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Vesperre

Sustaining PVP (non-Siege) -> War Currency.

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Hi,

From what I'm seeing lately in CF, everyone logs in around 8pm  in their own siege zone (to zone block) or the neutral city to go offensive.  The sieges trees are downed and then people log off and that ends pvp for the night (mostly).    There's no incentive to go around capping other forts and outposts (except to perhaps help your faction get a few more points) cause in the end your likely to get the same reward anyhow.

What I'd like to see is a system like SWTOR, WOW or WAoR where you are rewarded a war currency for participating in PvP both siege related  and open world.  With that currency you can go to a faction quartermaster and buy items (i.e. Hunger Shards...grrrrrrr) or other pvp gear add-ons.  You could have really expensive rewards like unique player housing or mounts.  These rewards could even be campaign related (i.e. related to the God) and be time sensitive so you really have incentive to build your pool to buy that specific god related item (Zaleena's  Pendant).

Give people a reason to fight more, you'll get more participation.  I would go cap forts and outposts if I knew that it meant something more for me in the long run.  Also, you could give bonus points to those who finish in the top 5-> 50-> 100 or Faction.

Want me to PVP?  Show me the money!

Cheers,

Vesperre  

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1 hour ago, Vesperre said:

Hi,

From what I'm seeing lately in CF, everyone logs in around 8pm  in their own siege zone (to zone block) or the neutral city to go offensive.  The sieges trees are downed and then people log off and that ends pvp for the night (mostly).    There's no incentive to go around capping other forts and outposts (except to perhaps help your faction get a few more points) cause in the end your likely to get the same reward anyhow.

What I'd like to see is a system like SWTOR, WOW or WAoR where you are rewarded a war currency for participating in PvP both siege related  and open world.  With that currency you can go to a faction quartermaster and buy items (i.e. Hunger Shards...grrrrrrr) or other pvp gear add-ons.  You could have really expensive rewards like unique player housing or mounts.  These rewards could even be campaign related (i.e. related to the God) and be time sensitive so you really have incentive to build your pool to buy that specific god related item (Zaleena's  Pendant).

Give people a reason to fight more, you'll get more participation.  I would go cap forts and outposts if I knew that it meant something more for me in the long run.  Also, you could give bonus points to those who finish in the top 5-> 50-> 100 or Faction.

Want me to PVP?  Show me the money!

Cheers,

Vesperre  

Well in dregs we will build, plant and own the assets through hard work and we will have to defend what we built or lose it and all of that investment plus whatever capture system is tied to the dregs.  That will place a lot of value on assets.  It worked in SB, I imagine it will work for the dregs. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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I loved Shadowbane, and I cannot wait to see the Dregs ruleset applied to a campaign or three. 

That said - we cannot lean on that crutch to say it is enough to motivate the majority of players that we need in/around this community in order to make the game feel truly alive.

My suggestions:

1. Keeps should worth less(than they currently are), and/or Forts/Encampments should be increased in their worth.

2. Love the idea of a PvP/Activity currency, even if it could just be turned in for gold, that can help you buy some basic resources, and further contribute to the economy while just being out there PvPing. I especially would love it if this was rewarded every 12-24 hours based on how much damage, healing, or crafting in campaign (use sacrifice value of equipment made) and then could be turned in. Shoot after all that was said, maybe just a gold reward based on in game activity, not to dissimilar from killing mobs, but related to PvP/In Campaign actions taken to support PvP.

3. Would love to see a series of "activities" dedicated to the gods, that results in you being able to sacrifice to a specific god, with a chance to roll for an item. These activities could be things that support people to be out farming in the world, and subject to getting jumped. They could be as simple as "Take 5 encampments" or "Deal 10000 damage/healing to players" or "Craft 10 Uncommon or better quality items" or "Roll higher than 75% when experimenting, while in a Fort, with at least 6 pips" or even better "Craft a weapon at X fort, of at least Y quality" and when you turn in that sword, you get a weapon additive that you can use toward a crafting your next weapon.

4. Caravans and such have a huge amount of potential to add value to the game in people will want to be out farming for a caravan, and protecting it, so that will drive PvP activity.


