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1 hour ago, Angelmar said:

Blazzen benchmarked it and it's about 2hrs with ore training and average picks and nothing else (including no bene armor) to get all the ore you need to have a blue set of gear on current map.

There's so much content missing on this game.  We really have only one successful PVP driver and that's sieges.

I've come to question the role passive training has for harvesting. It mostly just makes the NPE miserable until you can get the training unlocked. (~60 day+ at 3x trains) 

That said, once you have training, the "progression curve" of the game can be completed in a single day--easily completed in a weekend.  Even done sub-optimally a character is complete in a week.  So...What is going to keep people playing "in the zones" generating content and world PVP if the progression curve is so short?

Right now it takes more time to gear out a character in SBEmu than it is CF (assuming you have harvest training and access to trained Crafters).  The difference is Shadowbane effectively has factories doing the gear rolling passively.... Hopefully ACE delivers on the long promised factories for CF soon.

cool, go get me 200 high tier auroch leather no exploits, ill even give you 4 months to get it

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2 minutes ago, Staff said:

cool, go get me 200 high tier auroch leather no exploits, ill even give you 4 months to get it

Leather is a completely different story.  The bottle neck around soft leather is a real pain.   That a map generation issue, just like the ore now is super easy to come by because of the map generation changes. 

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1 hour ago, srathor said:

Take a step back from the tryhard winning groupthink and examine the health of the god damned game. 

Just because people have a different opinion from yours doesn't mean they aren't thinking about the health of the game. The rarity of high-end gear and the amount of work it should take to get is something that people can reasonably disagree on.

Personally, I favor epic and legendary stuff being rare. I don't agree with anyone who thinks that stuff should be easy come, easy go.

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Though I agree that there is a big issue with PvP balance between new players' and veteran players' equipment; I don't think an item wipe would necessarily fix that. It seems like a cop out to the problem and only postpones having to deal with the core issue that players with certain builds and relationships have access to way more loot/materials than others and they use that to their advantage (I'd do the same in their place). 

My idea to try and balance this would be to have biomes within the larger campaign with higher tier materials, better drop rates, or higher rank mobs, but the degradation on equipment in this area would be higher than others and regen rates would be slower. Higher risk and higher reward essentially. This creates a watering hole where high ranking players weather harder conditions and take more damage for better loot, so it's no longer about having enough free time to mine for legendary ore, but about having enough equipment and skill to survive and get out. In this area you would also not be able to access your EK, so if you die you lose everything you had. Dying will also be a lot easier in that there would be fewer outpost/keeps in this area for protection. This would also mean that owning the few outposts/keeps would seriously matter. 

While this wouldn't directly effect how new player harvest, it does mean high ranking players are less likely to stumble on them and gank them because it's less likely they have anything worth taking. Obviously some players will try to min/max all their items to break the game and others will hunt new players just to grief, but it should be difficult for players to get to the point where they can do that and/or sustain that level of superiority. 

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9 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

That is a problem with the skill tree then. If you make the leveling too fast you make the actual progression meaningless.

Is there any meaning to active vessel leveling?

9 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

We will have the skill tome catch-up mechanic and probably some newbies-only CWs.

Hopefully there are enough players to have tiered CWs but who knows.

Still don't understand how the proposed Tome system would benefit new players. Seems much more likely to benefit those that have been around and or are part of organized guilds working together.

9 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

The key is making the whole 9 months of leveling interesting and not just go 'nobody cares about that part and wants to be master as soon as possible',

That way of thinking hurts players themselves. Enjoy the ride. Take joy in seeing your progress. Don't skip steps.

There isn't any content though. Without the typical themepark fluff, there aren't any roses to stop and smell.

Tiered CWs and such would just be a means to an end. The goal is still to reach the "end game" which could be whatever provides the most competition and rewards.

There isn't any real progression to see. Vessel leveling is a joke. Passive leveling at real speed will be tiny incremental stat boosts. Don't see people logging in going "OMG I got 0.1% more X," and making much use of it. It's about the end and accumulation of everything. Having multiple nodes do the exact same thing within a tree doesn't help either.

It's just stack stats to fight off the RNG gods or become ever more powerful in what is supposed to be a "super shallow power curve" game.

The competitive nature that this game seems to bring out isn't going to slow people down. People are going to do whatever it takes (path of least resistance) to reach what they perceive to be the end.

9 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Of course the 9 months is subject to change after we test it, but I am with frykka. I would like at least, at least, 1 month between gear upgrades. Specially since players don't go back after upgrading (sans special exceptions), once you move to blue you are never going back to white so enjoy the noob phase while it lasts.

This to me is an issue with the design as a whole. Way too vertical like most MMOs.

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4 hours ago, HeadDropCanNon said:

Higher risk and higher reward essentially.

Not sure ACE is including this ingredient.

So far seems to be play more, bring more, know more, profit.

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16 hours ago, Navystylz said:

I don't think this is the issue people are trying to make it out to be. Just completely blue geared 4 people, the farming and crafting work is burning me out. And now people want another wipe just cuz? 

