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Staff

Game not what it should be

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Posted (edited)

Crowfall was promised as a play to crush throne war simulator, and while its certainly play to crush (with pure numbers and extreme gear difference) and it is a simulator (circle simulator) it needs to be much better on a lot of fronts. Farming in this game sucks, you need a ton of mats, strong tools, a lot of time, and complete dependence on others for higher tier mats from other professions unless youve bought several accounts, and even then unless you have several farmer crafters behind you you'll still be behind, farming dust is a pain, farming embers is even more of a pain, and little things like skinning getting reduced drops at night, and lack of much needed mob types, all add up to an extremely unpleasurable experience for the entirety of the gearing session. Even after getting all the mats, rounding up various crafters to craft it, you will still have a chance to have it all wasted with a chance to fail on assembly regardless of skill, for my most recent set of gear 2 of my gauntlets were flawed from blue to green with a 98% to not fail. Even after working overtime to farm mats, beating your way through rng crafting, you can finally pvp, oh wait no you cant, not alone at least, youve now gotta get a couple of geared friends to stand a chance, congrats! back to farming for you buddy boy. Ok now that you are geared, your friends are geared, and you got your discs set up you can go finally pvp. Or not.... you can now stand in circles for several hours. After awhile of circle standing you finally meet someone, oh wait oh god he isnt alone, he has 12 other dudes with him, you and your 4 buddies never stood a chance, you cant run because your mount moves about as slow as your thought process before your morning coffee, you cant fight them because there's just too many, you cant focus them because this combat system is complete trash you accidentally hit the templar once and he knocked down your entire team, and with a movement and combat system like this you cant kite them and spread them out without malekai himself descending from the heavens and personally blinding half of them. Ok so you died now you get to respawn super far away because you didnt own a fort and now have to fly for 5 minutes or break your armor, then you get to sit around for 3 minutes on shroud and hope no one comes by. Now that you've ressed you can go look for an even fight, your teammates logged for the night because the crow flying made them die inside, after finding 1 person you get into a fight with them, turns out the gear you crafted wasnt enough, youre fighting a champion, you get him down to 1% health 40 times but he just heals right back up and kills you because you didnt decide to run plague lord that day. Ok after respawning, flying, and waiting, you meet someone else of the same class, another myrmidon! finally a fair fight, or so you thought, you manage your crashes perfectly and even manage to break his, but unlike you his gear is a tier higher, he has more health because health is related to armor for some ungodly reason, and his 2 axes named noob slayer and carried by my guild do more damage because he exploited with wooden boards, and now youre dead again, back to flying, back to waiting, back to hating the cycle. 

Before this game is ready it needs a lot of changes, allow me to list a few below

  1. REDUCE THE PVE GRIND FOR THIS PRIMARILY PVP GAME, increase drop rates on leather, wood, and higher colored items, along with dust and embers.
  2. MAKE THE GAME ACTUALLY SKILLFUL WITH BUILDS AND OVERALL COMBAT, introduce armor and weapon sets like eso's, it allows for a lot of customization and unique builds allowing your min max to be more then just a good hunger shard (which needs some serious rng buffs)
  3. REPLACE THE KEEPS AND FORTS WITH SOMETHING BETTER, AND MORE DEFENDABLE, keep sieges are only passably acceptable atm because its the only time you will be 100% assured you wont have to just circle stand, the keeps are small, and undefendable with its layout allowing for holes everywhere. forts themselves are too easily capped, went with my druid and hacked my way into several forts earlier, chopping through the stone foundation and thick wooden walls, we didnt cap it super quick because theres just 2 of us, but more would have capped that fort with 0 warning in under 3 minutes, make forts stronger, harder to take, and have more warning.
  4. THE NERF SLEDGEHAMMER, for the love of the all father, stop nerfing classes with just the sledge hammer of doom, tweak the classes dont destroy them like fessor, when the pitfighter nerf comes please dont make it worthless

TLDR: farming sucks, crafting sucks, pvp sucks, combat and movement system sucks, still better then wizard101

Edited by Staff

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Posted (edited)

1.Harvesting and crafting is in a good posiiton i think, it is complex but not to hard or easy and general pacing for getting gear is good.( Crafting is designed in the way that you cant do everything as a soloplayer and that is a good thing for a good social mmorpg experience i think).

