Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
Stubbs

Make Keeps/Forts More Valuable & Fix Fall/Winter Harvesting

Recommended Posts

1. Make Spirit Bank only available in the Temple.

2. Start all Keeps at R6 at the beginning of a campaign

3. Start all Forts at R4 at the beginning of a campaign

4. Link immediately adjacent parcels to Keeps/Forts in terms of overall Rank.

5. Set all nodes/mobs in the Keep and linked parcels to R3-R6. Set all nodes/mobs in the Fort and linked parcels to R1-R4

6. Give us a mechanic to rank up the Forts/Keeps.

  • Maybe a sacrifice mechanic.
  • Maybe sacrifice shards from hunger crystals give a ton of value for this.

7. Gate the rank ups by season.

  • Spring Max = Keep:R7, Fort:R5
  • Summer Max = Keep:R8, Fort:R6
  • Fall Max = Keep:R9, Fort:R7
  • Winter Max = Keep:R10, Fort:R8

8. Rank up the nodes/mobs in the immediate and linked parcels with the central fort/keep.

9. Maybe de-rank forts/keeps when they switch hands by 1 rank down to the starting rank as a minimum.

This will:

  • Give players more investment in the keeps/forts. Having a bank nearby is now vital.
  • Make forts/keeps valuable to capture and hold even late in the campaign when your faction may have very little chance of winning.
  • Help alleviate instances of certain resources (hungershards/aurochs/certain graveyard types) having very few/no high ranking spots.
  • Make it worthwhile for harvesters to harvest in Fall/Winter. As Plentiful resource pips go down, the quality of the resource nodes goes up.
  • Make Harvest specialization more important. Tons of 5-pip high-rank nodes in spring devalues this training.

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Stubbs said:

This will:

  • Help alleviate instances of certain resources (hungershards/aurochs/certain graveyard types) having very few/no high ranking spots.

There are no animal spawns of any sort on keep/fort parcels at this time, and only randomly in adjacent parcels.

 

57 minutes ago, Stubbs said:

Make it worthwhile for harvesters to harvest in Fall/Winter. As Plentiful resource pips go down, the quality of the resource nodes goes up.

A skilled harvester suffers little effect from fall & winter. I'm at plentiful 5 year round using a kebab in fall & adding a potion in winter. Winter is actually the BEST time for me to farm, since the fair weather harvesters are not competing with me, and the gankers that feed on them are gone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, VaMei said:

There are no animal spawns of any sort on keep/fort parcels at this time, and only randomly in adjacent parcels.

 

 

That is why I suggested linking adjacent parcels to the system. Not perfect, but better than now.

If you add up all of the adjacent parcels of all of the forts and keeps, that is a whole lot of R8-R10 nodes and mobs by the end of the campaign that are generally pretty worthless R3-R4 now.

 

3 hours ago, VaMei said:

A skilled harvester suffers little effect from fall & winter. I'm at plentiful 5 year round using a kebab in fall & adding a potion in winter. Winter is actually the BEST time for me to farm, since the fair weather harvesters are not competing with me, and the gankers that feed on them are gone.

2

Those fair weather harvesters and gankers are what keep the world from being empty. They are what cause pvp to happen outside of seiges. As the campaigns get longer, how long will it take for people to go from only logging in during sieges to just not logging in at all? We are already seeing this happen during fall/winter in 2 week campaigns. It will only get worse when winter lasts a month.

An empty world is just plain not good for the overall health of the game. 

 

Edited by Stubbs

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I expressed this in chat the other day after coming across Fall for the first time, and was left genuinely baffled by the season system.

Whilst this is largely an aspect of the fact we're in alpha - but the market of things to do with gold is lacking. But whenever I had down time from doing other stuff, and even when I just wanted to burn some time - I'd harvest, using pots and food, I could get to good harvesting potential, and get some good stuff.

I wasn't able to finish gathering the resources for a set, and was basically left high and dry - i could no longer reach these high pips, the rarer loots were now just entirely impossible for me to attain, and even blue, was significantly harder, with maybe 1/2 ores coming out at the end, rather than significantly higher quantities of blue, along with other qualities were available the days before.

Ultimately, I felt the same as some in this thread, that this system actively discouraged the new players, whilst having no real tangible effect on the veterans.

I certainly, as of right now, seems like a mechanic that actively pushes people away from the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To elaborate on this when it's not midnight, and I'm not laying on a bed in a hostel.

The problem that I have with this system is that it feels in its current incarnation, and with the current system of only one ongoing campaign, like it punishes new players excessively. Multiple campaigns may entirely leave this criticism defunct.

During the first 2 seasons it's possible for me to hit 4/5 pips as a new player utilizing food buffs/potions etc - During the winter months, it is impossible (It may actually be possible, at which point this changes to, it becomes unreasonable) for a new players to reach these pips.

