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Sloppy

Rewards for defending outposts.

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INTRODUCTION

I'm looking forward to the upcoming changes to forts and outposts made in the last monthly video.

It was mentioned the outposts were for groups of 1-3 players to fight over.

Zones currently have about 10-12 mini areas built into them.  For example the spider area, the zombie area, the forest with the hellcats etc...

Each one of these mini zones should only have 1 outpost associated with them.

The outposts should have 1 npc guard protecting them (Something that takes a badly geared player 2 mins or a well geared player 30 seconds to kill).

When the guard is killed whoever gets the final hit becomes leader of the outpost.

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A REASON TO DEFEND

Currently people run from outpost to outpost capping,  while the enemy faction has a small group across the zone doing the same thing.  It's currently almost more incentive to avoid a fight.

We should be trying to promote small scale pvp, not avoid it.

25% of everything looted or harvested in the mini zone should go into a chest at the outpost and only the owner of the outpost can loot it.

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A REASON TO TAKE IT

Attackers can take the outpost at any time.  (I know timers may be put on outpost but I'd prefer they didn't)

If they take it the owner of the outpost has a 5 minute window to get 50% of what's in the chest and the other 50% goes to the chest in the nearest fort.

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PREVENTING ABUSE OF THE MECHANIC

There's people out there that will put a spy in an alternate faction, (This system isn't only for the faction game, but will adapt to all frms) just to keep the loot safe by flipping the point back and forth.  So we need to do some stuff to protect against abuse.

1.  As mentioned above, send 50% of the loot to the fort.

2.  To prevent people from pulling the loot the moment the enemy engages the guard, we lock everyone out of the chest while the guard is damaged.

3.  After the chest is looted it should not be accessable for a random amount of time between 30 and 90 minutes.  There should be no clock visible, or countdown timer.

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FORTS

NPC fort boss instead of circle.  He becomes vulnerable based on the new siege timing mechanic coming soon.

The player with the last hit on the Boss owns the keep, and gets a 5 minute window to loot the fort chest.  Only 50% of the loot sent to the fort was in the chest, the other 50% was sent to the nearest keep.

Remember there are no outposts in the area around the forts, so they also get 25% of all loot/harvestables put in the chest, plus the extra 50% if any nearby outposts flipped.

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KEEPS

Same mechanics as the fort.  However whoever plants the tree becomes the owner.

50% of all fort loot and 25% of all resources farmed in the keep zone are in the chest.

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CAMPAIGN POINTS AND WINNING THE SERVER

Campaign points should be based on the sacrifice value of all loot earned.

2x points for outposts, 3x for forts and 4x for keeps.

Remove capture bonuses.  They aren't really working properly.

Wait - There is more loot generated in spring, how do we catch up?  10x points for all hunger shard related loot, or killing winter type mobs etc.  Stuff that gets people out into the zones doing stuff.  Those outposts with level 10 hunger shards in the mini zone should be fought over extremely hard.

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IMPORTANT NOTES

1.  This gives pvp'ers a way to earn resources without resorting to hitting nodes.

2.  This gives people a reason to defend what they take and to actively use and protect the area.

3.  This gives pvp'ers a strong reason to defend harvesters in the area they have taken.  Why roll that group of newbies farming spiders when they are paying you 25% of their gold.

4.  More incentive for people in the same faction but of a different guild to grab a different outpost and stay spread out.  Which helps prevent zergs.

5.  A giant pyramid scheme to allow the overlords of the server to benefit.  Ya the rich get richer, but they deserve to be rich when they put in the hard work.

6.  No new resources are being created, harvesters and gold farmers are just getting 25% less, but are being more protected as the pvp pushes away from ganking and more toward outpost fighting.

7.  Too many timers suck.  So if we can keep the timers off the outposts it could be better.  If Darkfall 2, it ended up being called Timerfall because of a similar yet flawed system.

8.  This creates hot spots.  People will naturally flock to the outposts with the best loot.  The hotspots will end up generating most of the campaign points.  So he who controls the hotspots will gain a ton of points for themselves, their guild and their faction.

9.  This mechanic works for guilds, dregs, factions and gods.  All while people do selfish things! :)

===============================================================================================================

TLDR - Take some territory, collect some taxes.  Pvp'ers lock down an area, they profit, while they have a reason to protect newbs and harvesters.

Edited by Sloppy

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I didn't read the whole thing, but what I read seemed bad. I don't see how this promotes small scale fighting. Someone owns the outpost, the person who was lucky enough to get the last hit on the guard, and then 25% of whatever I harvest automatically goes to a chest that only that person can access? Yeah, not happening. What's my incentive to harvest there if I'm going to lose 25% of my stuff? The owner of the outpost may be the same faction, but that doesn't mean we are working together, or that I can trust him to give me my 25%. You say the chest is locked while the guard is damage, but the owner can take stuff out at any other time. If people are harvesting there and the outpost doesn't get attacked, the owner can just take everything out of the chest and recall.

