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2 minutes ago, srathor said:

We need gathering gear to not cripple combat stats. Turning gatherers into fat victim, loot pinatas.

I'd settle for not having to look straight down at the ground while harvesting. Being able to actually look around while I'm not moving would be a whole new game.

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6 minutes ago, ZeFx said:

Yeah you've been on the receiving end of some our groups out standing in circles. One of the major reasons I cannot wait for a better system. Either way I hope 5.9 is not far off looking forward to all the changes including armor and war tribes. 

Same, I hope 5.9 is not far off but if its months away and not weeks, My suggestion still stands with a wipe being needed.

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Nobody is disputing the need for a wipe.

Just pointing out it won't change anything and most of us who put in big time to the game it won't effect either way, though it will negatively impact the solo/small guild players who are excited to have finally made their first set of blue armor or something.

The main reason for the kill/death disparity is that most chaos people I run into just stand in bank instead of fight, or literally farm in basic gear and seemingly don't care. I fight in green gear and white vessels, like just try out PvP - you might find you enjoy it.

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6 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

Nobody is disputing the need for a wipe.

Just pointing out it won't change anything and most of us who put in big time to the game it won't effect either way, though it will negatively impact the solo/small guild players who are excited to have finally made their first set of blue armor or something.

The main reason for the kill/death disparity is that most chaos people I run into just stand in bank instead of fight, or literally farm in basic gear and seemingly don't care. I fight in green gear and white vessels, like just try out PvP - you might find you enjoy it.

There is though, hence the 50+ comments, there is a solid debate why there should be and why some think there shouldn't be. The leaderboards topic is off topic and I am not paying attention to it, so is the being able to spirit bank while in combat/dead. The biggest reason I see people say no is population and solo/small guilds being hurt. Do you think the population has stayed stable throughout this campaign or gone down? (not talking just siege times) Do you think people are more likely to stay around in a solo/small guild knowing that these things are fixed in 5.8.5 and no chance of catching up or if items are wiped and now passive training is the only difference... Either way I am good but I would like to hear from a solo/small guild on this.

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The main reason for the kill disparity is Chaos is a large collection of individuals, while balance is a large group of former order players pretending to be balance.

Yall travel in groups and packs. Chaos goes in fits and starts of 1-3 people most of the time. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, PAINDOTCOM said:

Do you think people are more likely to stay around in a solo/small guild knowing that these things are fixed in 5.8.5 and no chance of catching up or if items are wiped and now passive training is the only difference... Either way I am good but I would like to hear from a solo/small guild on this.

I'm not from a small guild, but if Indies & small guilds like the ability to buy gear rather than farming for it and crafting it themselves, then they do not want an item wipe. 

If there's a wipe AT, Srathor's Lawn & any other trading EKs will disappear for another 2 months. Until then, only self sufficient guilds will have gear.

Edited by VaMei

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1 minute ago, VaMei said:

I'm not from a small guild, but if they like the ability to buy gear rather than farming for it and crafting it themselves, then they do not want an item wipe. 

If there's a wipe AT, Srathor's Lawn & any other trading EKs will disappear for another 2 months. Until then, only self sufficient guilds will have gear.

which brings us to a whole different thing but makes srathors point of getting to that point in the game is horrible, unfun, unrewarding, grind.

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1 minute ago, PAINDOTCOM said:

Broken mechanics / feelings yea I see how they are similar :D

I understand you're frustrated but imagine if every time a bug was found they wiped the database, It would be a ghost town up in here. What you're proposing would set a precedent for anyone who is upset to feel entitled to a wipe. Let ACE develop their game and wipe when it is right for them to do so, not at the whims of testers who feel bad about things.

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The major guilds have done a good job, I think, of containing/banning the weapon issue.  I trust the guild leads I'm working with on Chaos, so I think its largely held.

What the minor chaos guilds do is whatever.  They probably need the handicap.

A wipe would be good to remove the need for major guild leads to have to work together and the annoyance of the minor guilds erroding the ban.

 

I doubt they will wipe though with 5.9 hopefully coming within a month. 

Personally, I'd welcome a wipe. Chaos won't have gear to blame and instead will have to look to their lack of organization.

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2 minutes ago, dreaden said:

I understand you're frustrated but imagine if every time a bug was found they wiped the database, It would be a ghost town up in here. What you're proposing would set a precedent for anyone who is upset to feel entitled to a wipe. Let ACE develop their game and wipe when it is right for them to do so, not at the whims of testers who feel bad about things.

Not frustrated at all, it's not just one bug though. Sounds like you sir are frustrated with my suggestion, suggesting me to not partake in the development in a game I like and want to see be better, like everyone else here. 

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A wipe is necessary soon, but we should probably wait until a wipe is warranted.  IE, HP changes to armor, etc.  Is that in 5.8.5?  (haven't been to test yet).  Last time a wipe was in question Jtodd's comments were that they would wipe only when needed by a major change in tech, and that sounds like a reasonable policy to have.  The +20 damage weapons held by some minor guilds aren't going to change the game.  Wiping gear/items doesn't fix anything about gear disparity and with the current passive skill system, new players will ALWAYS be behind unless they build in some sort of catch up mechanic. 

Wipe when we you need to because of technical issues, and my guess is that would be soon based on some upcoming changes

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46 minutes ago, srathor said:

Once the bugs get fixed, we will be able to finally see the gathering game as it is intended. 
We need a full wipe of all gear all skills and everything. 

Why?