Ultimately - you must create choice, variety, and scarcity in the game all at the same time. Different ways to play to get to a similar result, different levels of risk for adrenaline purposes, and unique ways to get unique things. Regularly drive people out into the campaign world, and outside of the safer places. This has to be appealing to the hardcore and the slightly less hardcore at the same time.

Lastly - As someone who used to be a hardcore gamer, but now a father and a professional,  I need something I can log into, grab a friend or three and go accomplish something in an hour or two. The above systems encourage that.

Thanks for reading.

Zen

 

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Posted (edited)

On mobile and can't be bothered to quote.

I think all of these ideas are awesome coming from quite a few PVP games. People want rankings or rewards and the like to stay vested in PVP games. Remove the KDA from the scoreboard as it doesn't tell the big picture (insert lame excuse for me not wanting everyone to see how many times I died to some stupid buggy mechanic) and put in a faction rewards type ranking system based on activity other than just circle standing, sort of like old DAOC. Of course kills matter, but combine it all together and make sure of course healing is not left out as it is now or no one will play support unless they are a  (insert clever adjective here) like me.  

 

I would suggest even tokens to purchase the different quality additives that can be added to armour and weapons to make you more viable, or even siege equipment, potions, bandages or what have you. Hell I would pay PVP tokens for bon tibbers so I didn't have to make an alchemy discipline to craft food.

 I probably repeated some of ops sentiment but just my thoughts. 

Edited by Nueby
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8 hours ago, Mayhem_ said:

This game will most likely remain pretty dead until a "Dregs Ruleset" gets applied

It will remain dead until they do the last skill and item wipe, its hard to get motivated to play when you know that it will all be wiped on launch

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It's pre-alpha, if you're looking for a booming population, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

Recent peaks that I've personally witnessed have been ~120 NA and ~90 EU, which is more than respectable for a game that can't even see official release on the horizon yet.

Games like shadowbane, darkfall etc have shown that whilst these populations aren't ideal, it's possible to slog along on life support with them - Or, in this case, it's possible to give the mechanics a thrashing and see which parts fall off and need reattaching.

Coming into this, population woes are so far down my "list" that they barely register, as long as we have the numbers required to test group content, and the performance of the client (Which peoples constant reports of awful siege FPS suggests we do) then I honestly don't see the problem.

 

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Yes. Please add a system I can use to farm hunger shards with zero risk by killing my alt accounts. Its entirely too much work to go out in to the world, risk getting ganked, and actually train the harvesting lines.

Killing sockpuppets is a great way to encourage people to PvP and won't be abused in any way.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

Yes. Please add a system I can use to farm hunger shards with zero risk by killing my alt accounts. Its entirely too much work to go out in to the world, risk getting ganked, and actually train the harvesting lines.

Killing sockpuppets is a great way to encourage people to PvP and won't be abused in any way.

Unfortunately a sytem to negate this abuse would have to be implemented. 

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3 minutes ago, Nueby said:

Unfortunately a sytem to negate this abuse would have to be implemented. 

You can't systemically negate the abuse of such a system. That's my point. PvP currency systems are bad systems that are more often used to farm alts than actually dole out pvp rewards in every single iteration of such a system, unless the developer hired a literal army of GMs to constantly keep on top of people.

And if you need an army of GMs to keep your system from falling on its face, you probably built a dumb system.

I'd rather that money went to developing the game than propping up a poorly designed game with unnecessary labor costs.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

You can't systemically negate the abuse of such a system. That's my point. PvP currency systems are bad systems that are more often used to farm alts than actually dole out pvp rewards in every single iteration of such a system, unless the developer hired a literal army of GMs to constantly keep on top of people.

And if you need an army of GMs to keep your system from falling on its face, you probably built a dumb system.

I'd rather that money went to developing the game than propping up a poorly designed game with unnecessary labor costs.

this is the worst argument ive seen for keeping our current circle standing meta, eso had this problem and it was never rampant like many of those who use this argument describe, it was always more efficient to go out and actually kill, if you choose to be scum of the earth that gets farmed at my fort farming scheme because you lack the proper skills due to only killing alts then good for you,  this will benefit the average player more then it will harm.


