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Andius

A Few Questions Raised By Playing Last Night

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Posted (edited)

1. Weapons and Classes 
I know in the early playtests it seemed there were multiple weapon options for every class. Now it seems weapon choices are extremely restricted by class (Champions and great axes, clerics and hammer+shield etc.) Though apparently some restrictions can be lifted by adopting certain disciplines (Even though those disciplines don't state so in their description which really should be updated.) So my question is this:

Are these weapon restrictions reflective of the desired mechanics of the final game, or is there a particular reason they are so restrictive right now?

2. Character Attributes

So as you level you can pump more points into strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence and spirit to receive various benefits. I have two questions about this:

A. Are there diminishing returns on attribute returns? Does raising an attribute from 50 to 75 give the same boost and states as raising it from 150 to 175?
B. Is there a "level cap" for vessels or can we potentially keep feeding into these attributes forever?

3. Crafting Skills vs. Crafting Disciplines 
So I've noticed we have an EVE like training system for leveling a lot of skills as was promised. We also have Disciplines and Talents we can use to augment our characters. My question is this:

Suppose we max out a crafting skill tree such as blacksmithing with our character skills, and also have the major and minor Blacksmithing Discipline. Does having blacksmithing maxed in skills render this redundant, or, does that mean you are a better blacksmith than anyone who hasn't done that?

4. Vessel Levels
Simple question here. Is grinding for Vessel levels a permanent game feature, or a placeholder feature?

5. Duration of Alpha Characters
A. How often are alpha characters wiped?

B. I assume nothing we do at this stage of the game affects anything but our player skills going into future iterations? 

6. Faction Balance / Switching Factions
I locked into the Chaos faction last night and immediately regretted it when I saw how one sided the fight against Order was. AKA Order is barely a factor in this fight and it's just balance vs. chaos.

A. While I understand and agree with preventing people from switching to a winning faction mid-campaign or looking to see which factions have the most players, are there any options being considered to allow players to switch to a losing faction or a "Put me in the weakest faction" option in faction selection?
B.  Are we locked into one faction for the duration of a campaign or do accounts become locked to a faction?

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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51 minutes ago, Andius said:

I locked into the Chaos faction last night and immediately regretted it when I saw how one sided the fight against Order was. AKA Order is barely a factor in this fight and it's just balance vs. chaos.

A. While I understand and agree with preventing people from switching to a winning faction mid-campaign or looking to see which factions have the most players, are there any options being considered to allow players to switch to a losing faction or a "Put me in the weakest faction" option in faction selection?

 

That is a pretty cool idea, and kudos to you for wanting to do that.

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9 minutes ago, Andius said:

1. Weapons and Classes 
I know in the early playtests it seemed there were multiple weapon options for every class. Now it seems weapon choices are extremely restricted by class (Champions and great axes, clerics and hammer+shield etc.) Though apparently some restrictions can be lifted by adopting certain disciplines (Even though those disciplines don't state so in their description which really should be updated.) So my question is this:

Are these weapon restrictions reflective of the desired mechanics of the final game, or is there a particular reason they are so restrictive right now?

It’s mostly because of animations. The main reason given about why Templars can only use Greatswords is because they use a close 2 handed grip, and no other weapon is designed for that. I imagine there will still be weapon locks (Don’t expect Duelists to wield 2-handed maces anytime soon). I don’t believe these restrictions are reflective of the final game, but time constraints will be the deciding factor.

16 minutes ago, Andius said:

2. Character Attributes

So as you level you can pump more points into strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence and spirit to receive various benefits. I have two questions about this:

A. Are there diminishing returns on attribute returns? Does raising an attribute from 50 to 75 give the same boost and states as raising it from 150 to 175?
B. Is there a "level cap" for vessels or can we potentially keep feeding into these attributes forever??

A: There are no diminishing returns, going form 50 to 75 is the same boost as going from 150 to 175, though all Attributes have stat caps between 200 and 350 (which can be raised slightly with better vessels)

B: Vessels are capped at level 30, basic vessels get 87 points total, from 1-30 (3 per level, excluding level 1). Legendary vessels are probably between 116 and 145 points (assuming 4 or 5 points per level, excluding level 1). But again, each attribute has a stat cap, and some stats that feed from attributes may have an even lower cap, so trying to max out an attribute may not always be the most efficient.

25 minutes ago, Andius said:

3. Crafting Skills vs. Crafting Disciplines 
So I've noticed we have an EVE like training system for leveling a lot of skills as was promised. We also have Disciplines and Talents we can use to augment our characters. My question is this:

Suppose we max out a crafting skill tree such as blacksmithing with our character skills, and also have the major and minor Blacksmithing Discipline. Does having blacksmithing maxed in skills render this redundant, or, does that mean you are a better blacksmith than anyone who hasn't done that??