We (as the general playerbase) have never gotten a good look at where gathering is from jump. (Hint, it is a horrible, unfun, unrewarding, grind)
We need people to experience it, then gripe, loudly, so that they can fix/tune it better.

First we had the cheaty potions. 
Then the cheaty race passive training
Then the cheaty Iron iron iron + seals gear. / Bene harvest shovels, since there are no gravedigging seals

Once the bugs are gone we can see the gathering game in all of it's unfun glory.

We need more options in the tool combines. 
We need multiple skillcap buckets for group gathering/motherloads
We need a higher base crit chance for all starting early game gathering, either through stats or having weakpoints give crit and crit amount per hit on nodes. 
We need a base bene harvest addition to all gatherers, either through stats, or added to early training nodes, preferably both.
We need gathering gear to not cripple combat stats. Turning gatherers into fat victim, loot pinatas.
We need the action harvesting buffs to hit group members as well as ourselves to break out neat and fun gameplay.

We need gathering discs to actually have some fun in them, not just fill in gaps in the system, that only open other gaps depending on what we select. (If you take lookout to spackle over the bene harvest gap, then your tool durability sucks do to lack of Villian, or plentiful harvest because of a lack of primary disc like Miner.)

Choices do matter. Choices like go play a game that is more fun and does not have the flaming pitfalls of suck, that are  built into the primary driver of the entire gameloop.

Lots of great points in this post.

  • I definitely agree that the harvesting baseline needs to be increased. Crit chance, crit amount, bene harvest chance, benefit harvest duration. Early game gathering is painful. Late game gathering is more tolerable. 
  • Agree that the harvesting/crafting seals SHOULD NOT replace combat stats, they should only add additional stats. They cost additional materials after all. 
  • Action harvesting group buffs is an excellent idea. For the most part the best yields one can get are as a solo harvester as the split doesn't scale well. Adding group buffs to the action harvesting to increase yields is a great idea to make group harvesting more beneficial overall. Each of the 5 action harvesting pips could be a separate type of buff to where a full group of 5 harvesters could each run different buffs that stacked. 

 

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33 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Lots of great points in this post.

  • I definitely agree that the harvesting baseline needs to be increased. Crit chance, crit amount, bene harvest chance, benefit harvest duration. Early game gathering is painful. Late game gathering is more tolerable. 
  • Agree that the harvesting/crafting seals SHOULD NOT replace combat stats, they should only add additional stats. They cost additional materials after all. 
  • Action harvesting group buffs is an excellent idea. For the most part the best yields one can get are as a solo harvester as the split doesn't scale well. Adding group buffs to the action harvesting to increase yields is a great idea to make group harvesting more beneficial overall. Each of the 5 action harvesting pips could be a separate type of buff to where a full group of 5 harvesters could each run different buffs that stacked. 

 

It there is one thing that could be bumped up, it's the impact of action harvesting. 

Right now it's very lackluster. 

I would like to the bonus values for hitting the right pip, weak spots, etc be 3-4X the impact of what they do now, including the length of time on the buffs, so new players really putting in effort and trying to stack buffs by active attentive participation in would see tangible improvements in results. 

Right now, the active harvesting buffs are just are not there motivation wise.

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Posted (edited)

Whenever a player demands a wipe, actual players who crafted gear for this test die a little inside.
and a JTodd gets his wings...   (we know what that looks like)


Wipes come at proper intervals and most testing players want it at those proper and appropriate times...    we went a full year once without a wipe.   we have at least 3 more wipes before launch.   let it go.   This is not the proper time because most players would not rebuild for 5.8.x.      I want to see 1X passive training for Alpha...  lets not skip straight to blue gear again with 3x training speed...  this would give us a real feel for the progression creep.

 

Edited by Frykka

6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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4 minutes ago, Frykka said:

Whenever a player demands a wipe, actual players who crafted gear for this test die a little inside.
and a JTodd gets his wings...   (we know what that looks like)


Wipes come at proper intervals and most testing players want it at those proper and appropriate times...    we went a full year once without a wipe.   we have at least 3 more wipes before launch.   let it go.   This is not the proper time because most players would not rebuild for 5.8.x.      I want to see 1X passive training for Alpha...  lets not skip straight to blue gear again with 3x training speed...  this would give us a real feel for the progression creep.

 

I personally think that 1X training would be a big mistake. I think that original number was a playable placeholder estimation that does not represent how things should really play out. The current pace of about 3 months to end of crafting profession is pretty decent for live in my opinion. 

You push that to 9 months, and I think you lose a huge number of players that don't want to commit to a game for nearly a year before getting into a competitive posistion, which is exactly what the state would be after the first batch made to full training.

 

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13 minutes ago, Frykka said:

Whenever a player demands a wipe, actual players who crafted gear for this test die a little inside.
and a JTodd gets his wings...   (we know what that looks like)


Wipes come at proper intervals and most testing players want it at those proper and appropriate times...    we went a full year once without a wipe.   we have at least 3 more wipes before launch.   let it go.   This is not the proper time because most players would not rebuild for 5.8.x.      I want to see 1X passive training for Alpha...  lets not skip straight to blue gear again with 3x training speed...  this would give us a real feel for the progression creep.

 

Noone was demanding a wipe, just made a suggestion, %'s and decimals are changing with harvesting, among a bunch of other things. Thought it was a good suggestion, some people have disagreed and said why. I believe we have been having a solid discussion on the topic at hand beside a few off topic comments. 1x passive training would prolly hurt the pre-alpha/alpha more than a wipe almost a year before getting to second level of passive training seems a bit much.

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