got a lot of things right with zone control and push pull mechanics, taking objectives should be rewarding. Small objectives contribute to medium objectives which feed into large ones.

Anyway, back to work. The sieges in this campaign have been challenging to say the least but still fun. I salute the balance faction and hope you guys dont burn out standing in circles. See you at the tree.

Chroma, Lord Alpha Pony of UDL

Edited by Chroma
Forgot my fancy new title

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Just now, mandalore said:

I don't get it. 

I'm agreeing with you guys, boring as all hell standing in circles. But I don't think this is a good solution

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Whether or not they go with Damebix's idea I think the vast majority of people do not find circle standing very fun and instead most of us would rather find some sort of PvP battle. The important take away from this thread is that ACE see's the need and the request of the community for some tweaking to the current scoring mechanics so that people that want to find that PvP have a way to do so. Additionally, people who cannot be at Sieges or do not have a full group still have a way to contribute to their faction.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, mandalore said:

How do you feel about circle fall though.  You tend to have good politically neautral post.  Is this standing in circles for hours to back cap the other team and have zero engagement in that time good? 

Dame pushing for 3 day Times is a direct callback for Shadowbane bane timers.  I get that being a bad fit for factions.  

The whole system would work better if the reason you had to cap the outposts was to unlock capping the nearby fort and the reason for capping the forts was to unlock siege on a keep.    Several of us have touted this idea because it then spreads out and encourages pvp over the outposts and alerts the fort/keep owner of what is coming...   territory being lost, etc...  If you want to hold your fort you can make your enemy spread out to cap and hold the feeding outposts for that fort...   the defenders can then start the fight out at the outposts and possible defend the fort before it even becomes vulnerable to capping by retaking outposts.   This does not help off hours/night caps but does give reason for outposts to exist and be important to the score, could even remove direct outpost points but make them a step to capping the forts...   in siege zones this applies all the way up the line giving pre-siege tasks of capping up the line to even get the keep vulnerable.

The last two sieges have been horrible performance wise...   not sure of why we are back to freezes and lock-ups but it is not even a fight.   QueueFall is not great at all either.   

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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