2. the idea of action combat is good but the current state is very bad, PvP is not fun for me because of lags and microteleportation of enemyplayers, so a skillfull behavoir in a fight is barely possible because of inaccuracy of the whole system atm

3. the idea of keeps and forts is good, but the current implementation isnt good

 

The game is still in pre-alpha so i think a lot will change and improve until launch. ( I am not interested in playtesting an pre-alpha build over and over again, so i will wait til release for a final judgement and only login to the game for new milestones til than)

Edited by Kreigon

One Ring to Rule them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to bring them all an in the darkness and bind them.

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Yep. Didn't even know there was a wooden board exploit. So legit players will suffer. They might wipe with 5.8.5 and I will just take a break until the game hit alpha, and pulls its head out its ass and try and actually give balanced fights without relying on very specific disciplines to compete.

Really don't like current disciplines or the lack of slots of passives. I think they need rebalance that at the very LEAST you get access to ALL the passives tied into your already hard capped discipline slots. Class gives 1, maybe 2 and rest comes from disciplines but probably have to use 2 minors just to have workable power and passive slots, leaving you with 1 and your majors.

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4 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

Really don't like current disciplines or the lack of slots of passives.

I'm with you there. Demon's Pact is almost required, and so is a jewelry minor; once your out of passive slots, most minors have nothing to offer.

I'm finding a lot of the majors pretty lackluster at this point too. Would happily trade that second major to get Axe Mastery back. Once Majors are a permanent affix, most of those situational hard counter discs are going to be junk.

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Crowfall is actually a Throne War MMO not a simulator.  I agree that there is certainly plenty of room for improvement but some of your fundamental complaints seem to be about core MMO systems that are likely to always be part of Crowfall. 

1.  Building your character and gear takes time and is the primary focus for all MMOs,  It the single largest thing MMOs have to actually encourage players to play in the world.   The amount of time may be adjusted but overall this is the single biggest core feature of MMOs.  

2.  Action combat during pre alpha can be rough in large groups, I agree it can be frustrating when key abilities are lagged or the game play drags down to a slide show.   Hopefully the new controller work in 6.0 will help.

3.  Circle standing does need to be reworked.  In it's current form it adds almost nothing to game play.

4.  Uneven numbers of combatants in open world PvP is part of every PvP MMO outside of battlegrounds. 

5.  Movement speed is slower than last campaign but running away is possible, it just isn't guaranteed.  If running away always worked then the game would be nothing but chasing people until one side gets bored and gives up or hit a runegate to the safe city/temple.

6.  Crowfall death and respawn is pretty standard for PvP MMOs.  It prevents defeated players from jumping right back into the War and gives you a delay and slight risk if want to come back as quick as possible  (crow, respawn and wait out death shroud).

7.  1 v 1 combat will come down to a bunch of things; player skill, understanding your class and of course gear.   So if each players has similar skills then gear will be the deciding factor, again there are PvP games designed to eliminate gear differences but those are not MMOs.   The current bug with boards is not part of the crafting game design and will certainly be fixed during pre-alpha.


I agree with most of your recommendation:

 PvE is one of the few game loops we have that encourages players to be in the world outside of sieges and again it is a core element of MMOs even PvP MMOs.   I do agree that resource available need to be looked at because there are some like leather that seems neglected but we don't need a drastic nerfing of PvE grind.   The PvE grind drops off once you get your character built and with campaign imports you won't be constantly regrinding your vessel.

Adding even more customization to character builds is good though it may be difficult to balance and encourage ongoing nerfs.

Forts and Outposts do need a rework to be something that encourages PvP and hopefully something that can actually be more impactful to the overall War,  buffs, spawn points, resource caravans, etc...

Nerfs are annoying but the game is only in pre alpha so there will be TONS of nerfs coming and lots of rerolling characters.  Sadly that is part of the alpha testing reality atm.


I don't want to be dismissive but if everything you complained about was removed Crowfall would be more like a mutated Battle Royale, MOBA or FPS than a Throne WAR MMO.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, VaMei said:

I'm with you there. Demon's Pact is almost required, and so is a jewelry minor; once your out of passive slots, most minors have nothing to offer.

I'm finding a lot of the majors pretty lackluster at this point too. Would happily trade that second major to get Axe Mastery back. Once Majors are a permanent affix, most of those situational hard counter discs are going to be junk.