An experienced harvester will be able to hit 4/5 pips during the early months with no consumables, and will have to use consumables during the winter months.

Gathering is rather obviously a fundamental part of the gaming experience, and the problem that I feel personally, we encounter in this situation, is that whilst you obviously are "gaining" via investment into the harvesting lines, it doesn't feel like it.

You can invest weeks into gathering, and congratulations, you can do something that you could do weeks ago, weather permitting - It doesn't really feel new, exciting or rewarding, it feels like i've spent weeks of time moving towards being able to do what I could always do, but now I can do it whilst it's snowing.

Another pitfall of the gathering system being so integral means that, I simply don't feel any motivation to harvest during the months where reaching the higher pips is possible - Which, ultimately as it stands just leaves me with no will to play, no will to play means I won't log in, and not logging in means I'm no longer a potential target for someone out hunting, leading to a less populous game, and PvP ecosystem.

Whilst I don't claim to have an answer, and *touch wood* hopefully the season system will see further fleshing out, I can't help but feel like the gathering lines should be more focussed around additional yield and efficiency (which they already are to an extent) - Rather than working to block players from entire tiers of harvesting materials during off-seasons without serious investment.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/24/2019 at 8:10 PM, Silverbranch said:

I expressed this in chat the other day after coming across Fall for the first time, and was left genuinely baffled by the season system.

Whilst this is largely an aspect of the fact we're in alpha - but the market of things to do with gold is lacking. But whenever I had down time from doing other stuff, and even when I just wanted to burn some time - I'd harvest, using pots and food, I could get to good harvesting potential, and get some good stuff. 

I wasn't able to finish gathering the resources for a set, and was basically left high and dry - i could no longer reach these high pips, the rarer loots were now just entirely impossible for me to attain, and even blue, was significantly harder, with maybe 1/2 ores coming out at the end, rather than significantly higher quantities of blue, along with other qualities were available the days before.

Ultimately, I felt the same as some in this thread, that this system actively discouraged the new players, whilst having no real tangible effect on the veterans.

I certainly, as of right now, seems like a mechanic that actively pushes people away from the game.

The benefits of training harvesting lines go FAR beyond just having those extra pips. Your yields, due to stacking harvest critical chance are better, your tools last significantly longer, and in many cases its basically the only way to get reliable drops of certain rare mats like gems, minerals, femurs etc. You aren't training merely to "do the same thing you did in spring" You're significantly better at it in any season under any conditions. Training harvesting is both a significant overall buff AND a window of opportunity extention.

If you need more than one kebab to reach 5 pips in winter, you're not a trained harvester. Leadership training is literally free. And you don't have to do it yourself. You just join a group. If you don't have someone with harvesting leadership available you'll need a kebab and a potion. These are hands down the easiest consumable items to acquire in massive stacks in the game. If you can't find (any rank) of meat, wood, stone, water, and metal in the trivial amounts required to make buffs you've got bigger problems than what season it is.

If you're not actually trained up in harvesting, why should you be entitled to top end harvesting yields in the dead of winter? That's literally the reason the +plentiful nodes in the harvesting trees exist. Because people that train harvesting are better at harvesting than people that don't. People that are master harvesters can use two buffs (of 3 avaliabile) and harvest in winter like it was spring. People that aren't can't because they didn't choose that role.

The world needs more content, but making harvesting training, buffs, and leadership pointless is a bad way to do it. There are many other systems that aren't harvesting that can be used to fill the content void, like war tribes, that create value for non-harvesters to barter with harvesters for what they need.

Harvesting is fine. Everything else is lacking.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm genuinely not certain why you quite replied when you glossed over my points at best, and flat out ignored them at worse. 

Putting your opinion is fine, but.. Why quote as if you're addressing my message? 

And to reiterate my entire point was that being a "skilled" harvester doesn't feel rewarding, without harvesting dedication reaching 5 pips during the first two seasons is laughably easy, achieving it during the later seasons feels like a chore. 

And yes, dedicating time to the harvesting trees rewards you with the ability to harvest at 5 pips during the winter with greater ease, but my whole point was that even with points invested, to me, this doesn't feel like a reward, I could do this yesterday without that investment, all that reward does is all me to continue doing something I could already do. 

And again, the system feels horrible as a new player, yes your point about there being a lack of alternative time sinks is true, but if you're a fresh player starting out, and you start during the winter months and intend to focus on gathering, then you're left high and dry. 

When I started I had 2-3 days of beneficial stats before we got into the seasons with poor stats. 

I harvested for a while but it didn't feel rewarding, then I gained the knowledge of how to produce potions and food. 

