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Rikutatis

Seasoned characters vs New Players (FAQ discussion)

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20 minutes ago, mandalore said:

There should be more than one stack buster though.  If there’s only one that one becomes required.  There’s already enough meta problems with 3/30 available specs being healers and every group needing at least one and pref 2. 

Definitely need more stack busters. I'm still not a fan of the AoE cap limit. If the cap was removed or at least raised from 5 to 10 that would help things. Right now the only real stack busters are druid bombs, siege engines and maybe the alpha warrior neck breaker. 

One thing ACE could look at is all of the "CC" related promotions could be turned into more of an CC / AoE damage promotion class. Then for the most part you'd have a choice of single target burst damage, tank/healing, or a CC/AoE damage promotion class. A lot of the CC promotion classes are pretty bad so giving them an AoE role may make them more interesting/viable. 

There's also some powers that need to be boosted up a bit. 

  • Blazing Light was OP for a hot minute but got way over nerfed. Needs some love. 
  • Aura Emitter dmg is too low and should be boosted. 
  • The Ranger's AoE arrow barrage damage is too low and should be boosted. 
  • Myrmidon Raging Bull could do more damage than it does considering it costs twice the amount of soul power that champion neck breaker does. Maybe a talent in Titan to raise the damage and/or a talent in Conqueror to lower the soul power cost. 
  • I assume frostweaver will get some kind of useful AoE abilities.
  • Honestly not sure how good the Ranger traps are but I feel like there should be a powerful AoE damage trap. Maybe post armor changes if leather classes are viable then we will see more Brigand's.  

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It would also be nice if there weren't disciplines which single handedly nullified entire classes. I've stopped playing my confessor, which is the class I normally find most fun, because a couple sieges ago more than half the people I targeted were invulnerable, and many others were actually being healed by my attacks.


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26 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Definitely need more stack busters. I'm still not a fan of the AoE cap limit. If the cap was removed or at least raised from 5 to 10 that would help things. Right now the only real stack busters are druid bombs, siege engines and maybe the alpha warrior neck breaker. 

One thing ACE could look at is all of the "CC" related promotions could be turned into more of an CC / AoE damage promotion class. Then for the most part you'd have a choice of single target burst damage, tank/healing, or a CC/AoE damage promotion class. A lot of the CC promotion classes are pretty bad so giving them an AoE role may make them more interesting/viable. 

There's also some powers that need to be boosted up a bit. 

  • Blazing Light was OP for a hot minute but got way over nerfed. Needs some love. 
  • Aura Emitter dmg is too low and should be boosted. 
  • The Ranger's AoE arrow barrage damage is too low and should be boosted. 
  • Myrmidon Raging Bull could do more damage than it does considering it costs twice the amount of soul power that champion neck breaker does. Maybe a talent in Titan to raise the damage and/or a talent in Conqueror to lower the soul power cost. 
  • I assume frostweaver will get some kind of useful AoE abilities.
  • Honestly not sure how good the Ranger traps are but I feel like there should be a powerful AoE damage trap. Maybe post armor changes if leather classes are viable then we will see more Brigand's.  

Let’s not forget the dumpster fire that is radical and arbiter cleric.  One is supposed to be damage but can’t sustain its mana long enough to do dmg (it’s being reported to me that the mana issue is working on test but I haven’t tested myself) and the other is a hybrid healer/damage/CC that doesn’t do any of them well enough to warrant bringing it in a serious fight.  Not to mention that all of the training for 1h hammers is crushing damage but clerics were converted into fire damage (with all three specs of fessor and all three specs of Templar for a total of 9 specs poorly made socks on with Elementalist).  

If Radical actually worked I bet it would be an amazing mid range, aoe, sustained damage spec but it doesn’t so we can’t test it but it doesn’t work.  It’s training doesn’t match its damage, it can’t sustain its mana Bc it’s auto attacks consume too much mana for illuminate to maintain and it’s too easy to resist its damage type. 

@thomasblair


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

Oh god, healing is a topic that deserves its own thread and discussion lol. 