 

I'm sorry, but that's the point, and where the problem lies.

You shouldn't feels like you're burning out after making 4 sets of blue equipment. For a skilled harvester&crafter, blue gear should be the norm. If people are burning out from making a few blue gear after 6 months of skill time (bear in mind current skilling speed is x3, ergo 6 months), then it shows the game's economy is out of wack.

Sure, I understand your pain, but the idea behind the item wipe is to reset the gear/material advantage some people obtained through uses of unintended mechanics.

Some are saying "let me enjoy my blue a bit longer", I also understand, sadly while you enjoy your blue, these bugs have made purple the norm (at least for weapons), so your blue is still a rank lower than your opponents. Would you rather farm an insane amount of time to get your purples and remain competitive, or would you prefer to wipe, bring back the norm to blue at best, and be just as efficient as you currently are with a new set of green?

My main argument in favor of wiping the items is to collect more data about the real state of the economy as it was intended without exploits. We "could" wait until next patch or whatever... but this is a pre-alpha game, in active development. It would be beneficial for the game to wipe sooner rather than later to collect ueful data about actual balance.
I know this is painful from a player's point of view because you just want to play your game. And I understand, sadly this is a pre-alpha, and regular wipes should be expected as soon as a major bug screws the economy and the current data.

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1 hour ago, Gaulwa said:

Some are saying "let me enjoy my blue a bit longer", I also understand, sadly while you enjoy your blue, these bugs have made purple the norm (at least for weapons), so your blue is still a rank lower than your opponents. Would you rather farm an insane amount of time to get your purples and remain competitive, or would you prefer to wipe, bring back the norm to blue at best, and be just as efficient as you currently are with a new set of green?

 

Blue is the norm for HoA..... what guilds have purple as the norm?  I seriously want to know.

I think long term with the current way things drop, blue will become the norm for everyone unless map generation makes it difficult again like last map, which is where were at. That's where it is at right now. It should not be hard to get the materials and have the stats to make very good blue gear now(except leather which is screwed every which way)

Do I think changes would make it a good time for a wipe? Yes, but once again, with 5.9 on the horizon I would rather wait to do it then unless it is way off. Bene should be auto fixed with patch(I think) and anyone who used boards will have them decay out. AFAIK most of the larger guilds have already agreed not to use it.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Ussiah said:

Blue is the norm for HoA..... what guilds have purple as the norm?  I seriously want to know.

 

There was a message last week from someone mentioning that all their PvP'ers had purple weapons, and mostly blue armors with some purples.

Since it only takes about 45 ore to make a one-hand weapon, and knowing that only the main hand weapon determine the damages, it isn't improbable for a Guild to have a purple weapon for each member, especially with current bene harvest buff. It would take less than a hour, maybe even half that time per weapon.

Edited by Gaulwa

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Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2019 at 2:17 AM, PAINDOTCOM said:

I know alot of people will disagree with me here but

I suggest a item wipe, my reasoning is due to people taking advantage of the 100% uptime of bene harvest, infinite trees on EK's for mass farming of dust/embers, bugged weapon crafting and a few other things that gave them an advantage over people who didn't know about these things or newer players. I know the fixes for these things are coming with the next patch but that wont change the fact that people are running around with godly rolled purple/gold gear that knew these things were not working as intended and exploited it, I personally don't care if it happens this is just a suggestion. I also am not accusing anyone in particular, am just stating the facts for people who still don't know, to understand why they may be getting pooped on when they think they have decent gear :D 

I will say this i farmed enough mats for legendary armor and weapons all the legit way same with chaos embers, havant crafted them yet cause waiting for Blacksmither to unlock the blacksmithing mastery which he not too far off now, Still need to work on more chaos embers but havant been abusing any bugs and exploits. everything ive farmed has been legit ways of doing so and it has teken quite alot of time i must say :P
Didnt use beneficial armor bonuses cause i used crit amount armor cause that seem to provide more legendary drops atleast for me, All my chaos embers have come from buying them or getting them tipped to me for jewelery crafting.

I will say this 10 chaos embers will get you a rather nice jewellery piece 110 AP roughtly and thats only doing the large roll at the end. you will get 125AP give or take 1-3 AP if u rerolled that phase aswell but often enough just the last reroll will cap you.

Also for reference atleast for me a no rolled purple is better than a full rerolled blue. a non rolled legendary is better than a rerolled purple Well ull wanna small reroll then atleast. this is true like 90% of the time

 

Edited by veeshan

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1 minute ago, Gaulwa said:

There was a message last week from someone mentioning that all their PvP'ers had purple weapons, and mostly blue armors with some purples.

Since it only takes about 45 ore to make a one-hand weapon, and knowing that only the main hand weapon determine the damages, it isn't improbable for a Guild to have a purple weapon for each member, especially with current bene harvest buff. It would take less than a hour, maybe even half that time per weapon.