I couldn't gather resources at the same rate as veteran players, they would breeze through multiple nodes each yielding more than mine, in the time it took me to harvest a single node. 

I did however feel like I was contributing, whilst I couldn't even remotely match the yield amounts of my experienced guild mates, I could harvest the same materials, and contribute them to the greater good. 

Cue the negative seasons, and deapite utilising food and potions, I cannot access those higher tiers of materials, and whilst my yield wasn't great before, its now entirely laughable. And locked to the lower tiers, outside of an ellusive roll granting me a single purple, when a day before each node would regularly give me multiple epics with the chance of legendary. 

Yes, given time harvesting training will eventually rectify this, and touch wood, multiple campaigns means a new player will never need to join a winter campaign. But as it stands if you walk this path as I did, it's incredibly easy to see why a player, most notably a new player, would lose the will to interact with a huge portion of the game, potentially their primary portion of the game, based upon the current season system. 

</Wall of text>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Silverbranch said:

I'm genuinely not certain why you quite replied when you glossed over my points at best, and flat out ignored them at worse. 

Putting your opinion is fine, but.. Why quote as if you're addressing my message? 

And to reiterate my entire point was that being a "skilled" harvester doesn't feel rewarding, without harvesting dedication reaching 5 pips during the first two seasons is laughably easy, achieving it during the later seasons feels like a chore. 

And yes, dedicating time to the harvesting trees rewards you with the ability to harvest at 5 pips during the winter with greater ease, but my whole point was that even with points invested, to me, this doesn't feel like a reward, I could do this yesterday without that investment, all that reward does is all me to continue doing something I could already do. 

And again, the system feels horrible as a new player, yes your point about there being a lack of alternative time sinks is true, but if you're a fresh player starting out, and you start during the winter months and intend to focus on gathering, then you're left high and dry. 

There's more to harvesting than just the plentiful stats. Crit chance and amount. Beneficial harvest change, amount and duration. Reduced tool decay and increased damage against nodes. Increased bag space, once it's working. The ability to harvest gems, minerals, hunger shards, blood, bone, heartwood, etc. Not needing food or potions to hit 5 plentiful in spring and summer. There's a huge difference between a fully trained and geared harvester and an untrained, ungeared player, even in spring.

For new players, I wouldn't judge it based on your experience. You joined a campaign that was only 2 weeks long. There were only 2 campaigns running and both started at the same time. You had no choice regarding what season you started in. New players will have more campaigns to choose from. I'm sure as they continue to work on the new player experience, the game will do a better job of directing new players to newer campaigns, rather than older campaigns that are already in fall and winter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Silverbranch said:

but if you're a fresh player starting out, and you start during the winter months and intend to focus on gathering, then you're left high and dry. 

We're not playing the fully realized game, we're play-testing a pre-alpha environment.

When the game goes live there will be multiple concurrent campaigns. New players will not be limited to joining a campaign in winter. In fact I doubt joining a campaign will be possible after a certain point, e.g. fall equinox.

I also strongly suspect that there will areas of the game specifically set up to be new player friendly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

You're saying that pips are literally the only reason to train harvesting trees. They're not. The difference in yields for 5 pips on a newbie versus 5 pips on a master harvester is immense. You're not complaining about them because there's not a thing on your screen telling you "maximum is 5 and you are not at that number"

You're saying its some massive undertaking in training time or farming for buffs to get 5 pip yields in winter without skills. It isn't. Its actually super easy and quick to train and farm. +Pips from training is primarily a convenience feature. It lets you rely less on buffs and leadership. You need these if you haven't leveled harvesting by design because you've leveled something else that generates value in stead so you have to trade with or cooperate with others.

I'd like to spawn in day one and have the full benefit of a mastery in combat  trees. I'm sure that would make new players feel great too, for a while, until they get bored. There's a reason we don't do that as well.

 

So I'll reiterate what I said before because I directly addressed your points before and I will do so again.

 

Harvesting is fine. The rest of the content needs to step up.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Silverbranch said:

Cue the negative seasons, and deapite utilising food and potions, I cannot access those higher tiers of materials, and whilst my yield wasn't great before, its now entirely laughable. And locked to the lower tiers, outside of an ellusive roll granting me a single purple, when a day before each node would regularly give me multiple epics with the chance of legendary. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the idea behind the seasons is to stock up in spring and summer, and fight in fall and winter. Obviously that's not a strict demarcation, but if you harvest enough in spring and summer, then you shouldn't need nearly as much in fall and winter. With the campaigns only being 2 weeks long, however, you aren't really seeing this dynamic play out. Imagine a campaign that is 6 months long. Spring and summer last for 3 months. You won't do as well as a fully trained harvester, but you should be able to get enough to last you through fall and winter, for the most part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...