Healing and AoE as well. Healing is kind of in between atm. It's not fully firehose in the same sense you have in other MMOs (one healer keeping an entire raid alive by spamming his AoE heals), but at the same time it's still strong enough that you'd actually want to stack 2 healers in a group of 5 if you can. So the lack of any meaningful AoE damage outside of ballistas (rip aurora emitter, you're missed) and the lack of dedicated healer classes (there's like 2 and a half out of god knows how many promotion classes), plus a bunch of beneficial AoE ground effects, and we have this melee ball meta of classes that can self sustain without needing too much healing and can still dish out almost as much damage (if not as much) as a squishy dps class. It's all champs and myrms out there, with a couple healers and a knight for chain pulls. 🤣

Honestly this would be the time for the Archdruid to shine. Increase the explosion radius of his orb bombs from 4.5m to 6 or 7m, and give him aurora emitter back, with a buff to its damage. I'd play that 😍

Also another reason why I'd really like the Dregs to have that same 5-man group wide friendly fire that Big World used to have. Otherwise it's just going to be the same zergball spamfest from factions, except as alliances instead. 

Having 2 healers in a group is so sought after because every healer class has very limited self healing capacity compared to their potential healing output on other players. Healing is actually weak overall when comparing healing per second vs damage per second between classes, then you add in some of the self-sustain particular classes have...

Stacking 2 healers in a group covers the blaring self-heal deficiency along with adding a lot of healing throughput sustainability due to the group rescource regen abilities/passives. Ideally you'd run as few healers as possible, but never have them solo. 

1 healer groups are actually a very weak group comp if facing organized opposition. This is mitigated in large scale combat due to organization and focus becoming more difficult along with the performance issues this game suffers from.

 

Aside from healing, I'd really love to see the friendly fire outside of group, never got to experience it but this game will largely be about who has the larger blob without friendly fire and current 5 target caps.

Edited by danderions

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Posted (edited)
On 3/14/2019 at 7:30 AM, blazzen said:

The Ranger's AoE arrow barrage damage is too low and should be boosted. 

I feel like this suggestion is part of a larger topic that needs review.

The Ranger's AoE arrow barrage damage is too low and should be boosted. 

There we go.

Seriously though rangers with worthwhile arrow barrage sound great for breaking up stacks. If ranged abilities are boosted in general though, that would help a lot.

Edited by Andius

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An issue is that Barrage is on a very short Cooldown and in the Archer line decreases the Damage of Enemies Hit. 
It's more of a Suppressing Fire ability than a Stack Buster IMO.

Druid Aurora Emitter could certainly use some love.
I enjoyed Blazing Light when it was first introduced and got excited at finally having a "GET OUT OF THAT AOE" prompting Ability in the Field.
Especially one that could be countered or played around.
Similar to Whirlwind back when it was applying 8 ticks of Bleed damage in 3s instead of 24 and really made you want to avoid that spinning Myrm.
A main issue with Blazing Light damage being tuned too high for it was that it had a bug doing an additional 25% damage. It was then nerfed on top of that bug being fixed.
Also at the time it first was seen no players had Armor of any Strength to stand against it.
srathor showed a single Paladin more than negated a single Vindicator with armor/heals.

We could really do with more variance in terms of Damage types IMO, especially for AoEs.
Some Classes are basically limited to only being able to apply a single type of Damage, which can be almost completely countered with a single Discipline.
Almost all AoEs of note are Fire Damage type right now.
Alpha Warrior provides a Neckbreaker which is Crushing but that's about it. 


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1 hour ago, Scorn said:

An issue is that Barrage is on a very short Cooldown and in the Archer line decreases the Damage of Enemies Hit. 
It's more of a Suppressing Fire ability than a Stack Buster IMO.

Druid Aurora Emitter could certainly use some love.
I enjoyed Blazing Light when it was first introduced and got excited at finally having a "GET OUT OF THAT AOE" prompting Ability in the Field.
Especially one that could be countered or played around.
Similar to Whirlwind back when it was applying 8 ticks of Bleed damage in 3s instead of 24 and really made you want to avoid that spinning Myrm.
A main issue with Blazing Light damage being tuned too high for it was that it had a bug doing an additional 25% damage. It was then nerfed on top of that bug being fixed.
Also at the time it first was seen no players had Armor of any Strength to stand against it.
srathor showed a single Paladin more than negated a single Vindicator with armor/heals.

We could really do with more variance in terms of Damage types IMO, especially for AoEs.
Some Classes are basically limited to only being able to apply a single type of Damage, which can be almost completely countered with a single Discipline.
Almost all AoEs of note are Fire Damage type right now.
Alpha Warrior provides a Neckbreaker which is Crushing but that's about it. 