I dream of were disciplines that once slotted give you the power to hit your transform, which swaps your skin and changes your tray to tray specific to that were discipline. Giving you a new LMB, a version of dodge tailored to that were, with 3-4 abilities granted on the bar that is editable when you press K, but can only be access by virtue of shifting forms. Inheriting your passives from your main bar, and giving you a granted passive in the way that racial passive is added to the bar.

Maybe some cool play like taking damage extends the duration of werebear by X, can only occur every Y seconds.

Edited by Navystylz

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5 minutes ago, rutaq said:

6.  Crowfall death and respawn is pretty standard for PvP MMOs.  It prevents defeated players from jumping right back into the War and gives you a delay and slight risk if want to come back as quick as possible  (crow, respawn and wait out death shroud).

I feel like if they could make it so that the timer on death shroud started the moment you spawned as the crow, would make things much better. That way if you have some ridiculous 5 min run back to your body, you could revive and not be shrouded. But if you have a quick run, you could respawn but have to wait out the shroud timer.

Having both when the body run is excessive is extremely off-putting. Just feels bad.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Staff said:

 

  1. MAKE THE GAME ACTUALLY SKILLFUL WITH BUILDS AND OVERALL COMBAT, introduce armor and weapon sets like eso's, it allows for a lot of customization and unique builds allowing your min max to be more then just a good hunger shard (which needs some serious rng buffs)
  2. REPLACE THE KEEPS AND FORTS WITH SOMETHING BETTER, AND MORE DEFENDABLE, keep sieges are only passably acceptable atm because its the only time you will be 100% assured you wont have to just circle stand, the keeps are small, and undefendable with its layout allowing for holes everywhere. forts themselves are too easily capped, went with my druid and hacked my way into several forts earlier, chopping through the stone foundation and thick wooden walls, we didnt cap it super quick because theres just 2 of us, but more would have capped that fort with 0 warning in under 3 minutes, make forts stronger, harder to take, and have more warning.

Agreed. Replace keeps with castles. Also flying back to your body is weird. You should spawn as a crow on your body at fly to a nearby fort to rez. Tow truck system seems unnecessarily punishing. 

Edited by Marth

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6 hours ago, rutaq said:

Crowfall is actually a Throne War MMO not a simulator.  I agree that there is certainly plenty of room for improvement but some of your fundamental complaints seem to be about core MMO systems that are likely to always be part of Crowfall. 

1.  Building your character and gear takes time and is the primary focus for all MMOs,  It the single largest thing MMOs have to actually encourage players to play in the world.   The amount of time may be adjusted but overall this is the single biggest core feature of MMOs.  

2.  Action combat during pre alpha can be rough in large groups, I agree it can be frustrating when key abilities are lagged or the game play drags down to a slide show.   Hopefully the new controller work in 6.0 will help.

3.  Circle standing does need to be reworked.  In it's current form it adds almost nothing to game play.

4.  Uneven numbers of combatants in open world PvP is part of every PvP MMO outside of battlegrounds. 

5.  Movement speed is slower than last campaign but running away is possible, it just isn't guaranteed.  If running away always worked then the game would be nothing but chasing people until one side gets bored and gives up or hit a runegate to the safe city/temple.

6.  Crowfall death and respawn is pretty standard for PvP MMOs.  It prevents defeated players from jumping right back into the War and gives you a delay and slight risk if want to come back as quick as possible  (crow, respawn and wait out death shroud).

7.  1 v 1 combat will come down to a bunch of things; player skill, understanding your class and of course gear.   So if each players has similar skills then gear will be the deciding factor, again there are PvP games designed to eliminate gear differences but those are not MMOs.   The current bug with boards is not part of the crafting game design and will certainly be fixed during pre-alpha.


I agree with most of your recommendation:

 PvE is one of the few game loops we have that encourages players to be in the world outside of sieges and again it is a core element of MMOs even PvP MMOs.   I do agree that resource available need to be looked at because there are some like leather that seems neglected but we don't need a drastic nerfing of PvE grind.   The PvE grind drops off once you get your character built and with campaign imports you won't be constantly regrinding your vessel.

Adding even more customization to character builds is good though it may be difficult to balance and encourage ongoing nerfs.

Forts and Outposts do need a rework to be something that encourages PvP and hopefully something that can actually be more impactful to the overall War,  buffs, spawn points, resource caravans, etc...