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1 hour ago, Trundle said:

I didn't read the whole thing, but what I read seemed bad. I don't see how this promotes small scale fighting. Someone owns the outpost, the person who was lucky enough to get the last hit on the guard, and then 25% of whatever I harvest automatically goes to a chest that only that person can access? Yeah, not happening. What's my incentive to harvest there if I'm going to lose 25% of my stuff? The owner of the outpost may be the same faction, but that doesn't mean we are working together, or that I can trust him to give me my 25%. You say the chest is locked while the guard is damage, but the owner can take stuff out at any other time. If people are harvesting there and the outpost doesn't get attacked, the owner can just take everything out of the chest and recall.

As you mentioned you didn't read the whole thing.  There's a bunch of words lower down that deal with exactly what you're worried about.

You aren't really losing 25% of your stuff.  You never see the stuff, as it is spawns in the chest.  The economy isn't really balanced yet anyways, so think of it as a 25% bonus to your stuff is in that chest.

You can move to a different spot, farther away from the keep or forts and take an outpost that you control.  (anti zerg mechanic)

What are you going to do to help get that new stuff?  As you move up to forts and keeps, the payday gets bigger for the pvp'ers.

At it's core the game is about conflict and this drives conflict.

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I like that you are thinking of new things but have concerns about some of your proposal.


1.  Last hit mechanics are easily abused and generally don't fairly reward the amount of effort people put in to the goal.

2.  Not a fan of a 25% tax on labor as an incentive for other people to do stuff,  just have the chest spawn materials that players will want instead of penalizing harvesters.

3.  Fort Boss sounds interesting but not with a "last hit wins" systems.   

4.  Sieges take a lot of work, rewarding a single individual that plants the tree for all that work isn't a good incentive.

5.  If you rework the Campaign system to reflect sacrifice values of items in chests, how would you reward individual leaderboard players for their activities during Outpost, Forts and Keeps ?

Important Notes:

The idea of chests at PIOs would help reward the effort capturing them but would be better if they exploded like harvesting a motherload with maybe even a slight increase range of the throw so all the players that contributed would have a chance to vacuum up loot.

Timers or schedule Bane systems are important for strategic resources like Keep that take great effort to take and maintain / upgrade because real life prevents people from defending their holdings and off hours sieging with no defenders doesn't actually encourage PvP it avoids it.

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1 hour ago, Sloppy said:

 

As you mentioned you didn't read the whole thing.  There's a bunch of words lower down that deal with exactly what you're worried about.

You aren't really losing 25% of your stuff.  You never see the stuff, as it is spawns in the chest.  The economy isn't really balanced yet anyways, so think of it as a 25% bonus to your stuff is in that chest.

You can move to a different spot, farther away from the keep or forts and take an outpost that you control.  (anti zerg mechanic)

What are you going to do to help get that new stuff?  As you move up to forts and keeps, the payday gets bigger for the pvp'ers.

At it's core the game is about conflict and this drives conflict.

Point #6 above seems to contradict that:

6.  No new resources are being created, harvesters and gold farmers are just getting 25% less, but are being more protected as the pvp pushes away from ganking and more toward outpost fighting.

So, 25% of the stuff that would have dropped for me is now going into that chest, where only the owner of the outpost can get it.

And I don't see where you've addressed how the resources from the chest get distributed. If I'm a fully trained and geared harvester, I'm not going to be happy splitting 25% of my resources with someone who has zero training or gear, assuming I can even get a share of those resources if I'm not the owner of the outpost. 

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Seems like a good starting point I don't think the previous posters get the 25% from harvesters. I think you are saying that now if you skin a pig and get 12 leather say . You would still get 12 leather but also 4 leather would go into the nearest out post? Potential for chests at out post would be great. IMO ANd also late night capping would be less beneficial

 

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16 hours ago, bear said:

Seems like a good starting point I don't think the previous posters get the 25% from harvesters. I think you are saying that now if you skin a pig and get 12 leather say . You would still get 12 leather but also 4 leather would go into the nearest out post? Potential for chests at out post would be great. IMO ANd also late night capping would be less beneficial

 

Exactly Bear.  Originally I said take 25% away so as not to unbalance the current economy.  But the economy isn't really balanced yet, so they can make more resources instead to ease the tears.

The whole point is to give people stuff to fight over.  A reason to stay and defend something they took, and to actively use the territory.

 

1 hour ago, dolmar said:

instead of last hit mechanic how about just open a chest and let people spam it to try to loot it ? or the loot is on the boss guard that defends the circle?

I suggested last hit mechanic because it was the easiest thing to code.

For sure it could be switched to be on the guards inventory.  This could could create some free for all fun.

You could also force people to drive a caravan with the loot on the back to the nearest fort they own, or a million other things.

The idea is the kick-off point for so much action and fun.

I'm not sure what the dev's actually had in mind.  Maybe they already have some sort of plan for taxes and loot from these pvp hotspots.

 

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3 hours ago, dolmar said:

instead of last hit mechanic how about just open a chest and let people spam it to try to loot it ? or the loot is on the boss guard that defends the circle?

The could make it like the bank.  Everyone who opens it, opens "their" own version of it, and gets one amount of whatever is inside.

If the items inside spawn only on flipping, or on a schedule, then it would give people a reason to go visit all the territory they held because they would know there was something in the chest for them.

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