Scarecrow, Elementalist, Mud Man and Militant Mage are too strong in the current state where’re they can be swapped out freely but once people lock into discs it might be less of an issue.  We will see. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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I remember when skills and progression added some .05 tiny piece for each gain and everyone complained that it meant nothing...   this is what a flat power curve looks like, teeny tiny incremental gains...   not 3% or 5 % in 24 hours to a stat or power.    No, we do not have a very flat power gain, we gain power very fast after every wipe...   With a flat power curve the white weapon would top damage at 80 and the purple at 100...   we won't talk about (15-15) wooden board enhanced hilts either.   


 


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On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 7:26 PM, mandalore said:

Why would you assume that?

A B2P or subscription model needs some sort of initial investment in order to play. Whereas a F2P game can be tried on a whim and players can justify quitting immediately due to no investment.

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On 3/13/2019 at 6:55 PM, Rikutatis said:

Oh god, healing is a topic that deserves its own thread and discussion lol. 

Healing and AoE as well. Healing is kind of in between atm. It's not fully firehose in the same sense you have in other MMOs (one healer keeping an entire raid alive by spamming his AoE heals), but at the same time it's still strong enough that you'd actually want to stack 2 healers in a group of 5 if you can. So the lack of any meaningful AoE damage outside of ballistas (rip aurora emitter, you're missed) and the lack of dedicated healer classes (there's like 2 and a half out of god knows how many promotion classes), plus a bunch of beneficial AoE ground effects, and we have this melee ball meta of classes that can self sustain without needing too much healing and can still dish out almost as much damage (if not as much) as a squishy dps class. It's all champs and myrms out there, with a couple healers and a knight for chain pulls. 🤣

Honestly this would be the time for the Archdruid to shine. Increase the explosion radius of his orb bombs from 4.5m to 6 or 7m, and give him aurora emitter back, with a buff to its damage. I'd play that 😍

Also another reason why I'd really like the Dregs to have that same 5-man group wide friendly fire that Big World used to have. Otherwise it's just going to be the same zergball spamfest from factions, except as alliances instead. 

Yeah,  I'm not the hugest fan of healing in this game.  As a healer, I'm not really having fun when I play besides the fact that I know I'm necessary.  I'm not very impactful in the battle outside of the Rescue ability.  There are no combos for me, no decisions for me to make.  A good healer play is hitting a long distance rescue, yay.  Next 45 seconds I'm using my 3-5 other random horrible healing spells that a bot could cast.

I want to be able to make impactful decisions that save my team mates.  I want barriers, damage reduction buffs, life pulls (group only), SOMETHING that I can do and after I do it, my team mates are like "wow, what a play, we'd have been toast if you didn't ________".

This can be done without making us simply a counter to red numbers by giving us more green numbers.

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Yea I really wish there was a friendly version of chain pull to pull out players that are in eminent danger.

I will never understand them pigeon holing 40% of players into healers and then making so few type of healers with the least amount of skill / engaging game play.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Ble said:

Yeah,  I'm not the hugest fan of healing in this game.  As a healer, I'm not really having fun when I play besides the fact that I know I'm necessary. 

barriers, damage reduction buffs, life pulls (group only), SOMETHING that I can do and after I do it, my team mates are like "wow, what a play, we'd have been toast if you didn't ________".

This can be done without making us simply a counter to red numbers by giving us more green numbers.

I've enjoyed playing support/healer in many games but in CF I have no desire.

Understandably the more complex they make it the more resources required, but geez this design could use more, much of which is already there.

Ex: Every 3 LMB heals on a druid or LMB hammers on a cleric get a combo option to buff/debuff (resist debuff/buff, bubble, crit buff, +attack speed, whatever). The particles, animations, powers already exist. Depending on the promo chosen one could get 1 of 3 options, adding more "meaningful choices," or just sprinkle them through out the talent tree and not provide enough points to get everything.

I get they want Disciplines to add more variety, but the base classes almost across the board could use more. I'm not a huge fan of their idea of "combos" but it is not used as much as it could/should be.

Adding more Disciplines over time won't help unless we can slot more and have more bar space, neither of which I see happening. The core class and promos need to be more, especially for one track options like healers.

4 hours ago, Ussiah said:

Yea I really wish there was a friendly version of chain pull to pull out players that are in eminent danger.

I will never understand them pigeon holing 40% of players into healers and then making so few type of healers with the least amount of skill / engaging game play.

Agreed.