If i'm not outnumbered it's not a real fight.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g?

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Staff said:

this is the worst argument ive seen for keeping our current circle standing meta, eso had this problem and it was never rampant like many of those who use this argument describe, it was always more efficient to go out and actually kill, if you choose to be scum of the earth that gets farmed at my fort farming scheme because you lack the proper skills due to only killing alts then good for you,  this will benefit the average player more then it will harm.

PvP currency being inherently abusable has nothing to do with circle standing.

Making circle standing not the point of world pvp is a better way to fix this problem than implementing a system to bribe people to do a boring thing because they wouldn't otherwise.

Implementing PvP currency means you're just playing the same irritating circle standing game for a different set of numbers and circle standing still sucks.

Also ESO did in fact have a literal army of GMs to police this behavior. As does any game where this model is implemented. Because they have to. Also magical unlootable currencies suck and remove risk from PvP and turn it in to a farming exercise. Also you necessarily poorly made socks on the economic back end of harvesting and crafting. Also you require people to actually have enemies present to progress on the pvp rewards if they are unique to PvP, and it is a fact that there will not be enemies present 100% of the time.

There is a litany of problems with PvP currency systems and why they don't place nice with an economy like crowfall's, and play fine with an economy where you grind mobs for soulbound stat sticks of ever increasing power.

Intrinsically rewarding PvP is a bad idea. You don't magic items in to existance just because you killed a guy in an economy that revolves around players harvesting, crafting, breaking, and replacing items. PvP should be a means to an end, not the actual end itself. That end is winning campaigns to export loot, stealing loot, securing your storage of loot, removing gankers from where your guysare getting loot, preventing other people from getting loot, etc.

Currently PvP is doing a poorly made socks job at any of those because of retrieval chests, spirit banking from anywhere, and exports not being affected by campaign results.

If you need a shiny trinket to go gank somebody for the contents of their inventory or to help your team win the campaign, that's not a case for rewarding you for killing people. That's a case for rewarding people for actually filling their inventory or winning campaigns. People in a PvP sandbox game don't need extra incentives to PvP in the middle of a field without context. They need meaningful stuff to fight over.

Edited by PopeUrban

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54 minutes ago, Staff said:

this is the worst argument ive seen for keeping our current circle standing meta

Probably because its not an argument for keeping the circle standing meta.


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13 minutes ago, Jah said:

Probably because its not an argument for keeping the circle standing meta.

I would also say False Dichotomy. Arguing against PvP currency is not arguing for circle standing.

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6 hours ago, Devonic said:

It will remain dead until they do the last skill and item wipe, its hard to get motivated to play when you know that it will all be wiped on launch

That too.....but not as "dead" - personally I am still looking forward to not only what they are showing us to come soon but a lot of things I am "personally guessing at and hoping for"

And while I can't speak for all guilds.....Sh!t, can't even speak for mine.  But pretty damn sure a "Dregs/Guild Ruleset" will Change everything A LOT on its own independent of what whatever other features are at play at the time. 

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4 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

 

Also ESO did in fact have a literal army of GMs to police this behavior. As does any game where this model is implemented. Because they have to. Also magical unlootable currencies suck and remove risk from PvP and turn it in to a farming exercise. Also you necessarily poorly made socks on the economic back end of harvesting and crafting. Also you require people to actually have enemies present to progress on the pvp rewards if they are unique to PvP, and it is a fact that there will not be enemies present 100% of the time.

In 2 years of eso pvp, reaching the rank of legate G2 and claiming emperor multiple times, i have never seen a GM, all behavior was policed by players themselves. Also who said it had to be unlootable, if i kill someone who just killed 10 players and collected 10 pvp points why wouldnt i take the points he had and what i get for killing him? 

 

5 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

 

Intrinsically rewarding PvP is a bad idea. You don't magic items in to existance just because you killed a guy in an economy that revolves around players harvesting, crafting, breaking, and replacing items. PvP should be a means to an end, not the actual end itself. That end is winning campaigns to export loot, stealing loot, securing your storage of loot, removing gankers from where your guysare getting loot, preventing other people from getting loot, etc.