Nerfs are annoying but the game is only in pre alpha so there will be TONS of nerfs coming and lots of rerolling characters.  Sadly that is part of the alpha testing reality atm.


I don't want to be dismissive but if everything you complained about was removed Crowfall would be more like a mutated Battle Royale, MOBA or FPS than a Throne WAR MMO.

4: Its something that cant be changed, there will always be more numbers, my problem with how it is here is there is a lack of strong aoe, its hard to target 1 person with how the combat system is and of course lag, some of this will addressed i know but other stuff wont be

5: Slower movement speed like this will really suck when we get larger worlds, and this significantly slower combat speed really sucks

6:  i like navys way of fixing this

7: my biggest problem with gear deciding things is the pve grind and rng crafting, without different ways to build someone with 1% more pen is objectively better, to fix this i just want gear sets that do different things so everyone isnt a carbon copy

Now to address the pve loop, i want things like leather and wood to be fixed and higher drop rates for better colors, however to extend this pve loop the devs can implement set seals that drop from enemies, say you have a 5% for a seal of the berserker to drop from a cat and you use that instead of a crafting or harvesting seal on your armor to get bonus stats for whatever it gives and the more seals from 1 set the more bonuses you get, we can even add this to jewelry to make it more intensive 


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I feel like some of these complaints kinda boil down to being upset you can't do everything yourself and then getting outnumbered when you fight. 

I personally think dependence on other players is important for making a game and community feel alive. And getting outnumbered by another force is a combination of small worlds, big guilds being forced to play with more casual or smaller groups, and lack of population. Complaining about guild organization in a guild-based game is pretty random to me. But its almost like in the future we will have guild v guild and dregs worlds where most of the highly organized guilds will be playing. 

I imagine a lot of these problems will be fixed with better objectives in a bigger world in different world bands. There are MANY MANY builds that you can make, I think customization is pretty insane atm but gear is too strong so it's overshadowed. And with training plus spring harvest bonus I can't really imagine it's hard to come about a large quantity of mats. 

That said...some balance changes regarding crafting, gear, and combat abilities are sorely needed imo. 

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Posted (edited)

"Crowfall is actually a Throne War MMO not a simulator."

 

Just remember, for a throne war to happen people must care about the throne.  There's very little of this with the current gameplay mechanics.

 

There's also a distinct difference in the popularity between Game of Thrones and Dirty Jobs.  If the game is to succeed it needs to be Game of Thrones, not Dirty Jobs with Armored Hamsters.

Edited by Dern

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I’d watch an episode of dirty jobs and armored hamsters...


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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@Staff I 100% agree with your assessment.  After playing every other game and then coming to CF, I feel there is a lot missing.  ESO had a nice armor progression, but after you got your gear, you got to PvP for a while before switching to the "newest" set.

Last night at the siege, each faction had their zones capped with 65+ to defend.  That means that the 2 other factions could potentially get 35 attackers.  What did this mean? It meant that there was going to be no PvP siege for the night.  Order is all but non existent for the past 2-3 campaigns.......why? Because standing in circles sucks, being 10:1 odds sucks.

For a PvP focused game, there is little to no PvP.  Let me list the types of PvP below:

  1. Ganking Farmers - Probably the most common.  Good for ganker, bad for farmer (farmer has everything to lose, ganker has pride)
  2. Siege Window - 1hr siege windows nightly that literally last less than 20 minutes.  Last night, Balance was able to capture the Keep in less than 2 minutes from the beginning of the siege window.
  3. Maybe some random small scale during traveling.

That's IT!!!!  Where is all the Hunger Dome combat/fun?  Class

On 3/11/2019 at 11:28 AM, rutaq said:

7.  1 v 1 combat will come down to a bunch of things; player skill, understanding your class and of course gear.   So if each players has similar skills then gear will be the deciding factor, again there are PvP games designed to eliminate gear differences but those are not MMOs.   The current bug with boards is not part of the crafting game design and will certainly be fixed during pre-alpha.

I totally disagree, but hopefully with 6.0 things get more balanced.  

Disciplines take away the uniqueness of classes instead of enhancing them.  Shadowbane had good disciplines, but non were as overpowering as these in the current Crowfall.  Some disks can totally change a class.


"If your not failing sometimes, you aren't growing.  Without growth, there can never be greatness."

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