On 3/13/2019 at 3:27 PM, Tinnis said:

if we are going to talk FAQs, then i don't think they managed to be 'light on in combat healing' and 'avoid firehose healing' either 😜

Our intent is for the support classes to have key buffs, debuffs and physics related powers at a cost of damage or defensive capability. That isn't to say there won't be healing. There will be options with classes and disciplines to pick up healing powers. We just didn't want to make the traditional firehose style healer that most "trinity" combat systems use.
No idea how they went from this to what is actually available. A healing druid is a heal bot. A healing cleric is a hammer spammer with cast and forget heals. There are some buffs/debuffs but for the most part not good enough.

Like most attacks in Crowfall, healing requires the caster to aim and properly land heals. There are a variety of different methods of healing targeting such as reticle target, projectiles, ground targeting, trap style and reactive.

Again no clue if they believe they are meeting this goal, but I would say they aren't. Most challenging aspect is trying to target something with the few spells that require it in a mass of bodies that collision/physics seem to not deter at all.

Edited by APE

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, APE said:

We just didn't want to make the traditional firehose style healer 

 

Like most attacks in Crowfall, healing requires the caster to aim and properly land heals. There are a variety of different methods of healing targeting such as reticle target, projectiles, ground targeting, trap style and reactive.

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Edited by Scorn

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The biggest divide I see between new players and veteran players is that many veteran players are slaves to the meta classes and group compositions.

The reality of class balance right now is that a mediocre skilled double healer group stacked with meta classes and builds is going to completely decimate a significantly better geared and skilled group.

Combine this with the fact that the people stacking meta groups also generally have more experience in the game and better gear and you've got a real have and have-nots situation.

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Unfortunately until more newer players get access to the higher end gear, they will be a non-factor in the grand scheme of things. People who have been here from the get of this iteration of the game have an advantage. It isn't all knowledge based either.  Some really silly builds exist currently due to the imbalance of gear distribution. Once the gear gaps become non-existent some of these "my build is great/meta" will go away.

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10 hours ago, ZYBAK said:

The biggest divide I see between new players and veteran players is that many veteran players are slaves to the meta classes and group compositions.

The reality of class balance right now is that a mediocre skilled double healer group stacked with meta classes and builds is going to completely decimate a significantly better geared and skilled group.

Combine this with the fact that the people stacking meta groups also generally have more experience in the game and better gear and you've got a real have and have-nots situation.

Guilds that can follow a strategy, vision or doctrine will almost always defeat guilds that lack the cohesion to tell their players what to do with their time. 


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On 3/13/2019 at 4:01 PM, miraluna said:

I am not really interested in playing a  PvP game where powerful gear is based on how much money you put in (paytowin) OR how much time you put in (grindtowin). I was hoping for a game about pvp skill and map strategy, with a strong crafting economy to support

 

If gear didn't have a noticeable impact on gameplay, not many people would bother crafting it. Then why would there ever be an in-game economy?

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8 hours ago, TheMap said:

Unfortunately until more newer players get access to the higher end gear, they will be a non-factor in the grand scheme of things. People who have been here from the get of this iteration of the game have an advantage. It isn't all knowledge based either.  Some really silly builds exist currently due to the imbalance of gear distribution. Once the gear gaps become non-existent some of these "my build is great/meta" will go away.

 

But it is almost all knowledge-based. You have guys like Paindotcom complaining about people making beneficial harvesting armor, and yet beneficial harvest has existed in its current state for longer than I can remember.

The people who actually test, yes I mean test like the boring way of trying anything and everything, not test as in  "log in and treat this like a game", the first group will have a distinct knowledge advantage because they took the time to learn the ins and outs of the game.

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14 hours ago, ZYBAK said:

The biggest divide I see between new players and veteran players is that many veteran players are slaves to the meta classes and group compositions.

The reality of class balance right now is that a mediocre skilled double healer group stacked with meta classes and builds is going to completely decimate a significantly better geared and skilled group.

Combine this with the fact that the people stacking meta groups also generally have more experience in the game and better gear and you've got a real have and have-nots situation.

 

It's weird, I've come to observe the exact same phenomena you have and yet the conclusion I came to is that I should strive to form groups up with classes that synergize to do what we need to accomplish.

Are you advocating that people should be able to win with any group comp as long as they have better gear?

I'm sure it was no accident that you use the negatively connoted term "slave" but I think it would be more appropriate to suggest that some players are more interesting in being successful in their efforts rather than looking cool or playing whatever they want at any time.

Are you salty that you can't win every fight as fae assassin? Or that chaos can't win every campaign with 75% of the players being fae assassins? Because damn that is sure what it feels like from my point of view, and is half the reason I roam as a ranger lately.

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