Once again, what guild? I seriously want to know because it isn't any of the major ones I know. I know W doesn't have all purple weapons, I know HoA doesn't. I doubt UDL does, is it a euro one? A small guild?

Misinformation is everywhere.

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1 hour ago, Gaulwa said:

You shouldn't feels like you're burning out after making 4 sets of blue equipment. For a skilled harvester&crafter, blue gear should be the norm. If people are burning out from making a few blue gear after 6 months of skill time (bear in mind current skilling speed is x3, ergo 6 months), then it shows the game's economy is out of wack.

From the few weeks I've spent in the Chaos faction it seems to me that kind of burn out is more so the result of people not really participating in the economy, at least on the scale or in the way ACE has designed it. The more experienced and larger guilds have an internal gathering and crafting system that brings in and consumes resources and poops out gear, where the gatherers are (mostly) not also the crafters. The smaller guilds don't have that kind of system (for multiple reasons) but instead of employing their faction members to make up the difference some of them burn themselves out trying too hard to do too much; and those who don't just go without.

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6 minutes ago, moneda said:

From the few weeks I've spent in the Chaos faction it seems to me that kind of burn out is more so the result of people not really participating in the economy, at least on the scale or in the way ACE has designed it. The more experienced and larger guilds have an internal gathering and crafting system that brings in and consumes resources and poops out gear, where the gatherers are (mostly) not also the crafters. The smaller guilds don't have that kind of system (for multiple reasons) but instead of employing their faction members to make up the difference some of them burn themselves out trying too hard to do too much; and those who don't just go without.

This is probably most accurate. If you are doing everything, it is impossible or at least feels impossible.

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4 hours ago, Ussiah said:

Once again, what guild? I seriously want to know because it isn't any of the major ones I know. I know W doesn't have all purple weapons, I know HoA doesn't. I doubt UDL does, is it a euro one? A small guild?

Misinformation is everywhere.

 It was a message on the forum. They guy could have been exagerating.

Although a quick seach brough these post for example:

 

It was a HoA member who said a week ago:

"We are starting to reach a point where we are gearing more towards having more pieces of gear purple then blue (some legendaries as well)."

Mandalore also from HoA mentioned something similar:

 

2 weeks ago: "most weapons are purple" "it's a huge advantage".

 

Maybe they both lied, maybe they both exagerated... but if most of them had purple weapons 2 weeks ago, surely all the active fighters in HoA should have one by now.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Gaulwa said:

 It was a message on the forum. They guy could have been exagerating.

Although a quick seach brough these post for example:

 

It was a HoA member who said a week ago:

"We are starting to reach a point where we are gearing more towards having more pieces of gear purple then blue (some legendaries as well)."

Mandalore also from HoA mentioned something similar:

 

2 weeks ago: "most weapons are purple" "it's a huge advantage".

 

Maybe they both lied, maybe they both exagerated... but if most of them had purple weapons 2 weeks ago, surely all the active fighters in HoA should have one by now.

My statement stands.  We have blue as our baseline gear and people who get the required embers get purples.  There are plenty of purple weapons out there.  Most of our vessels are also blue, again bc embers cap how rerolls work for it. 

Don't forget that roughly 40% of force is healers and healers use green weapons bc there's real no benefit from weapons for healers besides support power and we are all capped anyways. 

 

That was two weeks ago.  If you can't compete with blues armors, blue vessels, blue JC and some purple weapons then that's shameful.  It takes 2 hours of farming to get enough ore for a blue set of armor and weapons.  Last server they starved people on iron nodes but they didn't this time so there is no excuse for not having full blues. 

Edited by mandalore

This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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Posted (edited)

Gearing towards means farming embers for, most people don't  put in the time to farm the embers so they dont have purple. Parfax post is all about how we can't get embers to make purple gear better than blue.

I literally make all the gear so I can tell you the amount of people with purple weapons is 50% or less, and for most save a few exceptions that is the only purple gear they have.

Purple is not the "norm" and if your argument is that because less than 50% of our weapons are purple is why you cant compete, then I am not sure this game will ever be competitive for you.

 

People get purples because they put in TONS of time doing mindnumbing farming. So yes, if you want it you have to do the same. Sorry if its not "fair" that they get slightly better weapons because they put in more time.

Edited by Ussiah

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me and my guild put in a lot of work for just 5 purple weapons, 3 2h 2 1h, with one being a staff cause 4k durability is cool, we worked our butts off getting the embers for them and everything else, no wipe until 5.9 unless its several months away

 

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1 hour ago, Staff said:

me and my guild put in a lot of work for just 5 purple weapons, 3 2h 2 1h, with one being a staff cause 4k durability is cool, we worked our butts off getting the embers for them and everything else, no wipe until 5.9 unless its several months away

 

Who is using the staff just wondering?  If its a healer then you wasted a lot of time and I'm sad. 


This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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1 hour ago, mandalore said:

Who is using the staff just wondering?  If its a healer then you wasted a lot of time and I'm sad. 

It was a healer, we didnt know until after we gathered it all, clerics and templars still need good weps though right?

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