Perhaps we play for different things then, everything i do is a means to an end with that end being better pvp, i could not physically care less about exporting loot, stealing loots, or securing my loot when i can get better and more pvp and be rewarded for it.

 


If i'm not outnumbered it's not a real fight.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g?

 

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Staff I've heard this argument before and I gotta ask, if your focus is simply finding more fights, why do you play a game where the entire reward system, ever since the kickstarter, is predicated on looting people, mobs, and the environment? People say "I just wanna log in and fight dudes just to fight them" and I'm looking around at all of the battle royale games, and shooters, and MOBAs and stuff and thinking "Why are these people playing sandbox MMOs?"

Is it for the bigger fights with more people in them? Is it the combat systems being less twitchy? Why does a person with these values choose a genre poorly built for said values? What makes Staff tick?


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8 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Staff I've heard this argument before and I gotta ask, if your focus is simply finding more fights, why do you play a game where the entire reward system, ever since the kickstarter, is predicated on looting people, mobs, and the environment? People say "I just wanna log in and fight dudes just to fight them" and I'm looking around at all of the battle royale games, and shooters, and MOBAs and stuff and thinking "Why are these people playing sandbox MMOs?"

Is it for the bigger fights with more people in them? Is it the combat systems being less twitchy? Why does a person with these values choose a genre poorly built for said values? What makes Staff tick?

a never ending supply of teriyaki chicken tenders is what makes staff tick, but for pvp, open world is my favorite pvp, like i said, everything is a means to an end with that end being pvp, i like the journey to that end, the theory crafting, group compositions, and overall knowledge that simply doesnt exist in games like LoL and battle royales, and seeing it all come together for a 1vX or a 3vX its beautiful, copying someones build from LoL and seeing it work is not fun, nor is opening a chest on fortnite and seeing a golden scar handed to me overly fun, its hard for me to find a game with pvp thats my taste that isnt open world, i found one in pirate101, despite what it was marketed for its pvp was pretty in depth and its pvp scene compared to its pve went from 0 to 100 real quick but since that game has even less players then crowfall here i am playing what i love


If i'm not outnumbered it's not a real fight.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g?

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Staff said:

a never ending supply of teriyaki chicken tenders is what makes staff tick, but for pvp, open world is my favorite pvp, like i said, everything is a means to an end with that end being pvp, i like the journey to that end, the theory crafting, group compositions, and overall knowledge that simply doesnt exist in games like LoL and battle royales, and seeing it all come together for a 1vX or a 3vX its beautiful, copying someones build from LoL and seeing it work is not fun, nor is opening a chest on fortnite and seeing a golden scar handed to me overly fun, its hard for me to find a game with pvp thats my taste that isnt open world, i found one in pirate101, despite what it was marketed for its pvp was pretty in depth and its pvp scene compared to its pve went from 0 to 100 real quick but since that game has even less players then crowfall here i am playing what i love 

Honestly surprised you're not playing GW2. It was literally designed for people that like all the bits of open world pvp aside from the pesky economy and xp grind.

There's probably a market for exactly what you want based on the number of people I've seen say similar things on the boards. Most games that don't revolve around loot are either too small or too short or too simple to scratch that open world itch. Hell there's probably a viable population for a crowfall campaign type in there somewhere where you just get a buncha free gear and go ham for 3 months without worrying about decay or anything like that.

Edited by PopeUrban

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4 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Honestly surprised you're not playing GW2. It was literally designed for people that like all the bits of open world pvp aside from the pesky economy and xp grind.

There's probably a market for exactly what you want based on the number of people I've seen say similar things on the boards. Most games that don't revolve around loot are either too small or too short or too simple to scratch that open world itch.

i tried GW2 i didnt like it very much even with friends, ESO scratched it for awhile but after my class got nerfed for the 10th update in a row i got tired of it and moved on


If i'm not outnumbered it's not a real fight.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g?

 

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