There’s a cap on Blacksmithing Assembly, Experimentation, and Experimentation Points (100, 100, 18, I think). Full Blacksmithing training doesn’t reach the cap, so using the Blacksmithing Discipline and Blacksmithing gear is required to reach those caps. Additionally, Blacksmithing recipes are tied to the Blacksmithing Major Discipline, so you’ll need that anyway. The Blacksmithing Minor increases the Experimentation and Experimentation Points cap, iirc (have never actually used it, only glanced at it when it was introduced). Some races also have stat boosts to Blacksmithing, but those only really matter in the early game (and it makes it easier to stat cap), but the bottom line is that using the Major Discipline doesn’t make you an insurmountablly better blacksmith (unless compared to a non-blacksmith :P)

32 minutes ago, Andius said:

4. Vessel Levels
Simple question here. Is grinding for Vessel levels a permanent game feature, or a placeholder feature?

Depending on your definition of grind, probably. The Devs want some way to ease new players into the game and understanding their class. Talents (and by extension, levels) do that for them. There will be more diverse ways for gaining experience than just killing and sacrificing (like, harvesting, crafting, and doing objectives), but leveling Vessels is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

36 minutes ago, Andius said:

5. Duration of Alpha Characters
A. How often are alpha characters wiped?

B. I assume nothing we do at this stage of the game affects anything but our player skills going into future iterations? 

A: Every couple of months. The devs try not to wipe, but sometimes they are necessary (database changes or whatnot). There will definitely be a wipe at the start of Alpha testing, but I wouldn’t expect another wipe until early summer (not I’m not a dev and Tyrant might do a wipe tomorrow just to spite me for saying this :P)

B: If by player skill you mean knowledge of game mechanics and such, then yes. There will be a final wipe before the game soft launches, but all the knowledge and experience you gain from playing now and future iterations you’ll keep! 😛 

43 minutes ago, Andius said:

6. Faction Balance / Switching Factions
I locked into the Chaos faction last night and immediately regretted it when I saw how one sided the fight against Order was. AKA Order is barely a factor in this fight and it's just balance vs. chaos.

A. While I understand and agree with preventing people from switching to a winning faction mid-campaign or looking to see which factions have the most players, are there any options being considered to allow players to switch to a losing faction or a "Put me in the weakest faction" option in faction selection?
B.  Are we locked into one faction for the duration of a campaign or do accounts become locked to a faction?

A: I have heard no mention of such a mechanic. In ther current iteration of the campaign select screen, you can view the campaign map and the leaderboards of the campaign without actually joining, so you could use that to see which faction is behind (and which is ahead). No clue if this is just a pre-alpha thing, or if they’ll fix that interaction in later iterations

B: Your account is locked to that faction on that campaign once you select it (even if you unlock all your vessels and try to rejoin). When a new campaign starts you can pick a new faction. If you ask nicely enough, the Devs can use their Dev powers to switch your account to a different faction.

 

Hope this answers all your questions! :D 


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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I appreciate the detailed response.

This does answer my questions. While I'm not a huge fan of the grinding I know they did say there would be some skills raised by grinding and most would be raised passively (EVE Style) and this system does deliver upon that promise. Also a level cap of 30 makes it seem like grinding is something you'll only have to worry about on your first campaign or two of maining a particular character which makes the idea of grinding pretty bearable.

So your response does raise two major questions for me:

1. Can attribute/talent point ever be redistributed or is super important to have your final character build planned out before you begin investing those points?
2.  These placeholder Disciplines seem incredibly simple to switch. Do we have any idea of how difficult that process is intended to become upon final release? 


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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1. Only way to change them is to level a new vessel.

2. Disciplines will eventually be permanent once applied to a vessel. They also will not be as easy to acquire, either requiring or being rare drops themselves. They’ve also recently talked about needing to unlock their abilities similar to talent trees. Expect significant changes to disciplines, their ease of swapping today is for testing purposes.


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Oof. Glad I'm alpha testing because I see a lot of newer players doing a lot of rerolls to come up with builds they'll be satisfied with. I just hope that once I perfect my builds after going through enough wipe cycles that the nerf/buff cycle doesn't have me rerolling characters anyway. I hope the "Every choice is 100% set in stone" stance is something they review even if character changes are a slow process rather than the standard instant reset. 


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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its fun being order despite not owning any keeps, it feels like dregs which is what we all want, i just wish we could put thralls in other crafting tables so keeps werent the only option for crafting 


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11 hours ago, Staff said:

its fun being order despite not owning any keeps, it feels like dregs which is what we all want, i just wish we could put thralls in other crafting tables so keeps werent the only option for crafting 

Yeah I like the "target rich environment" vibe of going order. For now I'm mainly just learning the game, crafting system, deciding what class/build I want to main etc. But I think if this "Order is Always Weakest" thing is a recurring theme I'll be coming over that side next campaign. :)


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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23 hours ago, Andius said:

how one sided the fight against Order

This was necessary. Order is too powerful already as we are. This doesn't nerf us, it only more equally aligns us in the factional power curve. 

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